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Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:24:46 PM EDT
Think about it for a minute - if NK launches a couple of nuclear equipped SCUD type missiles at Seoul, what's going to happen? Will US air defense be able to knock them out, or will one of them land on target? Does it matter that much if they aren't accurate? We only have 30K troops in South Korea right now, and no way to immediately reinforce them with significant numbers. All we have to offer is potent carrier battle groups steaming in from offshore, but the chinese might have a counter for that that they could provide to their NK puppets - large numbers of ship killing cruise missiles. This situation could get really ugly for us.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:25:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Infallible:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
They are trying to show those countries in Asia that hitching their futures to the USA is a losing bet.


No way. Everyone in Asia knows North Korea is fucked, even the Chinese. Everyone knows that market economies are the way to go, even the Chinese.

The Chinese don't want North Korea to change because any sort of military conflict there would result in a flood of malnourished and racist midgets rushing across the border from North Korea into China.


It's not about NK. . . NK doesn't do anything without approval from China. . .in a sense, NK IS China. . . . NK is the Joe Pecci to China's Robert DeNiro. . .but they are an extension of and bought and sold by China. China is USING NK and the tensions between it and SK/USA/Japan to send a message to : India, Pakistan, Viet-nam, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, hell, even Taiwan : Choose your benefactor––-the USA or China. . .


ridiculous.
+1 someone needs to brush up on NKs relationships

Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:26:02 PM EDT
Because we're sick of seeing that POS little madman constantly being rewarded for bad behavior. Once, just once, we'd like to see him get his ass whipped.

Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:29:21 PM EDT
If South Korea started a "Shock and Awe" campaign on NK I think NK would fall quickly most of the army will do what the soldiers in Iraq did simply walk away from the fight. I think North Korea is made of glass they would be easy to to topple there don't have the arms to deal with what SK has there stuck in the 60's.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:37:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
They are trying to show those countries in Asia that hitching their futures to the USA is a losing bet.


No way. Everyone in Asia knows North Korea is fucked, even the Chinese. Everyone knows that market economies are the way to go, even the Chinese.

The Chinese don't want North Korea to change because any sort of military conflict there would result in a flood of malnourished and racist midgets rushing across the border from North Korea into China.


It's not about NK. . . NK doesn't do anything without approval from China. . .in a sense, NK IS China. . . . NK is the Joe Pecci to China's Robert DeNiro. . .but they are an extension of and bought and sold by China. China is USING NK and the tensions between it and SK/USA/Japan to send a message to : India, Pakistan, Viet-nam, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, hell, even Taiwan : Choose your benefactor––-the USA or China. . .


Follow us and you become a paranoid kelpto-state? Brilliant analysis.


Are you offering an opinion on China or NK? If NK, they are irrelevant––as a nation–– in a sense. They are an expendable attack dog that China is merely using for their own agenda.

Whatever you think of China, they are LONG range thinkers and planners. They ARE an economic powerhouse. Militarily, they are not as strong as us––––yet. Plus there's an awful lot of them––-Chinese I mean. They know they are jockeying for position with us for superpower status. They want the nations of Asia to think in terms of "what will China think?" when those nations make trade and military treaties, and agreements. Right now, most think in terms of "how will the Americans react?" China wants to change that. It's not so much "follow us" as respect and consult with us. . . China wants to have the influence and power that they feel we have had. To be taken seriously on the world stage.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:39:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By Infallible:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By FudgieGhost1:
They are trying to show those countries in Asia that hitching their futures to the USA is a losing bet.


No way. Everyone in Asia knows North Korea is fucked, even the Chinese. Everyone knows that market economies are the way to go, even the Chinese.

The Chinese don't want North Korea to change because any sort of military conflict there would result in a flood of malnourished and racist midgets rushing across the border from North Korea into China.


It's not about NK. . . NK doesn't do anything without approval from China. . .in a sense, NK IS China. . . . NK is the Joe Pecci to China's Robert DeNiro. . .but they are an extension of and bought and sold by China. China is USING NK and the tensions between it and SK/USA/Japan to send a message to : India, Pakistan, Viet-nam, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, hell, even Taiwan : Choose your benefactor––-the USA or China. . .


ridiculous.
+1 someone needs to brush up on NKs relationships



Enlighten me, please.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:43:01 PM EDT
If all this warmongering faggotry fucks up my next trip to Afghanistan, I'll have a case of the ass.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:43:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2010 7:44:33 PM EDT by FreeBear]


Because we're so damn tired of hearing 'North Korea Is Best Korea!'
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 7:48:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached



Because most of the dumb fucks never fought a war .
Key board commandos


Some of us remember the 50,s

Link Posted: 11/24/2010 8:07:52 PM EDT
Just whose side are you on?
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 8:11:31 PM EDT
Because this shit should have been done 50 years ago..
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 8:22:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AL_Safety:
Think about it for a minute - if NK launches a couple of nuclear equipped SCUD type missiles at Seoul, what's going to happen? Will US air defense be able to knock them out, or will one of them land on target? Does it matter that much if they aren't accurate? We only have 30K troops in South Korea right now, and no way to immediately reinforce them with significant numbers. All we have to offer is potent carrier battle groups steaming in from offshore, but the chinese might have a counter for that that they could provide to their NK puppets - large numbers of ship killing cruise missiles. This situation could get really ugly for us.


Right now is not ideal situation for us. If we didnt' have Iraq and Afghan to worry about, Korean situation would be different. But the fact is the nation is tired of war, and if we start the fight, then we better finish the fight. That means going full bore, and ROK better be with us on this. I'm not so sure South Korean is as committed...somewhat understandable since it is their backyard we're talking about.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 8:23:18 PM EDT
All I have to say is that if war reignites on the peninsula, NK will go nuclear.
We should respond to use of nuclear weapons by glassing every military base in NK.
Then we warn China that if the retaliate, that we do have enough nukes to wipe them out too, but they do noy have enough to wipe us out.
Sure they would hurt us... a lot, but we could turn their country into a big glass parking lot.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 8:25:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2010 8:27:36 PM EDT by FortyFiveAutomatic]
Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the laminations of the women. ...




The sounds of dismal screams amid crinkling plastic, oh the horror
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 8:35:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea

What ceasefire?
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 8:36:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By theBUBBAMANcan:
Good documentary...in 6 parts....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClfpG2-1Bv4&feature=related


Ya I think that's the wrong link buddy...
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 9:00:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2010 9:05:02 PM EDT by ma96782]
We (well actually the Leaders of the US) have a FAILED POLICY of appeasement towards N. Korea since 1954.

So, who do/should we blame for that?




Besides.............we buy stuff (actually a lot of stuff) from the other guy. Not to mention that they buy our elections and T-Bills.

Aloha, Mark



Link Posted: 11/24/2010 9:04:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 9:06:39 PM EDT


Aloha, Mark

Link Posted: 11/24/2010 9:11:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached

It has already been breached multiple times by NK.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 9:19:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached


A "ceasefire" only works if both sides actually cease firing.

The ceasefire has been continuously breached by DPRK, and the strongly worded letters from the U.N. haven't done any good(imagine that).

Some folks just think it's time for somebody to shit, or get off the pot.


My personal opinion is that when SHTF over there, it's going to be brutal, but necessary and long overdue.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 9:37:30 PM EDT
I would be real happy if the Norks suddenly revolted, hanged their whole government, and opened relations with the West. That’s what we all really want.

But that isn’t going to happen. The North Koreans are starving and living in one of the most repressive tyrannies in the history of man. They are also a constant threat to a nation that is not only an ally, but a friend. At some point something has to be done.
Link Posted: 11/24/2010 9:53:21 PM EDT
North Korea is an Ass backwards country that knows nothing except for extorting the West to get their way. This armistice must end sometime or another, unfortunately N. Korea acts more and more crazy to get what they want. Eventually the South will have enough or they will go too far. It will get messy very quick, since Seoul is very close to the border. China really doesn't want a Western Country on it's border so it will be providing assitance to N. Korea. S. Korea has much better equipment than N. Korea but their soldiers are softer. N. Korea doesn't have the ability to feed it's citizens, so they will be unable to sustain a drawn out war. N. Korea claims to have nukes, but last I heard their test fizzled. They could at least create a dirty bomb which would be very messy. What every happens will be pretty quick and bloody. N. Korea has been developing missle technology and I can easly see Japan being brought into this quickly. They may even go for Hawaii or AK so they could get very ugly. The reason I'd like to see this done is that the longer we wait the better technolgy they get. We should have finished this off in the 50's or 60's rather than let it get this far out of hand. N. Korea has constantly been preparing for war against the South, there have been tons of N. Korean spies caught in the South. They have built massive tunnels under the boarder. They bombard the South with propoganda (as does the South to the North). Lot's of people and countries are getting tired of this mess.


Link Posted: 11/25/2010 6:29:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 6:41:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2010 6:42:34 AM EDT by Zhukov]
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 6:42:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached


LMAO.

What constitutes breaching the ceasefire?

Perhaps lobbing shells over the border onto SK's side?

Oh..wait..
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 6:50:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 6:51:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached

Because half-finished missions are worse than losses.
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:02:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2010 7:09:36 AM EDT by HK_Shooter_03]

Originally Posted By realwar:
If South Korea started a "Shock and Awe" campaign on NK I think NK would fall quickly most of the army will do what the soldiers in Iraq did simply walk away from the fight.



Who told you that?

Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:12:27 AM EDT
People want it for one simple reason, North Korea is a bully. They have been bullying the south and us since the ceasefire.
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:14:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
There's always two sides to a story.

Why does NK always seem like a petulant child on the world stage.?

Anyway, China is the key. They prop up these NK guys because ....? Ask them.!!!

Simple. They don't want a Democratic country directly on their border. They've discovered the joys of a market economy, but they're still communist totalitarian.

NK does what it does because it knows absolutely NOTHING will come of them killing a few people. No one did anything when they sunk a SK ship, for crying out loud. The NK junta can then turn around and use the propaganda of "See! We told you the West is coming to get us. They attacked first. Be vigilant, hate the West" and it gives them license to continue to repress their own people.

One small change to Zhuklov's spot on analysis (in this and his later post).

China looks at NK as its stupid drunk brother who shows up at Thanksgiving. Better to let him drink to much, say and do stupid things, and leave without helping clean up, than have the family fight and have no one speaking to each other at Christmas.
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:27:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hobbsar:
All I have to say is that if war reignites on the peninsula, NK will go nuclear.
We should respond to use of nuclear weapons by glassing every military base in NK.
Then we warn China that if the retaliate, that we do have enough nukes to wipe them out too, but they do noy have enough to wipe us out.
Sure they would hurt us... a lot, but we could turn their country into a big glass parking lot.

How many American cities could China destroy in a nuclear exchange with the USA? 5? 10? 20?

What would the US economy look like after such an exchange?

Is that price worth paying?

Time will end the NK regime, and more time will also end the Chinese regime. Communism collapsed in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union when the people there realized that it sucked and that the capitalist world lived much better. The NK leadership knows this and are holding on for dear life. When the regime collapses, it will be quick and with little notice. Anyone connected with the leadership will need to get the hell out of Dodge or wind up on a meat hook in some public square.

Be patient and the system will collapse on its own.
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:33:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2010 7:40:20 AM EDT by Kaygee]
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached


Because its easy to be bloodthirsty when you're thousands of miles away from the fighting and you only have to see the blood, death and terror on Fox, CNN and Liveleak?
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:36:46 AM EDT
While delivering a final pimp-slap to the norks sounds appealing, I believe there is mutual disinterest in starting WWIII among all potential players except K-J.
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:43:37 AM EDT
Kim Jong Un : The Apple does not fall far the Tree.


Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:47:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2010 7:50:35 AM EDT by Dr_Dickie]
NK has the strongest and best defense in the world––60+ years of socialist decay.

The students of South Korea used to riot for re-unification with the North; then the Berlin wall fell.
Germany's economy was devastated by the amount of capital it took to get East Germany up to even human living conditions.
The South Korean students suddenly fell silent.

Think, "The mouse that roared."

Link Posted: 11/25/2010 7:49:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Interesting article: http://www.rense.com/general37/nkorr.htm

Before reading, I did a quick check on the author and his organization (Center for Korean Affairs): http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ckr/Abouttheckr.html

Some assorted quotes from the article:

In contrast, North Korea has not only the military power but also the political will to wage total war against the United States. North Korea has made it clear that it will strike all US targets with all means, if the US mounted military attacks on North Korea. That North Korea's threat is no bluff can be seen from the aggressive actions taken by North Korea since the Korean War armistice, most recent of which is North Korea's attempt to capture an American spy plane.
...

North Korea's war plan in case of an US attack is total war, not the 'low-intensity limited warfare' or 'regional conflict' talked about among the Western analysts. North Korea will mount a total war if attacked by the US. There are three aspects to this war plan.
...

Third, North Korea's total war plan has two components: massive conventional warfare and weapons of mass destruction. If the US mounts a preemptive strike on North Korea's Yongbyon nuclear plants, North Korea will retaliate with weapons of mass destruction: North Korea will mount strategic nuclear attacks on the US targets. The US war planners know this and have drawn up their own nuclear war plan. In a nuclear exchange, there is no front or rear areas, no defensive positions or attack formations as in conventional warfare.
...

North Korea has annual production capacity for 200,000 AK automatic guns, 3,000 heavy guns, 200 battle tanks, 400 armored cars and amphibious crafts. North Korea makes its own submarines, landing drafts, high-speed missile-boats, and other types of warships. Home-made weaponry makes it possible for North Korea to maintain a large military force on a shoestring budget. North Korea defense industry is made of three groups: weapon production, production of military supplies, and military-civilian dual-use product manufacturing.
...

North Korea is mountainous and its coasts are long and jagged. The Korean peninsula is narrow on its waste. North Korea's weapons and war tactics are germane to Korea's unique geography. North Korea has developed its own war plans unique to fighting the US in a unique way. North Korea's military is organized into several independent, totally integrated and self-sufficient fighting units, that are ready for action at any time.
...

The US commanders admit that North Korean soldiers are highly motivated and loyal to Kim Jong Il, and that they will fight well in case of war. Karl von Clausewitz said that people's support for war, military commanders' ability and power, and the political leadership are the three essentials for winning war. He failed to include the political indoctrination of the soldiers, which is perhaps more important than the other factors cited.

During the Iraq War just ended, the main cause of Iraq's defeat was the low moral of its soldiers. Iraqi soldiers had no will to stand and fight, and they ran away or surrendered without fight. Iraqi soldiers believed in Allah protecting them and became easy preys to the US military. North Korean soldiers are taught to fight to the bitter end. In September 1996, a North Korean submarine got stranded at Kangrung, South Korea, and its crew abandoned the ship. Eleven of the crew committed suicide and the rest fought to the last man except one who was captured. In June 1998, another submarine got caught in fishing nets at Sokcho and its crew killed themselves. Such is the fighting spirit of North Korean soldiers.


<snip>

There is much more in the article to dispel the notion that this would be a quick, easy war. Make no mistake about it: Casualties - both military and civilian - would be MASSIVE.


Only if we were stupid enough to underestimate them or give them a chance to catch there collective breath. We had better do something and soon. Zhukov i respectively disagree. When we fought in WW2 and Korea we awere on the road to success and defeat many times. Each time we came back and were succesful militarily. Where we screwed up was letting the UN finish up Korea and not Mcarthur. We are on the brink of the suicidal bastards having some serouis firepower. I would rather take the casualties now when there BM technology is crude and where the bulk would be military casualties than risk fighting them on the defensive. Its coming its just a matter of wether were going to wait or be the aggresor. We dug ourselves into this hole and the waiting it out thing is a lose lose for us. Time to man up, take our diplomatic balls out of Hillary's purse and start building up and planning for the inevitable.


Link Posted: 11/25/2010 8:17:43 AM EDT
I'd like to see North Korea whipped, but I do not want to go through the process of whipping them. That situation would be entirely too unstable, yet it may become completely unavoidable. We are treaty bound to back South Korea up and China is treaty bound to back North Korea up. The Japs don't particularly like NK and they could build up an offensive force with sophisticated weapons in a relatively short amount of time, not to mention that we are also treaty bound to come to their aid if they are attacked. NKs nuclear situation is somewhat fuzzy, but China's is not and ours is not. To make things even more complicated, China holds more foreign US debt instruments than any other country, plus we are their biggest trading partner. You have some major unknowns with the Ruskies and the Indians in the area. The whole thing is a complicated clusterfuck of a mess. I don't like complicated clusterfuck messes when shooting starts because because they have a tendency to grow into things that receive names like "The Great War" and "World War II."
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 8:20:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 8:34:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By realwar:
If South Korea started a "Shock and Awe" campaign on NK I think NK would fall quickly most of the army will do what the soldiers in Iraq did simply walk away from the fight. I think North Korea is made of glass they would be easy to to topple there don't have the arms to deal with what SK has there stuck in the 60's.



I have seen that posted a lot the last few days, dont know if its true. Its a comforting thought, that if hell were unleashed the norks would surrender in mass like the iraqis in desert storm. But in my opinion, they will probably be more like the japanese at the end of WWII. Starving, but willing to fight to the death for their emperor or in this case dear leader. Those poor people have been brainwashed to an extent the world has probably never seen and I doubt they would give up easy. YMMV.

Link Posted: 11/25/2010 8:37:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached


I'd like to see them get smashed before the develop the capability to deliver a nuclear warhead to a meaningful target.

Link Posted: 11/25/2010 9:10:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
There's always two sides to a story.

Why does NK always seem like a petulant child on the world stage.?

Anyway, China is the key. They prop up these NK guys because ....? Ask them.!!!

Simple. They don't want a Democratic country directly on their border. They've discovered the joys of a market economy, but they're still communist.

NK does what it does because it knows absolutely NOTHING will come of them killing a few people. No one did anything when they sunk a SK ship, for crying out loud. The NK junta can then turn around and use the propaganda of "See! We told you the West is coming to get us. They attacked first. Be vigilant, hate the West" and it gives them license to continue to repress their own people.


Imagine the disaster for us if Mexico completely went civil war... That's what China doesn't want with NK. It has little if anything to do with a Democratic country...
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 9:17:24 AM EDT
It's not worth it to after NK over it's antics. You are talking a few dozen MILLION casualties as a response to a few dozen murders.
Link Posted: 11/25/2010 9:21:04 AM EDT
Why are folks eager for South Korea to finish off/invade North Korea?

I am eager for the demise of all Communist Countries. Why not?
Link Posted: 12/5/2010 11:25:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2010 11:36:16 PM EDT by femgungirl]
I think it's only been 6 months since the last batch of North Korea threads in GD.
Link Posted: 12/6/2010 12:17:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached


Because they don't live in South Korea.
Link Posted: 12/6/2010 12:27:58 AM EDT
The people of NK are enslaved in Communism and they are oppressed.
Almost all children in NK are suffering from malnutrition, but they have the means to sustain the country. An eight year old child in NK is 10% smaller then their counterpart in SK.

The people of NK fear Kim Jung like Hitler, and their entire families are taken to internment camps if anyone does the slightest thing to disrespect or question the "Supreme Leader."

The fact that they killed SK civilians to see how far they could go. I guess in the worlds eyes, that's okay though?
Link Posted: 12/6/2010 12:33:01 AM EDT
Because people are more than happy to see other people fight for their "cause", but won't fight for it themselves.
Link Posted: 12/6/2010 12:35:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2010 12:35:42 AM EDT by FDC]
Originally Posted By Bakelite47:
Originally Posted By CRC:
Don't understand why folks want the ceasefire breached


Because they don't live in South Korea.


They are not in the military either.
Link Posted: 12/6/2010 1:18:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brokenyapper:
North Korea is like the brother that just keeps on poking you, and he just wont stop ever.

It's so god damned annoying.

EDIT: plus they may have 1 or 2 nuclear devices

Yup. And brother won't stop until you bitch slap the little imp into oblivion so he gets the point and behaves. I would like to see SK take a page from Israel.
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