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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM Fire Mission: AR15 called a terrorist rifle on outdoorlife.com (Page 1 of 30)

IIRC

Joined Jan 2007
Posts 16
EE Offline

OH, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:15:49 PM EST

[Last Edit: 2/18/2007 8:31:17 AM EST by raf]

I was checking out the articles on outdoorlife.com and saw the mention of the AR15. I open up the article by Jim Zumbo who is/used to be a fairly respected outdoor writer, and read how theese rifles have no place in the hunting fraternity because people will lump them in with those who go around the world terroriving people with them. He also states, "To most of the public, assault rifles are a terrifying thing."
Up until this point I have enjoyed his articles and the magazine. I can honestly say that after reading his comments on these guns, that anything I have read of his was a waste of my time. It is hard to support a magazine/writer that is so willing to try to divide the shooting community.

If I knew how to hot link it I would but here it is anyway:
http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/zumbo/2007/02/assault_rifles_.html

You should check it out

Added by raf. Additional links: PLEASE DO NOT HOTLINK FROM THIS SITE!

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Latest list. Removed one or two addresses that weren't good anymore. Alot of the Swarovski optics adresses replied with "message refused", but I left them on anyways, since it might just be some sort of spam blocker.

HoustonHusker GO BIG RED! Joined Dec 2004 Posts 9074 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:16:57 PM EST The stupidity of some people is amazing...especially so-called shooters. HH
	Jesus loves you...Allah wants you dead N ,[____l, _-o\|\|\|\|o-_ ()_)¯¯ )_)

WILSON

Member

Joined Nov 2000
Posts 10833
EE Offline

IN, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:21:36 PM EST

Jim Zumbo:

Assault Rifles For Hunters?

As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

TxGunner Joined Mar 2006 Posts 367 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:22:00 PM EST We need an Arfcom fire mission...

pvc1984 Joined Feb 2007 Posts 110 EE Offline NY, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:22:04 PM EST [Last Edit: 2/17/2007 3:22:42 PM EST by pvc1984] ...better served with a gun (like a bolt, lever or single shot) that is likely lighter and more reliable anyway

Jason280 Member Joined Oct 2001 Posts 4134 EE Offline GA, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:23:03 PM EST Don't tell us, tell him!! Anyway to email him or Outdoor Life?
	"You know, skills. Like bowhunting skills, nunchauk skills, computer hacking skills..."

Zakk_Wylde_470 Joined Sep 2004 Posts 5474 EE Offline PA, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:23:46 PM EST We can't hunt with them in PA, anyway

pvc1984

Joined Feb 2007
Posts 111
EE Offline

NY, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:23:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jason280:
Don't tell us, tell him!!

Anyway to email him or Outdoor Life?

right at the bottom of the page.

Rosenrot Joined Apr 2006 Posts 873 EE Offline WV, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:24:56 PM EST [Last Edit: 2/17/2007 3:25:59 PM EST by Rosenrot] Yep Yep, ya see here Jim-bo, as long as I got dis here 30-30 and dis 12 gauge I'll always be free, who need dem damn assault rifles anyway

PeteCO Curmudgeon Joined Dec 2002 Posts 8415 EE Offline CO, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:25:00 PM EST Subscription cancelled.
	I've mentioned before.... those assholes do not realize how close they have come to meeting a violent death every time they pass my house. If I ever snap, they will be the very first to taste my vengeance. - GySgtD, on punk kids with loud stereos

BozemanMT Member Joined Sep 2004 Posts 3550 EE Offline CO, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:25:35 PM EST We're our own worst enemy We must hang together or else we shall surely hang separately
	Claire Wolfe is wrong.

kitwulfen no u Joined Mar 2006 Posts 2186 EE Offline VA, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:27:27 PM EST OST for Tropical Shitstorm Jim.
	Not a girl.

ACOGless

Joined Mar 2005
Posts 734
EE Offline

MD, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:28:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By BozemanMT:
We're our own worst enemy

We must hang together or else we shall surely hang separately

Basically the comment I left him

pale_pony The only John Wayne left in this town. Joined Oct 2002 Posts 7423 EE Offline OK, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:29:19 PM EST Idiots, everyone knows that an AK47 is the real terrorists rifle...
	Juries are the best judges of facts...courts are the best judges of law. But still both are within the jury's power of decision… juries have a right to take it upon themselves to judge both, and to determine the law as well as the facts. - John Jay <BR

pvc1984

Joined Feb 2007
Posts 112
EE Offline

NY, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:31:24 PM EST

[Last Edit: 2/17/2007 3:31:58 PM EST by pvc1984]

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Idiots, everyone knows that an AK47 is the real terrorists rifle...

we need to flood this guys page with comments.

BigRoost Why is there a piano on my cake? Joined Oct 2005 Posts 713 EE Offline GA, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:32:05 PM EST By that logic, we should divorce ourself from the Fudds when it comes to 2nd Amendment preservation because 2A doesn't mention hunting. Let's ban lever actions from the arms we bear to protect the Free State.
	Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. -Heinlein I don't really want to take on the horde of the undead with a probably in my pocket... Another_Dude

Midnight-Sniper Joined Jan 2005 Posts 2022 EE Offline ID, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:32:12 PM EST [Last Edit: 2/17/2007 3:34:57 PM EST by Midnight-Sniper] I'm sure the folks from Remington are saying "Oh shit! I had no idea this Zumbo guy was going to trash the weapons that we supply ammunition for." I'm sure they ate the coyotes they shot too so the animal-rights activists wouldn't be as pissed. What a self-serving, preaching son of a bitch.

NonConformist

All your doubts and fears!

Joined Sep 2004
Posts 9202
EE Offline

FL, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:34:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By TxGunner:
We need an Arfcom fire mission...

Roger that!

*switches channel*

Request Fire mission, over

There's a storm coming...

ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

viper5194

Master of CHAOS!!!! ( OHIO )

Joined Oct 2003
Posts 2520
EE Offline

OH, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:35:07 PM EST

[Last Edit: 2/17/2007 3:35:40 PM EST by viper5194]

Assault Rifles For Hunters?
As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

I also have no interest in using a combat-type gun in the woods. Auto rifles (especially those with large magazines) tend to promote a "spray and pray" mentality, rather than a deliberative and carefully chosen humane harvest. Already too many hunters take impulsive shots at running game. Neither the image of hunters as commandos nor the sight of wounded game will help us with the public perception of hunting. I understand that using a combat rifle of this type does not FORCE a hunter to hunt impulsively, but the vast majority of hunters will be better served with a gun (like a bolt, lever or single shot) that is likely lighter and more reliable anyway. If you insist on using an auto, there are plenty of sporting models that have more than enough firepower for game. If you don't care who you intimidate by the look of your firearm (or you secretly enjoy looking like Rambo), you are not caring enough about the public perception of our endangered sport.

<font size=2>The People should not have to fear their government, the government should fear the People!</font id=s2>

<IMG SRC=/images/smilies/anim_sniper2.gif border=0 align=middle>

defenderhome Member Joined Sep 2005 Posts 444 EE Offline NC, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:37:35 PM EST Damn. I always read his stuff as I can really realate to his hunting ethics and writings. I can't believe it. Really dissapointing. We need a channel for this!

joelad European American Joined Jan 2002 Posts 951 EE Offline PA, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:37:39 PM EST Divide and conquer. We don't need antis with Fudds like this. Wait'll his hunting rifle is reclassified as a "sniper rifle".
	T.A.N.S.T.A.A.F.L! YATYAS

PeteCO

Curmudgeon

Joined Dec 2002
Posts 8418
EE Offline

CO, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:38:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By viper5194:

Assault Rifles For Hunters?
As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

I also have no interest in using a combat-type gun in the woods. Auto rifles (especially those with large magazines) tend to promote a "spray and pray" mentality, rather than a deliberative and carefully chosen humane harvest. Already too many hunters take impulsive shots at running game. Neither the image of hunters as commandos nor the sight of wounded game will help us with the public perception of hunting. I understand that using a combat rifle of this type does not FORCE a hunter to hunt impulsively, but the vast majority of hunters will be better served with a gun (like a bolt, lever or single shot) that is likely lighter and more reliable anyway. If you insist on using an auto, there are plenty of sporting models that have more than enough firepower for game. If you don't care who you intimidate by the look of your firearm (or you secretly enjoy looking like Rambo), you are not caring enough about the public perception of our endangered sport.

Is this piece of tripe an article you are quoting or your own thoughts?

I've mentioned before.... those assholes do not realize how close they have come to meeting a violent death every time they pass my house.

If I ever snap, they will be the very first to taste my vengeance. - GySgtD, on punk kids with loud stereos

NonConformist

All your doubts and fears!

Joined Sep 2004
Posts 9204
EE Offline

FL, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:39:34 PM EST

Auto rifles (especially those with large magazines) tend to promote a "spray and pray" mentality, rather than a deliberative and carefully chosen humane harvest.

He obviously hasnt seen the average hunters here or at the range, they cany hardly hit shit

There's a storm coming...

ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Keith_J Veteran Joined Jan 2001 Posts 10070 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:40:17 PM EST Read the replys. They do not moderate/edit them. Be gentle and polite. But to the point. I know this because my reply is up there now.
	The climate is chaotic. Evolution in chaos requires a level of intrinsic stability, capable of absorbing catastrophic pertubations. To believe otherwise is to inject a pseudo-religion into science.

nightstalker Proud California Cracka' Joined Feb 2001 Posts 11067 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:40:20 PM EST This guy's just another that Bugs Bunny could fool with one ear and one leg tied behind his back. Drivel is his middle name.
	No matter how thin you slice the truth, there are always two sides to it. When words lose their meaning, a people can move neither hand nor foot. Confucius

usp45c

87

Joined Apr 2001
Posts 572
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:41:10 PM EST

This is what I posted as a reply:

I cannot believe I just read that. For a minute, I thought I was on the Brady website.

The "Traditional" rifles (wood stock, bolt action) are all but gone at high power matches. Looking over the stats from Camp Perry this year, I seem to remember that most of the winners used (gasp) AR-15 stle rifles.

If you are afraid of an inanimate object because of the way it looks, I humbly suggest you seek professional help.

(I know somebodys gonna say, "I know alot of people useing 1903's for highpower")

HRSGRUNNER Joined Nov 2005 Posts 500 EE Offline MO, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:42:04 PM EST webmaster@outdoorlife.com I'm am floored. We ALL must stand together. I just know his kind, A foolish old democrat brainwashed by the media, trying to fit in with god know who.

DrFrige

Gone to the crapper...

Joined Jan 2001
Posts 15694
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 3:42:58 PM EST

I wrote up this little note to him:

We are our own worst enemy. I know MANY hunters who use AR's for hunting and what is the difference between an AR that uses a 223 round or a bolt action rifle that uses that same round? because of the looks? So because the gun grabbers find a catch word like "assault rifle" for a semi automatic, How long until they change the term "hunting rifle" to a "Sniper Rifle?" I cannot believe a pro gun person would use the words "Ban" in one of his articles. Very disappointing.

Just remember, In the end all that is left of a man is his honor... doesnt matter how much money he has made or women he has been with. His name is only as good as his word.

HeavyMetal Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 7945 EE Offline WV, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:45:19 PM EST Gee Matt, thanks for posting a link to this thread and violating the CoC prohibition about starting a board war. Always got to be one mouth breather in the bunch.
	Originally Posted By jurist: Oh, and PS I don't use the safety on my AKs or my ARs. The only necessary safety is the trigger.

ffsparky26 Member Joined Nov 2002 Posts 2446 EE Offline TN, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:46:07 PM EST Post made.
	BOTD Solidarity, We must root out the moral aluminari and defend BOTD.

Midnight-Sniper Joined Jan 2005 Posts 2023 EE Offline ID, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:47:19 PM EST His blog site has been effectively INVADED!!! Keep posting them boys.

IIRC Joined Jan 2007 Posts 18 EE Offline OH, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:47:48 PM EST I gotta say, I have been really impressed with the comments that the ar15.com group has been leaving on their site. A lot of good points have been made with intelligence and good reasoning, which is far better than their logic. Keep it up

HeavyMetal Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 7946 EE Offline WV, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:48:46 PM EST Pelosi didn't sayt that(might have though it) DiFi said it.
	Originally Posted By jurist: Oh, and PS I don't use the safety on my AKs or my ARs. The only necessary safety is the trigger.

CZ75_9MM Member Joined Sep 2004 Posts 7676 EE Offline MO, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:51:02 PM EST [Last Edit: 2/17/2007 5:22:37 PM EST by CZ75_9MM]

USPcompact Member Joined May 2004 Posts 713 EE Offline NC, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:51:24 PM EST There have been some absolutely OUTSTANDING responses posted. Great job.

Silence Joined Feb 2001 Posts 2020 EE Offline TN, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 3:58:41 PM EST The dude is a ignorant remington shill. His honesty and integrity has been bought and paid for. nothing more nothing less.

ACOGless Joined Mar 2005 Posts 735 EE Offline MD, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:00:44 PM EST Who are the people linking this thread there, are they from here and if so why are you doing that?

HRSGRUNNER

Joined Nov 2005
Posts 501
EE Offline

MO, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 4:02:07 PM EST

[Last Edit: 2/17/2007 4:09:56 PM EST by HRSGRUNNER]

Go to www.outdoorchannel.com/company.cfm?ss=16&site=1&subject=feedback

and tell then how you feel.

I said:

Jim is an enemy to our shooting sports and I request that he be dropped from your programming.

Please see his blog http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/zumbo/2007/02/assault_rifles_.html#comment-60816410

His kind will be the end of shooting sports in America.

ipschoser1 Joined Jan 2001 Posts 4056 EE Offline AL, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:03:04 PM EST Zumbo must have had a bull elk step on his head or something. As for all the "fudds" comments. I know plenty of folks (me included) that hunt and shoot ARs. These comments don't bother me, but they are counterproductive for our cause. Seriously.

HeavyMetal

Member

Joined Feb 2001
Posts 7947
EE Offline

WV, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 4:03:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By ACOGless:
Who are the people linking this thread there, are they from here and if so why are you doing that?

Because their wife is also their sister, thats why.

I swear, the stupidity of some of our board members amazes me.

Originally Posted By jurist:
Oh, and PS I don't use the safety on my AKs or my ARs. The only necessary safety is the trigger.

Itchy Joined Aug 2004 Posts 1067 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:05:06 PM EST Wow. Really no words for this guy. Someone took a dump on the Internet and put a white mustache on it.

DrFrige

Gone to the crapper...

Joined Jan 2001
Posts 15695
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 4:05:13 PM EST

[Last Edit: 2/17/2007 4:09:52 PM EST by DrFrige]

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Gee Matt, thanks for posting a link to this thread and violating the CoC prohibition about starting a board war.

Always got to be one mouth breather in the bunch.

I dont think it is a board war... Board war is if we went agains glocktalk.com or the other gun boards, I THINK it is considered a blog or even when a newspaper writes an uneducated story, we set off a fire mission to educate. I hope Mr Zumbo will read and learn that there are other options other than a bolt action rifles.

I personally DO NOT care for 50 cal rifles. But you can bet your ass I will do everything I can do to help support my fellow gunners that DO like them to keep them.

We sure can be our own worst enemy.

Just remember, In the end all that is left of a man is his honor... doesnt matter how much money he has made or women he has been with. His name is only as good as his word.

Dave15 Joined Mar 2005 Posts 2436 EE Offline MD, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:05:49 PM EST Funny thing. An issue of Fur-Fish-Game a few months ago had an article by noted outdoor writer/predator claller/turkey and deer guide/former Colorado game warden Judd Cooney, about how HE recently made the switch to a heavy barrelled AR 15 (BM) after hearing all the good,and how he couldn't be more impressed. Used to like Zumbo.Weenie-punk!

Sub-MOA Member Joined Jun 2004 Posts 3134 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:05:55 PM EST There's no fool like an old fool.
	Diamonds on the soles of her shoes

DrFrige

Gone to the crapper...

Joined Jan 2001
Posts 15696
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 4:08:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Primos:

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:

Jim Zumbo

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

<snip>

Hey guys... since some rocket scientists linked this thread over there, lets not give them fuel to fight back with... watch the comments. We want to win this argument, not look like a bunch of teenage back alley kids

Just remember, In the end all that is left of a man is his honor... doesnt matter how much money he has made or women he has been with. His name is only as good as his word.

HRSGRUNNER Joined Nov 2005 Posts 502 EE Offline MO, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:12:02 PM EST www.outdoorchannel.com/company.cfm?ss=16&site=1&subject=feedback Tell them to remove him from their schedule.

Ziess Dachshunds > All others Joined Aug 2003 Posts 827 EE Offline OR, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:18:24 PM EST I left a comment, and it was articulate and frank. I think most of the other posts have been pretty good.
	"It's called 'peer pressure' and if applied in a swift kick to his 'nads, it works wonders!" -Eric The (We Miss You) Hun

IIRC

Joined Jan 2007
Posts 19
EE Offline

OH, USA

Posted: 2/17/2007 4:23:13 PM EST

You know, just for the heck of it, I clicked over to one of his other articles and I see where he writes "But bottom line, whatever we hunt with, and however far we elect to shoot, we indeed are in the same fraternity...As they say, different strokes for different folks. Enjoy it however you hunt."
This is amazing to me. Does he not hear the words coming out of his mouth, and not take his own advice? This was from his long range shooting blog.

Itchy Joined Aug 2004 Posts 1069 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:25:28 PM EST Damn, just damn. I can't believe a gun owner and hunter wrote this.

Swindle1984 Charter Member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy Joined Oct 2004 Posts 15910 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 2/17/2007 4:26:10 PM EST Ironically, the AR-15 was originally introduced as a sporting/hunting firearm.
	The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."