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Posted: 5/15/2015 7:52:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Today's climate: Probably 3rd degree murder
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Posted: 5/15/2015 7:56:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Here in RI , you'd get your shit pushed in.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:03:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Today's climate: Probably 3rd degree murder |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:06:48 AM EDT
[#4]
If they can legally possess a gun, then I'd let them go. No charges.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:18:33 AM EDT
[#5]
In Nebraska you can technically carry without a permit by using an affirmative defense - IOW, you admit you were breaking the law by carrying concealed, but since it was for a law abiding purpose you are not guilty. I wouldn't want to be a test case, but in theory you would be protected. I don't know if this would extend to carrying in a prohibited area, though.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:19:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Nebraska you can technically carry without a permit by using an affirmative defense - IOW, you admit you were breaking the law by carrying concealed, but since it was for a law abiding purpose you are not guilty. I wouldn't want to be a test case, but in theory you would be protected. I don't know if this would extend to carrying in a prohibited area, though. Interesting. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:37:44 AM EDT
[#7]
I was watching a show on TV which showed videos and background stories of real shootings. One of them was a felon in a barber shop getting a haircut. When he left someone pulled a gun on him and started shooting. He pulled his own gun in self-defense and killed the guy. The police cleared him for the self-defense shooting but the program said he was sentenced to 5 years in prison because he was a felon in possession of a firearm.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:39:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Allowable
I saw it on The First 48 lol Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:42:54 AM EDT
[#9]
All depends on what state.
MD, you'd be going to jail. Screw that hole. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:43:19 AM EDT
[#10]
In New Mehico, getting caught (just getting caught) is a 4th degree misdemeanor. $50 fine, judge admonishes you, you get your gun back. (At least that is what I've been told.)
In the case of a shooting, for the first 2 days, the news media would try to portray him/her as a misguided person who happened to be at the right place/right time, and remind everyone that there's a CCW law in effect. After that, as the story ages, he'd be hailed as a hero. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:46:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In Nebraska you can technically carry without a permit by using an affirmative defense - IOW, you admit you were breaking the law by carrying concealed, but since it was for a law abiding purpose you are not guilty. I wouldn't want to be a test case, but in theory you would be protected. I don't know if this would extend to carrying in a prohibited area, though. Interesting. There is case law all over the country regarding affirmative defense. Ohio's concealed carry law was created because a pizza delivery guy used an "illegally" carried concealed handgun to defend himself. He was charged with a crime. The Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the people of Ohio have a right to bear arms for self defense (as stated in the Ohio Constitution). That ruling effectively nullified the states law against CCW. The state legislators were left with no choice (as they saw it) other than to pass CCW laws that didn't violate the OSC ruling. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:48:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Entirely locality dependent.
Legal CCW but in, say, a school zone? In AZ you'd get a VERY sympathetic jury. No CCW in the state, like NY or CA? If it goes to a jury, you'd still have a chance of staying out of jail. In Chicago? Well we already know: Jail. Obama made sure of that while he was a state senator. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:52:14 AM EDT
[#13]
In NJ? You'd probably get just as much time as the shooter.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:56:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Entirely locality dependent. Legal CCW but in, say, a school zone? In AZ you'd get a VERY sympathetic jury. No CCW in the state, like NY or CA? If it goes to a jury, you'd still have a chance of staying out of jail. In Chicago? Well we already know: Jail. Obama made sure of that while he was a state senator. This is why "jury nullification" is so important. I would vote to aquit in any of these cases. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:56:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Back in 2002 a guy in NYC shot a burglar with an illegal handgun and got it pled down to Dis Con with 3 days in jail.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:58:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Depends on location and political atmosphere.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 8:59:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is case law all over the country regarding affirmative defense. Ohio's concealed carry law was created because a pizza delivery guy used an "illegally" carried concealed handgun to defend himself. He was charged with a crime. The Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the people of Ohio have a right to bear arms for self defense (as stated in the Ohio Constitution). That ruling effectively nullified the states law against CCW. The state legislators were left with no choice (as they saw it) other than to pass CCW laws that didn't violate the OSC ruling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In Nebraska you can technically carry without a permit by using an affirmative defense - IOW, you admit you were breaking the law by carrying concealed, but since it was for a law abiding purpose you are not guilty. I wouldn't want to be a test case, but in theory you would be protected. I don't know if this would extend to carrying in a prohibited area, though. Interesting. There is case law all over the country regarding affirmative defense. Ohio's concealed carry law was created because a pizza delivery guy used an "illegally" carried concealed handgun to defend himself. He was charged with a crime. The Ohio Supreme Court ruled that the people of Ohio have a right to bear arms for self defense (as stated in the Ohio Constitution). That ruling effectively nullified the states law against CCW. The state legislators were left with no choice (as they saw it) other than to pass CCW laws that didn't violate the OSC ruling. This is a wonderful story; however, I'd love to know who paid for the pizza guy's journey from local jailhouse to state supreme court. NRA? Domino's? |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:00:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they can legally possess a gun, then I'd let them go. No charges. This Put me on the jury please... Like a father killing someone who rapes his 3yr old daughter..... Guilty, lesser crime. Time served and $100.00 fine. Next case. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:00:43 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back in 2002 a guy in NYC shot a burglar with an illegal handgun and got it pled down to Dis Con with 3 days in jail. Bernie Goetz served a full year; I think that was mid-eighties. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:03:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Put me on the jury please... Like a father killing someone who rapes his 3yr old daughter..... Guilty, lesser crime. Time served and $100.00 fine. Next case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If they can legally possess a gun, then I'd let them go. No charges. This Put me on the jury please... Like a father killing someone who rapes his 3yr old daughter..... Guilty, lesser crime. Time served and $100.00 fine. Next case. That (almost) exact scenario played out before. Father shot kidnapper in the head point blank ON VIDEO killing him and only got probation. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:04:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Put me on the jury please... Like a father killing someone who rapes his 3yr old daughter..... Guilty, lesser crime. Time served and $100.00 fine. Next case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If they can legally possess a gun, then I'd let them go. No charges. This Put me on the jury please... Like a father killing someone who rapes his 3yr old daughter..... Guilty, lesser crime. Time served and $100.00 fine. Next case. Jury doesn't pick the sentence or the charge. Guilty or not. That's it. If you want them to get off, not guilty is your vote. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:05:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Happened a few years ago here in GA in a Bar shootout. Guy came in with a vendetta and wanted to shoot a few people in a group one of which was illegally carrying. Aggressor was shot, can't remember if he died, and no charges where filed as everyone saw it as justified. It all really boils down to the DA and his judgement.
I'll try and find the news story. ETA: Found it, that was a pain. http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=10667 10/19/2007 12:01:00 AM
Man shot, killed at Barnacles Police: No charges to be filed in incident By Ryan Crawford Staff Writer NORCROSS - A regular patron at the Barnacles restaurant in Norcross was shot and killed early Thursday morning. The homicide is the 41st in Gwinnett this year - the most the county has ever seen, said Ted Bailey, the chief forensic investigator at the Gwinnett Medical Examiner's office. "And we've still got 2 1/2 months to go," Bailey said Thursday. The old record was 40 homicides in 2006. Detective Jason Carter of the Norcross Police Department said he doesn't expect any charges to be filed in Thursday's shooting death of Juan Ojeda, a 54-year-old Spanish man who regularly goes to Barnacles to play pool. Ojeda appeared to have been drinking when he entered the restaurant just after midnight and he went to the patio where he asked to join a group of four people who he did not know. The group agreed, but Ojeda soon got on their nerves, Carter said. When one member of the group said something to Ojeda, he became angry and hit one person and bit another in the neck. Restaurant workers separated the group and Ojeda left and went to his car. Ojeda returned 30 to 40 minutes later with a pistol in hand, Carter said. People on the deck scattered and one of the patrons had a gun of his own, which he fired as he tried to get away. Carter said it was not an "aimed" shot, but it struck Ojeda in the head, killing him. The shooter had a concealed weapons permit, and Carter said everything appeared to be in order with that gun. The general manager of the Norcross Barnacles said he was very surprised by the incident - one his Carry in any place that serves alcohol was illegal at the time of this shooting. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:12:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Depends on a ton of stuff but the easy quick answer is that it depends on where you are, who the responding officers are and who the DA is.
Around here it's damn hard to carry illegally, but a good shoot is a good shoot and you would be fine. Head south 35 miles to Atlanta, you are prob gonna get double dutch fucked. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:13:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Happened
DARBY, Pa. - A doctor wounded by a patient in a deadly shooting Thursday afternoon at a suburban hospital campus in Darby, Pa. returned fire and wounded the patient, authorities said. Investigators believe the doctor had his own gun and acted in self-defense, Delaware County District Attorney Jack Whelan said. The patient, who had psychiatric problems, opened fire after entering the doctor's office with a caseworker Thursday afternoon, Whelan said. The female caseworker was killed. The doctor appears to have suffered only a graze wound and was expected to be released from treatment later in the day. Authorities have not publicly identified the gunman or his two victims. CBS Philly reports Whalen said the gunman was shot three times. Both the doctor and the suspect were taken to the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania for treatment, according to the station. The shootings occurred on the third floor of a wellness center attached to Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital in Darby, just southwest of Philadelphia. The center, which does not have metal detectors, is attached to the hospital by a pedestrian bridge. Just what led to the shooting was unknown, Whalen said. Two guns were recovered, and the shooting was still being investigated. "The scene is secure. Everyone is safe," Whelan told a late afternoon news conference. The 213-bed teaching hospital is part of the Mercy Health System, a large Catholic health care network serving the region. ETA: Firearms were against policy at the hospital. Not sure about actual legality. The guy kept his job. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:26:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: This completely hypothetical. Say someone was carrying a concealed firearm without a valid carry permit in an area that is illegal to carry a firearm. While they are there someone else comes in and starts shooting people. The person without a permit draws, shoots and kills the shooter, thus stopping a mass shooting. What would happen to the person carrying illegally? Now with poll |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:30:16 AM EDT
[#26]
100% depends on race of dead POS
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:31:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Allowable I saw it on The First 48 lol Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yeah I seem to remember an episode where someone was carrying a gun and used it in self defense, but didn't have a permit. Homicide unit investigated and the evidence matched his story and they let him go. I don't know if there were other charges added for that, as I believe all homicide detectives care about is whether you unlawfully kill another person or not, but that is how that episode ended. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:34:17 AM EDT
[#28]
In New Jersey you would do time
A similar thing happened in Hackettstown back in the 90s |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:35:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Lots of factors to consider such as location, politics of the region, race, sex of the perp, type of fun you used....
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:37:43 AM EDT
[#30]
They'd get hooked up on the concealed weapons charge but most likely not face prosecution for acting in self defense. How's that for messed up? In some localities they'd probably hook our young hero up for aggravated murder and felonious microaggression.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:38:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it was a justified shooting but the DA wanted to be a dick and set an example it would likely be just a ticket for the illegal carry around here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This completely hypothetical. Say someone was carrying a concealed firearm without a valid carry permit in an area that is illegal to carry a firearm. While they are there someone else comes in and starts shooting people. The person without a permit draws, shoots and kills the shooter, thus stopping a mass shooting. What would happen to the person carrying illegally? Now with poll Yeah. It's really 2 different things. 1) Was the shooting in self defense legal? If yes, good shoot 2) The illegally carried gun may get you a problem, but around here's it's a misdemeanor anyhow. Unlikely they would actually charge you with it though. Especially if you had an otherwise untarnished record. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:40:41 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
This completely hypothetical. Say someone was carrying a concealed firearm without a valid carry permit in an area that is illegal to carry a firearm. While they are there someone else comes in and starts shooting people. The person without a permit draws, shoots and kills the shooter, thus stopping a mass shooting. What would happen to the person carrying illegally? Now with poll You walk away and see if they find you. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:43:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All depends on what state. MD, you'd be going to jail. Screw that hole. A man in DC a few years ago saved a toddler from a dog using an illegally-owned handgun. They charged him with illegal gun possession, dragged him through the courts for a while, and finally knocked it down to a misdemeanor fine of $1,000 and two months of probation. They also kicked him out of the city. Sorta. The justification was, "Well, we can't just let people break our precious gun laws and get away with it, can we?" Because, you know, DC. 
Now, if this had been a person and not a dog? I wouldn't want to think about it. Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/gun-charge-dropped-against-dc-man-who-shot-pit-bull-attacking-child/2013/07/23/c9f6e6f6-f2e4-11e2-bdae-0d1f78989e8a_story.html |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:43:23 AM EDT
[#34]
This sort of thing has happened in Houston on numerous occaisions.
I don't remember the shooter being charged. I have also heard of both illegal aliens and felons in possesion of a firearm being involved in a legit shooting and don't remember them being charged. Not sure why. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:44:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A man in DC a few years ago saved a toddler from a dog using an illegally-owned handgun. They charged him with illegal gun possession, dragged him through the courts for a while, and finally knocked it down to a misdemeanor fine of $1,000 and two months of probation. They also kicked him out of the city. Sorta. The justification was, "Well, we can't just let people break our precious gun laws and get away with it, can we?" Because, you know, DC. Now, if this had been a person and not a dog? I wouldn't want to think about it. Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/gun-charge-dropped-against-dc-man-who-shot-pit-bull-attacking-child/2013/07/23/c9f6e6f6-f2e4-11e2-bdae-0d1f78989e8a_story.html Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All depends on what state. MD, you'd be going to jail. Screw that hole. A man in DC a few years ago saved a toddler from a dog using an illegally-owned handgun. They charged him with illegal gun possession, dragged him through the courts for a while, and finally knocked it down to a misdemeanor fine of $1,000 and two months of probation. They also kicked him out of the city. Sorta. The justification was, "Well, we can't just let people break our precious gun laws and get away with it, can we?" Because, you know, DC. Now, if this had been a person and not a dog? I wouldn't want to think about it. Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/gun-charge-dropped-against-dc-man-who-shot-pit-bull-attacking-child/2013/07/23/c9f6e6f6-f2e4-11e2-bdae-0d1f78989e8a_story.html |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:51:34 AM EDT
[#36]
Oh I would venture to say the races of those involved would play and crucual role as well as who the politicians are.
NYC: Black guy starts shooting White commuters and a white guy with an illegal gun puts the shooter down. As much as Mayor DeBlasio and Rev Al would want to have the white guys head on a plaque, the backlash from white commuters would be huge and nix their plans. Beyond that who knows. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:51:41 AM EDT
[#37]
I would instruct my lawyer that the jury of my peers is made up from the folks that I saved.
That not being possible it would depend if the jury is made up of folks like me or like minded. NOT GUILTY you don't convict folks for saving lives in a desperate life/death situation. EBR666 |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:53:13 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
100% depends on race of dead POS Don't forget the race of the shooter. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 9:54:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You walk away and see if they find you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This completely hypothetical. Say someone was carrying a concealed firearm without a valid carry permit in an area that is illegal to carry a firearm. While they are there someone else comes in and starts shooting people. The person without a permit draws, shoots and kills the shooter, thus stopping a mass shooting. What would happen to the person carrying illegally? Now with poll You walk away and see if they find you. This. Then go home and install that spare barrel. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:02:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Then go home and install that spare barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This completely hypothetical. Say someone was carrying a concealed firearm without a valid carry permit in an area that is illegal to carry a firearm. While they are there someone else comes in and starts shooting people. The person without a permit draws, shoots and kills the shooter, thus stopping a mass shooting. What would happen to the person carrying illegally? Now with poll You walk away and see if they find you. This. Then go home and install that spare barrel. I can't condone breaking the law on a public forum but hypothetically speaking: Don't forget to pickup your shell casings before you flee the scene and make sure you install a new firing pin along with that barrel.  |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:02:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Nebraska's affirmative defense requires that the person be engaged in lawful activity that a prudent person would believe justifies the carry of the weapon. So, just going to the mall on an average day probably does not satisfy that requirement. And, it's hard to say exactly what would justify it because you would have to convince the judge that you were behaving in a prudent manner. Guidelines are vague. Delivering pizza to a rough part of town? Depositing a large sum of cash at the bank? A mob hit threatening your life? Somewhere in that continuum I'm guessing. So the affirmative defense is a fairly risky thing to bet your freedom on.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:02:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Entirely locality dependent. Legal CCW but in, say, a school zone? In AZ you'd get a VERY sympathetic jury. No CCW in the state, like NY or CA? If it goes to a jury, you'd still have a chance of staying out of jail. In Chicago? Well we already know: Jail. Obama made sure of that while he was a state senator. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Entirely locality dependent. Legal CCW but in, say, a school zone? In AZ you'd get a VERY sympathetic jury. No CCW in the state, like NY or CA? If it goes to a jury, you'd still have a chance of staying out of jail. In Chicago? Well we already know: Jail. Obama made sure of that while he was a state senator. Actually, even before Illanoys got concealed carry, this was on the books: (720 ILCS 5/24-10) Sec. 24-10. Municipal ordinance regulating firearms; affirmative defense to a violation. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self-defense or defense of another as defined in Sections 7-1 and 7-2 of this Code when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business. (Source: P.A. 93-1048, eff. 11-16-04.) Yes, you were going to forfeit your gun as it would be confiscated in Chicago (could not register a handgun in Chicago then...all guns had to be registered per Chicago code), but they could not prosecute you for the possession if you were involved in a self-defense shooting at home or fixed place of business only. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:03:28 AM EDT
[#43]
The guy (vice principal) in Pearl, MS who stopped a school shooting when he got his gun from his car, was not charged with the laws he violated.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:04:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Given that all laws restricting the possession of firearms are unconstitutional, I would imagine that the gov would be reluctant to charge the person out of fear of the case going all the way up the legal ladder, resulting in their bullshit law getting struck down.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:04:30 AM EDT
[#45]
We know what Stannis would do...  |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:04:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't condone breaking the law on a public forum but hypothetically speaking: Don't forget to pickup your shell casings before you flee the scene and make sure you install a new firing pin along with that barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This. Then go home and install that spare barrel. I can't condone breaking the law on a public forum but hypothetically speaking: Don't forget to pickup your shell casings before you flee the scene and make sure you install a new firing pin along with that barrel. And extractor. |
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:06:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Should just be whatever the penalty is for carrying a gun without a permit.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:08:04 AM EDT
[#48]
PS: In Arizona anyone who can legally possess a firearm can carry concealed. So unless he's a prohibited possessor, no issues.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:10:26 AM EDT
[#49]
In extreme left jurisdictiosn like San Francisco, New York city, New Jersey, they'd be prosecuted. In other jurisdictions, not so.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 10:17:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Put me on the jury please... Like a father killing someone who rapes his 3yr old daughter..... Guilty, lesser crime. Time served and $100.00 fine. Next case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If they can legally possess a gun, then I'd let them go. No charges. This Put me on the jury please... Like a father killing someone who rapes his 3yr old daughter..... Guilty, lesser crime. Time served and $100.00 fine. Next case. Not guilty of any crime, $1000 cash award for public service would be my call. |
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