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Posted: 5/24/2007 9:47:24 PM EDT
It is hard for me to believe that these pro-criminal asshats in OUR .gov
are allowed to stand there and bullshit the entire country, they need to
be removed from office, they need to be removed from this country

chertoff is head of homeland security, he doesn't seem too concerned
I bet we could even find an illegal that would do a better job than him

Chertoff to immigration bill's critics: Get real
Kathy Kiely and David Jackson
USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-05-23-chertoff-immigration_N.htm?csp=34
McLEAN, Va. — Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff on Wednesday said Republican conservatives working to block an immigration bill risk endorsing a "silent amnesty" by insisting on deportations that are "not going to happen."
Chertoff also leveled criticism at liberal immigrant rights advocates, saying they could prolong the anguish of immigrant families by withholding support for legislation that could make them legal.


OUR VIEW: Bill is credible start to formidable task
OPPOSING VIEW: No amnesty for illegals

His warnings came in an 80-minute appearance he and Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez made before the USA TODAY editorial board. The two men's appearance is a preview of a media blitz by the Bush administration as Congress prepares to go on a week-long Memorial Day recess that will give both sides in the emotional debate a chance to sway senators on a bill President Bush wants as part of his legacy.

AUDIO: Chertoff: Accurate ID system is essential

The Homeland Security secretary said he canceled an overseas trip to help. In addition, the president is expected to stump for the bill next week and a "rapid response" team is countering critics, not only in the conventional media but, for the first time, on Internet blogs, said White House communications director Kevin Sullivan. The president's press secretary, Tony Snow, already has debated talk radio host Rush Limbaugh and TV commentator Lou Dobbs, both critics of the bill.

Chertoff acknowledged that there is "a fundamental unfairness" in a bill that permits illegal immigrants to stay. But trying to force them to leave would be impossible, Chertoff said: "We are bowing to reality."

He dismissed the argument of Republican conservatives, such as Rep. Brian Bilbray, R-Calif., who argue that illegal immigrants will leave if strict enforcement of U.S. laws makes it impossible for them to find a job.

"You're not going to replace 12 million people who are doing the work they're currently doing," Chertoff said. "If they don't leave, then you are going to give them silent amnesty. You're either going to let them stay or you're going to be hypocritical."

Bilbray said his idea hasn't worked because "there's been a conscious strategy of not enforcing the law."

Chertoff, whose department has staged a number of recent raids that have resulted in mass roundups of illegal workers and sharp protests from religious groups, warned there will be more if the workers don't get a chance to become legal. "We're going to enforce the law," he said. "People all around the country will be seeing teary-eyed children whose parents are going to be deported."

Both he and Gutierrez warned that major changes could kill the compromise bill.

Kevin Appleby of the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops rejected what he called the "take it or leave it" argument. "The groups who represent those who don't have a voice in the debate want to get the best deal possible," he said.

Gutierrez addressed another controversial aspect of the immigration bill, a program to expand the number of foreigners who can work temporarily in the U.S. The Senate on Thursday voted to reduce the number of guest workers from 400,000 to 200,000 a year, a move Gutierrez called "a bit concerning."

AUDIO: Gutierrez says immigrants needed as workers

The U.S. needs more foreign workers as baby boomers retire, the Commerce secretary said. His department's figures show the population aged 25-54 growing at 0.2% a year while the workforce is growing at 1.2% a year.

"The reality is, we don't have enough people," said Gutierrez, adding that many of the United States' economic competitors, such as France, Germany, Japan and China, will be facing a similar demographic shift. "The big challenge of the 21st century is: who gets the people? Who gets the immigrants?" he said. "We don't appreciate today that these people are coming in for free."
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 9:50:16 PM EDT
How about get a few hundred BIG FUCKING BUSSES...

Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:02:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2007 10:07:49 PM EDT by bastiat]
Bilbray said his idea hasn't worked because "there's been a conscious strategy of not enforcing the law."

That's their plan. Do nothing and claim the problem is too big to solve with border enforcement and deportations. Basically, they're failing to do their job so they can later claim that the situation is so far gone that doing their job wouldn't affect anything.

These people are disgusting. They are sending this country down the river in the hopes of votes and cheap labor.
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
Bilbray said his idea hasn't worked because "there's been a conscious strategy of not enforcing the law."

That's their plan. Do nothing and claim the problem is too big to solve with border enforcement and deportations. Basically, they're failing to do their job so they can later claim that the situation is so far gone that doing their job wouldn't affect anything.

These people are disgusting. They are sending this country down the river in the hopes of votes and cheap labor.


Absolutely right. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is that if we enforced the current laws and went after employers, the problem would go away. We could then bring control and accountability back to immigration... exactly what GWB, the democrats, and ruling elites in general do not want.
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:18:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
Bilbray said his idea hasn't worked because "there's been a conscious strategy of not enforcing the law."

That's their plan. Do nothing and claim the problem is too big to solve with border enforcement and deportations. Basically, they're failing to do their job so they can later claim that the situation is so far gone that doing their job wouldn't affect anything.

These people are disgusting. They are sending this country down the river in the hopes of votes and cheap labor.


Absolutely right. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is that if we enforced the current laws and went after employers, the problem would go away. We could then bring control and accountability back to immigration... exactly what GWB, the democrats, and ruling elites in general do not want.


The strange thing is that they still are going after the LEGAL Immigrants
AND the American Citizens while looking the other way for the illegal aliens

I'm starting to wonder..........what is coming next, they have already proven
that they are completely unconcerned about the Rule Of Law and the Citizens
that support this country with their tax dollars, what do they plan for us next?
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:20:58 PM EDT
Sure we can vote these people out but the next batch is just more of the same. The new population of uneducated Hispanics will vote for the Politician offering the biggest handouts and the Republican party will reinvent itself and swing far to the left of current Democrats inorder to retain power.

I've seen it written and heard it stated, but a Revolution is not going to happen, at least not one brought about and won by our side. My opinion is we will see a complete break down of society. Angry White males will become infuriated with the total disregard for law and loss of Nation and we will see more and more "Nazi extremist" carrying out mass shootings in the news and/or "extremist militia groups" being arrested for stockpiles of illegal weapons and ammo.

I have no faith in America's future, we're pretty much fucked.
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:25:35 PM EDT
Well, since Chertoff and the entire fucking Bush administration is so fucking dumb, let me use small words.

YOU. HAVE. LOST. OUR. SUPPORT.
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:26:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Well, since Chertoff and the entire fucking Bush administration is so fucking dumb, let me use small words.

YOU. HAVE. LOST. OUR. SUPPORT.


looks like bush is going for approval ratings in the single digits.

Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:33:27 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By bastiat:
height=8
Originally Posted By happycynic:
Well, since Chertoff and the entire fucking Bush administration is so fucking dumb, let me use small words.

YOU. HAVE. LOST. OUR. SUPPORT.


looks like bush is going for approval ratings in the single digits.



His approval number will never hit single digits. There are too many people that love to feel the boot on their own neck.

Link Posted: 5/24/2007 10:56:46 PM EDT
How about deporting jerkoff
Link Posted: 5/24/2007 11:12:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Well, since Chertoff and the entire fucking Bush administration is so fucking dumb, let me use small words.

YOU. HAVE. LOST. OUR. SUPPORT.


Yes, quite. Fuck them. There are a lot of things that just aren't going to happen under Chertoff, including blocking the 150000 NON MEXICAN illegal migrants that cross the US/Mexico border each year.

US security and sovereignty is clearly not paramount here.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 12:41:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

AUDIO: Gutierrez says immigrants needed as workers

The U.S. needs more foreign workers as baby boomers retire, the Commerce secretary said. His department's figures show the population aged 25-54 growing at 0.2% a year while the workforce is growing at 1.2% a year.

"The reality is, we don't have enough people," said Gutierrez, adding that many of the United States' economic competitors, such as France, Germany, Japan and China, will be facing a similar demographic shift. "The big challenge of the 21st century is: who gets the people? Who gets the immigrants?" he said. "We don't appreciate today that these people are coming in for free."


They're worried about the demographic shift. They think that if they can import 15+ million new taxpayers, they can prop up the government coffers. What they forget is that the whole reason that employers hire illegals is because they're off the books. What employer of illegals is going to continue to keep his newly minted citizens on the books if he has to pay them legal rates? He'll just sack them and hire the next wave of illegals as they come across the border to wait for the next amnesty
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:07:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2007 4:07:39 AM EDT by SR71]
We can put man on the moon, move thousands and thousands of man, tanks, planes and all other war making material thousands of miles accross sea, BUT we CAN'T deport illegals! Fucking amazing!
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:18:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lert:
What employer of illegals is going to continue to keep his newly minted citizens on the books if he has to pay them legal rates? He'll just sack them and hire the next wave of illegals as they come across the border to wait for the next amnesty


and then we have xx million legal illegals, with few skills, that don't speak english, and are used to third world culture, roaming around the country looking for jobs. they'll feel they were screwed by citizenship, would have been better off illegal, and will have no problem sitting around collecting the government money they are entitled to after the screwing.

this is going to turn out great for everyone.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:19:16 AM EDT
Punish the people who employ them.

When they are un-hireable, they will leave on their own.

Why waste all the time/effort/tax dollars deporting them when you can just make them leave on their own?
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:21:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2007 4:22:05 AM EDT by Dr_Dickie]

Punish the people who employ them.

When they are un-hireable, they will leave on their own.

Why waste all the time/effort/tax dollars deporting them when you can just make them leave on their own?


Yup, the whole deportation thing is a strawman. We do not need to deport them, just cut off the benefits and will deport themselves. If they can sneak in for money, they will sneak back if the money is cut off.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:27:16 AM EDT
"People all around the country will be seeing teary-eyed children whose parents are going to be deported."

Good.

Chertoff is an ass. It's the illegals fault their children are upset not the US government. If the illegals didn't want their children upset they could have obeyd the law.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:32:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By efpeter:
Punish the people who employ them.

When they are un-hireable, they will leave on their own.

Why waste all the time/effort/tax dollars deporting them when you can just make them leave on their own?


Yep, I've been saying for some time that if you fine employers who don't take reasonable steps to verify their employees status $50,000/illegal (MANDATORY), the labor pool will dry up fast.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:35:57 AM EDT
I've been saying it for a while and it seems to be more true every day.

It doesn't matter what some people do as long as they can find a way to spin it so that small children are suffering or they have another equally heartbreaking story.

Truth, Justice, and the American way are just dusty relics from dead white dds.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:38:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:39:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2007 4:43:10 AM EDT by Aim4MyHead]
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:43:46 AM EDT
Hey,

This is the same douche who said:

I understand there's some people who expect anything other than capital punishment is an amnesty.

Yeah. Not only am I a racist bigot for wanting the law enforced, now I am a bloodthirsty Nazi who wants to exterminate the Jews....er....I mean Illegals.

FOAD you POS.

Great work you've done with the Dept. of Homeland Security.

Kevin "Throw the bums out."
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:48:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aim4MyHead:
this is nothing new... look at the total number of arrests on the borders since the 50's and watch the steady decline up until this year. The government does not want to stop it.

J



That's the key! They do not WANT to. We could secure the borders. BP backed by NG could get this done. A fence backed by surveillance does work.

You don't have to "Round Up" Illegals, you can find them when they get pulled over, try to get a job, buy a house, go to the hospital, register a car....
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:50:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:53:44 AM EDT
Another_Dude to Chertoff: Fuck you, you fucking fuck.

This would also apply to most Democrats, several Republicans, our AG and Lame Duck President.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:57:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cornholio123:
"People all around the country will be seeing teary-eyed children whose parents are going to be deported."

Good.

Chertoff is an ass. It's the illegals fault their children are upset not the US government. If the illegals didn't want their children upset they could have obeyd the law.


This is where the media begins its endless specials on the poor children of immigrant workers being deported.

This problem is like a bandaid, you got to just rip it off, the pain may be sharp at first, but then it goes away quicker. I say start enforcing and deporting. The reason they have children here to cry was in the hopes of being able to stay as a head of household for their "citizen children". Besides, can't they take their children with them? Media talks about breaking up families. Why? Take your family back to Mexico, do the proper paperwork, etc. And as for those jobs, are they worried about there not being any day laborers on the corners, or homeonwers having to mow their own lawns? Gimme a break. You don't have to deport everyone to make an impact anyway, it's the ultimate goal, but once you start, they might get the message and get the hell out or hide. Eventually one will get sick and when they go to a hospital, grab them.

Link Posted: 5/25/2007 4:59:20 AM EDT
When did it become acceptable for someone responsible for enforcing laws in our nation to just stand up and tell us that enforcing the laws "isn't going to happen"?
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 5:17:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
When did it become acceptable for someone responsible for enforcing laws in our nation to just stand up and tell us that enforcing the laws "isn't going to happen"?


About the time our representatives stopped listening to what we have to say, and siding with the illegals.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 5:39:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By packingXDs:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
When did it become acceptable for someone responsible for enforcing laws in our nation to just stand up and tell us that enforcing the laws "isn't going to happen"?


About the time our representatives stopped listening to what we have to say, and siding with the illegals.


It seems to me that if Chertoff is saying that they won't deport illegals, perhaps we should start putting political pressure on the Administration to stop enforcing gun laws.

If a few million illegals can show up, steal social security numbers, and violate our laws with impunity, I should be able to buy a damn machine gun.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 5:55:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cornholio123:
"People all around the country will be seeing teary-eyed children whose parents are going to be deported."

Good.

Chertoff is an ass. It's the illegals fault their children are upset not the US government. If the illegals didn't want their children upset they could have obeyd the law.


If these illegals are so family oriented, why wouldn't they take their children with them?
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 5:57:13 AM EDT
maybe we need to deport the politicians
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 6:01:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2007 6:13:12 AM EDT by MCBallpeen]
What makes anyone here or in congress think that the illegals WANT citizenship?

If they get citizenship, they will:

1. Probably lose their below minimum wage paying jobs. No employer is going to hire someone who HE has to pay taxes and minimum wage on, when he can just go get another illegal

2. Be subject to Social Securrity withdrawls

3. Be subject to federal, state and local income tax withdrawls

4. Be subject to medicare withdrawls

5. Lose their "in state" tuition status they got while being illegals.

IMHO we can make it SO hard on the employers that THE ILLEGALS WILL DEPORT THEMSELVES. In other words, confiscate the business and sell off the assets. If the feds did this a few times, employers would stop hiring illegals. If the illegals have no jobs, they will seek greener pastures elsewhere and hopefully move back home. If not, round up the troublemakers and ship them back.

Personally I'm tired of the same old line "They're just doing jobs that Americans won't do." Yes, they are doing jobs Americans won't do because they are working for below minimum wage, have no benefits, or career advancement. No American would want to do those jobs for the slave wages they are paying. Instead of hiring hundreds of illegals, why not hire a few Americans, pay them benefits and get more work out of them than the hundreds of illegals. All we are doing by allowing illegals to work here is importing a new slave class of workers.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 6:04:53 AM EDT
Wow...... is it time yet?

Link Posted: 5/25/2007 6:16:27 AM EDT
Not everyone who runs across the border wants to pick lettuce.

I am concerned about our porous borders. I would like to know who is here and what their intent is. You would think Chertoff would lose some sleep about this.

We have to "legalize" 11+ million people in order to get "security"?

Just gettin' real, that's all.

I understand you see the flash of light first, then feel the searing heat, and finally comes the noise.

REAL ENOUGH FOR YOU?



Link Posted: 5/25/2007 6:46:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2007 7:05:52 AM EDT by Hessian-1]
Hey! I have an idea!

How about a positive spin on this?

We give tax credits to those businesses that employ citizens, We reward small businesses that way. We don't need a national ID card. If you have a SSN then your employer gets the credit. If you are self employed, you get the credit. We make a way that those people that are here can achieve citizenship, and get a SSN. Make it hard but not impossible. If you have recently acquired citizenship, scrutinize those people if they are traveling back and forth between countries.
We make it "unpatriotic" to employ illegals. Since we are becoming a nation of sheep, a "good shepherd" can sway public opinion. I remember when I was growing up, I mowed my lawn, my neighbors lawn, and many others to make extra money. Now parents don't want their kids to work for less than minimum wage. Hell! Me & my buddies were the "migrant workers" in my neighborhood! We did almost anything that we could to make money.
We also secure the borders.(Build the fence with those caught slipping in illegally and with funds siezed from drug runners, etc. & maybe a "tax" on those businesss that employ illegals [oh the irony!]) I'll admit it's farfetched and needs some tweaking but I think it's a workable compromise. Of course, the people that are hurt by this, (the people that exploit illegals, Mexico,etc) are not going to want to change the status quo.
Hessian-1
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 6:49:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GIJoe:

Originally Posted By cornholio123:
"People all around the country will be seeing teary-eyed children whose parents are going to be deported."

Good.

Chertoff is an ass. It's the illegals fault their children are upset not the US government. If the illegals didn't want their children upset they could have obeyd the law.


If these illegals are so family oriented, why wouldn't they take their children with them?


Their home country sucks.

Their home country will continue to suck if they can export their citicens. If we close the border and send people back there may ba a revolution in Mexico and it might not suck so much. We help Mexico suck by not enforcing the border.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:01:57 AM EDT
Hessian, that seems like the seed of a good idea to me.

Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:10:50 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Hessian-1:



We also secure the borders.(Build the fence with those caught slipping in illegally and with funds siezed from drug runners, etc. & maybe a "tax" on those businesss that employ illegals [oh the irony!])


best. idea. ever.

that's what we need to do. round up all the illegals, make them build the wall, then have 'em all go check the other side so we can lock the gate.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:20:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MCBallpeen:
Personally I'm tired of the same old line "They're just doing jobs that Americans won't do." Yes, they are doing jobs Americans won't do because they are working for below minimum wage, have no benefits, or career advancement. No American would want to do those jobs for the slave wages they are paying. Instead of hiring hundreds of illegals, why not hire a few Americans, pay them benefits and get more work out of them than the hundreds of illegals. All we are doing by allowing illegals to work here is importing a new slave class of workers.


We aren't "importing" anybody. THEY WANT TO COME HERE. THEY ARE GLAD TO WORK BELOW MINIMUM WAGE. The current situation is simply the marketplace at work. It's the result of idiotic government interference with the job market in the form of minimum wage, taxation, and the other mountains of regulations. And you guys are calling for more government to "do something to fix the problem".

And as for your "why not hire a few Americans", there's a reason that illegals are hired - they work their asses off for what they're paid. Whether you like it or not, this is capitalism.

Years from now all of you who got caught up in this hysteria will look back on this time with embarrassment, like looking back on that picture from the '80s when you had a mullet.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:23:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2007 7:31:13 AM EDT by bastiat]

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By MCBallpeen:
Personally I'm tired of the same old line "They're just doing jobs that Americans won't do." Yes, they are doing jobs Americans won't do because they are working for below minimum wage, have no benefits, or career advancement. No American would want to do those jobs for the slave wages they are paying. Instead of hiring hundreds of illegals, why not hire a few Americans, pay them benefits and get more work out of them than the hundreds of illegals. All we are doing by allowing illegals to work here is importing a new slave class of workers.


We aren't "importing" anybody. THEY WANT TO COME HERE. THEY ARE GLAD TO WORK BELOW MINIMUM WAGE. The current situation is simply the marketplace at work. It's the result of idiotic government interference with the job market in the form of minimum wage, taxation, and the other mountains of regulations. And you guys are calling for more government to "do something to fix the problem".

Years from now all of you who got caught up in this hysteria will look back on this time with embarrassment, like looking back on that picture from the '80s when you had a mullet


How ridiculous. We're not calling for 'more government', we're calling for the government to do a job THEY'RE ALREADY SUPPOSED TO BE DOING!

And your last line is just bullshit that shows your ignorance of immigration in this country, especially the 86 amnesty. This bill will do nothing but destroy any respect for our immigration enforccement and encourage MORE illegals to enter our country, not less.

Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:30:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Well, since Chertoff and the entire fucking Bush administration is so fucking dumb, let me use small words.

YOU. HAVE. LOST. OUR. SUPPORT.


I'll use one small word: TRAITORS
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:32:08 AM EDT
You want border security? Give all the land bordering mexico, 20 acres deep, to any good old boys who volunteer. The government supplies them with food and ammunition. Border problem solved.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:38:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By MCBallpeen:
Personally I'm tired of the same old line "They're just doing jobs that Americans won't do." Yes, they are doing jobs Americans won't do because they are working for below minimum wage, have no benefits, or career advancement. No American would want to do those jobs for the slave wages they are paying. Instead of hiring hundreds of illegals, why not hire a few Americans, pay them benefits and get more work out of them than the hundreds of illegals. All we are doing by allowing illegals to work here is importing a new slave class of workers.


We aren't "importing" anybody. THEY WANT TO COME HERE. THEY ARE GLAD TO WORK BELOW MINIMUM WAGE. The current situation is simply the marketplace at work. It's the result of idiotic government interference with the job market in the form of minimum wage, taxation, and the other mountains of regulations. And you guys are calling for more government to "do something to fix the problem".

And as for your "why not hire a few Americans", there's a reason that illegals are hired - they work their asses off for what they're paid. Whether you like it or not, this is capitalism.

Years from now all of you who got caught up in this hysteria will look back on this time with embarrassment, like looking back on that picture from the '80s when you had a mullet.


As I understand things the Mexican government encourages illegal immigration to the US. (How is this not an Export?) Our government's official policy of preventing enforcement is an import.

OK, it's the market working but the market works in a bunch of ways that aren't good and the government steps in to stop the activities. Dealing crack is the market working too.

BTW: For those of you wondering how to build a 2,000 mile fence... I live near a big road that has a noise barrier (basically a huge ass wall). Guess how many miles of this kind of wall we already have in the US. (Hint: Google is your friend)
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:41:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Why don't we try to deport them? We never have tried it but I keep hearing it is "impossible to deport all illegals". I would agree it would be damn hard to deport all of them but just because we can't nail all criminals doesn't mean we should stop trying.

Hell, all INS needs to do is hang out at Wal Mart and they could pick up 50+ a day at each Wal Mart. At least here they could.

I'm beginning to believe we need a National ID card with fingerprint security. And I don't like the idea of a national fingerprint data base on law abiding citizens. But I don't really know of any other way to positively identify someone. As for the card they could be issued as part of our drivers license.


You know what realy gets me in this whole "we can't round up 12 to 20 million people" argument is that I know of no one who is demanding roving bands of ICE agents running through neighborhoods going door to door demanding to see documentation so we can get them all in one go. There should be a goal set for a million deportations a year. Seal off the border, acheive your yearly goal and it will be done. It will take awhile but it took awhile for this many to get here.

This give up mentality is coming from the same administration that told us the war on terror was going to be hard and last for a long time but yet a domestic issue that will be hard and take a long time is just something we give up on.

And is it just me or is Chertoff a complete prick? have you ever seen the man speak in public? Its like he is headmaster and he has to explain to us dumb kids how it is and how dare we question his judgement. I hate the man.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:44:27 AM EDT
From what I understand, Wikipedia listed him as holding dual citizenship. That reference seems to now be missing from his bio.

Anybody have any reliable info regarding this? Could very well just be a tall tale, but it sure would be strange to have someone with conflicting loyalties in such a position.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:46:01 AM EDT
Never had a mullet.

I will look back on these times with pride that I sent my views to my elected officials on this subject.

Illegal immigration could be viewed as a form of taxation. You pay more for your health insurance. You pay more for your UNINSURED motorist coverage. You pay more in taxes on both a state and federal level to support public education to the children of illegal immigrants, emergency (and non-emergency) health coverage, etc.

You pay more when criminal illegal aliens (oxymoron?) are arrested and have to be incarcerated.

Counter this with...what? Lettuce, fast food, and lawn mowing? I mow my own lawn, grow my own lettuce, and don't eat fast food. Guess I should just get with the "capitalist" program, huh?





Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:50:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2007 7:51:40 AM EDT by Cypselus]
The "demographic shift/keep Social Security afloat" argument is so obviously specious that I find it hard to believe that it's made in good faith.
First, people who earn low wages are not going to pay enough payroll tax to support retirees unless they're admitted by the hundreds of millions, and even then, they will only postpone the reckoning unless they have many children. Obviously, this can't continue indefinitely.

Second, given how poorly the children of Mexican immigrants do in school, it's not likely they will earn much money, either. See problem 1, above.

Third, the Social Security crunch is expected in the 2030s, when today's able-bodied 30 year-old illegal immigrant will be a work-worn, amnestied benefits claimant himself, who makes the problem worse, not better.

Fourth, how eager will a largely non-white wage-earners thirty years hence be to pay increasing payroll taxes to finance the retirement of old folks who are mostly white? Allow me to suggest that they will not be happy about that at all.

ETA: All your page 3 are belong to us
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:52:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cheesebeast:

You pay more when criminal illegal aliens (oxymoron?) are arrested and have to be incarcerated.





Not an oxymoron. Redundant.
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:53:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cheesebeast:
Never had a mullet.

I will look back on these times with pride that I sent my views to my elected officials on this subject.

Illegal immigration could be viewed as a form of taxation. You pay more for your health insurance. You pay more for your UNINSURED motorist coverage. You pay more in taxes on both a state and federal level to support public education to the children of illegal immigrants, emergency (and non-emergency) health coverage, etc.

You pay more when criminal illegal aliens (oxymoron?) are arrested and have to be incarcerated.

Counter this with...what? Lettuce, fast food, and lawn mowing? I mow my own lawn, grow my own lettuce, and don't eat fast food. Guess I should just get with the "capitalist" program, huh?







How dare you believe in personal responsibility and self reliance! Shame on you! Next thing you know you'll suggest that people actually obey laws!! Not very "progressive" of you.


Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:54:20 AM EDT
Hey,

Check out the douche in action:

hotair.com/archives/2007/05/25/roasting-michael-chertoff/

Again the death penalty/execution argument.

FOAD.

Kevin "Do your job douche..."
Link Posted: 5/25/2007 7:56:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Why don't we try to deport them? We never have tried it but I keep hearing it is "impossible to deport all illegals". I would agree it would be damn hard to deport all of them but just because we can't nail all criminals doesn't mean we should stop trying.

Hell, all INS needs to do is hang out at Wal Mart and they could pick up 50+ a day at each Wal Mart. At least here they could.

I'm beginning to believe we need a National ID card with fingerprint security. And I don't like the idea of a national fingerprint data base on law abiding citizens. But I don't really know of any other way to positively identify someone. As for the card they could be issued as part of our drivers license.


Deporting means we have to give each of the illegals due process. (It's in the constitution and it does not matter if you are a citizen or not.) Under current law we can't just put them on a bus and send them home. They have to go to court and sending a few million through court would take a while. I agree with you. What I can't stand is the prohibition on interior enforcement.

Seal the damn border.

I see it like this. You are on a boat in the ocean. You get a big hole in the boat. You could sit around and figure out how to get the water out or you could fix the hole and THEN figure out what to do about the water in the boat.

If you do nothing while you figure out how to get the water out you will be screwed.
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