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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:45:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Japanese Empire attacked the United States. After massive casualties, when any sane nation would have surrendered, we used nuclear weapons to end the war. NOT a terrorist attack. Comparing that to a terrorist using a nuclear weapon on US soil is simply bullshit. NOT a "thought exercise". Like I said, replace Taliban with any Enemy of the US in ANY war. I only used them, because we actually ARE at war with them right now. But think larger, think of the future.... There WILL be more wars. Someday, a country will match up against us in a scenario JUST like the one you have laid out above in the quote box. What then? The BIG difference is that we generally don't instigate wars (contrary to what some fucking morons on this board say), we respond to initial attacks upon us or our friends. You comparison is invalid. The Taliban would not be doing this in defense of their country or religion. They started this shit and they have been doing it for centuries. The Crusades were a response to Muslim forays into the lands of other countries. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:49:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Nah, he's a "free thinker", much smarter than the rest of us.  Aw fuck it. I guess one shouldn't explore the nastier side of humanity. Maybe Sun Tzu was wrong about "understanding one's enemy." Maybe we shouldn't ask hard questions of ourselves. Maybe it's easier to just watch Nascar, and reminisce about the glory days of highschool football. Forgive me for thinking. For pondering. For wanting to understand why we do the things we do. "Pie." |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:51:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Janet Napolitano - "Our preliminary working theory is that this man caused disaster was a result of Tea Party radicals or disenchanted war veterans." AG Holder - "We are investigating to determine if Governor Jan Brewer was behind this attack on Texas Hispanics....." Dateline TV Show - "Atomic blast in Texas, minorities hit hardest." Six Months pass..... Nancy Pelosi - "The solution to the problem of man caused nucleur disasters, as happened in Killeen Texas, is to ban math and physics classes at state universities and increase minority college enrollment." Priceless...great answers... |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:51:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Do not panic; "The system is running like clockwork". 
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:51:59 AM EDT
[#5]
The American version of the Final Solution?
Oh, nevermind, we wouldn't do anything at all and just wait for the next one. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:53:11 AM EDT
[#6]
No retaliation of any kind except strongly worded messages from the UN. And the dems declare martial law and suspend elections until the crisis is over. And since they intend to do nothing about it except make it worse, the problem will never be over.
Oh, and the Mexicans go home. So I guess the old adage is true, every cloud does have a silver lining. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:53:49 AM EDT
[#7]
A dozen Tea Party member will be apprehended with Taliban tribal clothing and passports that document travel to Pakistan and back to the US recently.
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:54:50 AM EDT
[#8]
The war with Japan was an example of "total war". The gloves were off, the ROE were well defined. If a non combatant was killed/injured it was an unfortunate accident.
You cannot compare that with what we have now. Our forces are hobbled by politicians, public opinion and political correctness. If an enemy did anything like what you described the ROE would have to change. I don't think any politician could prevent that and maintain office. The bombs on Japan were dropped to stop a war that if it continued would have been beyond anything ever seen prior. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:55:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Ft. Hood is a military installation, a legitimate target IMO.
I would be pissed of course, but not as pissed as if they had nuked Houston or something. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:55:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kileen Texas? Would anybody even notice? 
Population 33K Hiroshima: 30k Closest comparison I could make, though Kileen has much more military value. The 1940 population of Hiroshima was 344,000. In 1945 it was the HQ of the Fifth Division, a major embarcation point and the entire northeast and easter sides of the city were military zones. Ordnance, clothing and food depots. The Japan Steel Company, railroad marshalling yards, etc. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:55:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Immediacy check by back ground radiation levels ... .1 micro Sievert normal for my area.
Now depending on method of destination and size.. I would get on my ham radio and down load a weather fax or log on the internet if its still working and get local and event area wind directions and speed. to see what way the fallout is going. ( note to self if fall out is going towards Mexico some good might come out of it, probley where it was smuggled in form anyway) Since this post is what "I" would do, : I would top off my battery bank and store more water and food. The water i would fill up the bath tubs, every sink, pot or pan. If it could hold water It will be filled. Go and buy some more 50 lb of rice and canned goods on credit if i could . I dont know what is coming my way later or not. then top off all auto and truck with fuel and fill all fuel cans. then get my family all in one place. (Home ) Lastly its all about Intel. Short wave radio, Ham radio, just get all the info i could and plan for the most likely events to follow.. as well as praying for the poor souls they died form the attack. Oh and make a MS paint of my plans to show where every one needs to sit and store the extra food.  |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:56:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: they say that to keep the sheep form panicking Quoted: There is no suspicion of terrorist activity at this time. "We are not sure what happened, but we are sure this was not related to terrorism." |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:57:09 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Japanese Empire attacked the United States. After massive casualties, when any sane nation would have surrendered, we used nuclear weapons to end the war. NOT a terrorist attack. Comparing that to a terrorist using a nuclear weapon on US soil is simply bullshit. NOT a "thought exercise". Like I said, replace Taliban with any Enemy of the US in ANY war. I only used them, because we actually ARE at war with them right now. But think larger, think of the future.... There WILL be more wars. Someday, a country will match up against us in a scenario JUST like the one you have laid out above in the quote box. What then? The BIG difference is that we generally don't instigate wars (contrary to what some fucking morons on this board say), we respond to initial attacks upon us or our friends. You comparison is invalid. The Taliban would not be doing this in defense of their country or religion. They started this shit and they have been doing it for centuries. The Crusades were a response to Muslim forays into the lands of other countries. That makes sense and adds to the discussion. Now what about another WW2 type scenario, 50 years from now. A late-comer to the Axis powers bombs us with nukes. What will the posts on ARfcom read? Will they call the country cowards and baby killers? |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:57:47 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm reminded of that scene in the movie 'Mars Attacks!' where the Martians are running amok, shooting everyone in sight.......all the while saying: "Do not run; We are your friends!" Because after all, we all know Islam is a 'peaceful' religion.
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:57:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kileen Texas? Yeah - I'm confused about that too.  If the Taliban or Al Qaeda got their filthy hands on a nuke, they'd go for either Washington D.C. or New York. Failing that, I'm guessing L.A.
have the legs gotten that lax at Da Hood that the TallyywackerBan is able to pull a baby nuke together? what are they taking out..Titty bars and pawn shops in the Name Of Allah? I would think the majority of our serious equip from 1st cav is already in one of the sandboxes beyond that,, Texas deserves what they got,,bunch of haters, gave us those Bush's..Barny Frank "too bad they missed Crawford" Nancey Pelosi Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein in unison. "IF they allowed UNION LABOR in Texas it would not have happened" Andy Stein. "TEXAS GUN LAWS TOO LAX" Mayor Bloomberg "we dont beleive they were able to get the wepon through our secure border on the Rio Grande" Nappy Napoliatano speaking from an undisclosed location of the Office of Homeland security. "ahh, umm, err, ehh, aaa seems,,aa er ah we have a a a a issue with th th th the Whites in Texas er er er tryin to oooohhh opress the Tallyban" POTUS Obama from a location outside MECCA where he was meeting with Whacmadidajob over tea and hummus... |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:58:36 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Kileen Texas? Would anybody even notice? Population 33K Hiroshima: 30k Closest comparison I could make, though Kileen has much more military value. The 1940 population of Hiroshima was 344,000. In 1945 it was the HQ of the Fifth Division, a major embarcation point and the entire northeast and easter sides of the city were military zones. Ordnance, clothing and food depots. The Japan Steel Company, railroad marshalling yards, etc. Typo: That's what I meant to say. They are roughly equivalent in population and military significance (though killeen is more directly military relevant). |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 10:59:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Ft. Hood is a military installation, a legitimate target IMO. I would be pissed of course, but not as pissed as if they had nuked Houston or something. Wouldn't make any sense for them to use it on a military target. The terrorists want the highest body count possible, AND assuming nukes are really hard to find, they wouldn't want to "waste it" on a city that isn't very densely populated like NYC or Chicago. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:02:29 AM EDT
[#18]
If that would come to pass I hope it would go something like this.
Our guys are pulled out of Afghanistan and that place is made to glow in the dark for starters. Then how about a nuclear "Grand Tour" of Iran and Pakistan if they are in the slightest complicit. I'm a fan of killing the people of guilty muslim nations off in wholesale lots, destroying their culture and poisoning their land as much as possible if we are nuked. Their neighbors don't like it then sorry about their bad luck. Screw history as it looks like the US is always portrayed as bad guys anyway even in our own public schools. At least we will be "bad to the bone" sure enough. 
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:06:06 AM EDT
[#19]
I think its a valid question.
I would be pissed and I think the consequences would be awful for them. Nevertheless, I would have to admit that I wouldn't consider such a thing a war crime. Especially if they choose Ft. Hood; it clearly was a military target and not intended for civilians. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:06:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Japanese Empire attacked the United States. After massive casualties, when any sane nation would have surrendered, we used nuclear weapons to end the war. NOT a terrorist attack. Comparing that to a terrorist using a nuclear weapon on US soil is simply bullshit. NOT a "thought exercise". Like I said, replace Taliban with any Enemy of the US in ANY war. I only used them, because we actually ARE at war with them right now. But think larger, think of the future.... There WILL be more wars. Someday, a country will match up against us in a scenario JUST like the one you have laid out above in the quote box. What then? The difference between the Taliban and enemies the US has faced in previous wars (with the exception of the Moros and the Viet Cong - sort of) is that they are not a nation state. One country nuking another during a declared war is a despicable but legitimate act of war. The use of weapons of mass destruction by non-nation state actors is terrorism, plain and simple. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:09:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Nothing would happen. Texas is libertarian central so they would demand peace at all costs, with the legalization of marijauna and gay marriage.
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:09:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I'm reminded of that scene in the movie 'Mars Attacks!' where the Martians are running amok, shooting everyone in sight.......all the while saying: "Do not run; We are your friends!" Because after all, we all know Islam is a 'peaceful' religion.  that movie is more relevant today then it ever was. I didn't think it was a particularly good movie, but it really did have some strong points.
Like Hippy douche chick with her crystals and doves, then she comes to the realization that they AREN'T friendly. Or the Cowboy who just wants to build a casino for Martians and doesn't realize shit until they smash his building. Or when they basically vaporize everyone at the initial meeting then after wards they say "it was a mistake" and "they come in peace" And the scientists sigh, "ah! they come in peace!"
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:13:01 AM EDT
[#23]
So the taliban nuke us. We nuke ... someplace... in A-stan –– like, how can you tell?
Far far more interesting to me would be the chain of custody of the fissile material before the kaboom. A-stan is sufficiently worthless a shitheap that it might actually benefit from being nuked. However, anyone with the wherewithall to create a nuke would stand to suffer greatly indeed. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:17:28 AM EDT
[#24]
I would think that the Taliban would have to be able to master indoor plumbing before we have to be concerned with them being able to produce plutonium. Hell, their last idiot couldn't set off a car bomb in Times Square. I'm guessing that they are going to have to read a few more chapters in their science books before they can split an atom or two. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:19:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
So the taliban nuke us. We nuke ... someplace... in A-stan –– like, how can you tell? Far far more interesting to me would be the chain of custody of the fissile material before the kaboom. A-stan is sufficiently worthless a shitheap that it might actually benefit from being nuked. However, anyone with the wherewithall to create a nuke would stand to suffer greatly indeed. The nuke would come from Iran or Pakistan IMHO. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:21:45 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the taliban nuke us. We nuke ... someplace... in A-stan –– like, how can you tell? Far far more interesting to me would be the chain of custody of the fissile material before the kaboom. A-stan is sufficiently worthless a shitheap that it might actually benefit from being nuked. However, anyone with the wherewithall to create a nuke would stand to suffer greatly indeed. The nuke would come from Iran or Pakistan IMHO. The bomb would be able to be traced back to those countries...and I'm guessing that they know what the consequences would be. It would be similar to challenging Iran to a game of Tic-tac-toe. They get to be X's and we get to be 300 kiloton B61s. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:24:01 AM EDT
[#27]
DAMMIT
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:24:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
With this administration, a prompt apology would be issued.
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the taliban nuke us. We nuke ... someplace... in A-stan –– like, how can you tell? Far far more interesting to me would be the chain of custody of the fissile material before the kaboom. A-stan is sufficiently worthless a shitheap that it might actually benefit from being nuked. However, anyone with the wherewithall to create a nuke would stand to suffer greatly indeed. The nuke would come from Iran or Pakistan IMHO. The bomb would be able to be traced back to those countries...and I'm guessing that they know what the consequences would be. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:26:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I would think that the Taliban would have to be able to master indoor plumbing before we have to be concerned with them being able to produce plutonium. Hell, their last idiot couldn't set off a car bomb in Times Square. I'm guessing that they are going to have to read a few more chapters in their science books before they can split an atom or two. I used to think that way about them too. They certainly have some dim bulbs in their midst, but they also aren't as 'backwards' as I first surmised. When I saw their video of the aftermath of Operation Redwing, and their understanding of the SEALS' laptop, I knew I had been underestimating them. There are a LOT of university trained jihadists, backed by big money from rich saudis and osama money. To continue to underestimate them would be dangerous and play into their hand. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:26:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
With this administration, a prompt apology would be issued.
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the taliban nuke us. We nuke ... someplace... in A-stan –– like, how can you tell? Far far more interesting to me would be the chain of custody of the fissile material before the kaboom. A-stan is sufficiently worthless a shitheap that it might actually benefit from being nuked. However, anyone with the wherewithall to create a nuke would stand to suffer greatly indeed. The nuke would come from Iran or Pakistan IMHO. The bomb would be able to be traced back to those countries...and I'm guessing that they know what the consequences would be. Even the greenest of weenies wouldn't be able to deny the rage of the American public. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:27:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Obama pledges $20 million to build a Mosque on ground zero. Not far from the truth. 
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:28:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, moral relativitism, huh? I guess... Mainly, when I hear people question OUR use of the atomic bomb, my first reaction (like many of you) is to say, "Of course we used them. We HAD to! This is AMERICA! We HAD to do whatever we could to win." That got me thinking... Well, shit... Every group of people or ever nation, must feel the same way. If it happened here, though, I'm sure we'd all be calling them cowards or civilian murderers. Which would be totally hypocritical. I think, in this case, it is acceptable to BE hypocritical. We gotta win. Period. But we're not the only ones that think that way. Apparently you are not a fan of the idea of American Exceptionalism. Personally, I find the morally relative position you are advocating repugnant. Frankly, I think the world in general recognizes that the US is different, even if they won't admit it. The only people saying otherwise are those who's positions of power depend on making the US out to be the bad guy. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:30:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would think that the Taliban would have to be able to master indoor plumbing before we have to be concerned with them being able to produce plutonium. Hell, their last idiot couldn't set off a car bomb in Times Square. I'm guessing that they are going to have to read a few more chapters in their science books before they can split an atom or two. I used to think that way about them too. They certainly have some dim bulbs in their midst, but they also aren't as 'backwards' as I first surmised. When I saw their video of the aftermath of Operation Redwing, and their understanding of the SEALS' laptop, I knew I had been underestimating them. There are a LOT of university trained jihadists, backed by big money from rich saudis and osama money. To continue to underestimate them would be dangerous and play into their hand. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Okay, which cave are they hiding their centrifuges for the enrichment of their fissile material? C'mon. A nuclear weapon isn't a build-it-in-your-shed kind of project. The Iranians have been at it for years and years with top funding and the best facilities and they're not there yet. Omar the tent maker isn't going to be able to produce them in a mud brick hut in Kandahar. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:33:05 AM EDT
[#34]
Anyone know the difference between the Taliban and AQ?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:33:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Well shit, if we had closed that gun show loophole earlier the teabaggers never would have bought that nuke!
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:34:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nah, he's a "free thinker", much smarter than the rest of us. Aw fuck it. I guess one shouldn't explore the nastier side of humanity. Maybe Sun Tzu was wrong about "understanding one's enemy." Maybe we shouldn't ask hard questions of ourselves. Maybe it's easier to just watch Nascar, and reminisce about the glory days of highschool football. Forgive me for thinking. For pondering. For wanting to understand why we do the things we do. "Pie." Just what I said. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:35:48 AM EDT
[#37]
A message on the situation from our dear president...
" We should, uh, not jump to, uh, to uh, any sort of conclusions on who did this, uh... it was George Bush's policies that, uh, caused this to happen." |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:36:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, moral relativitism, huh? I guess... Mainly, when I hear people question OUR use of the atomic bomb, my first reaction (like many of you) is to say, "Of course we used them. We HAD to! This is AMERICA! We HAD to do whatever we could to win." That got me thinking... Well, shit... Every group of people or ever nation, must feel the same way. If it happened here, though, I'm sure we'd all be calling them cowards or civilian murderers. Which would be totally hypocritical. I think, in this case, it is acceptable to BE hypocritical. We gotta win. Period. But we're not the only ones that think that way. Apparently you are not a fan of the idea of American Exceptionalism. Personally, I find the morally relative position you are advocating repugnant. Frankly, I think the world in general recognizes that the US is different, even if they won't admit it. The only people saying otherwise are those who's positions of power depend on making the US out to be the bad guy. Seems a bit simplistic, to say it's okay because it's us. Like Team America, fuck yeah! But... It is precisely that pride, or thinking that made us great. So, it IS hard to argue with. I guess I am just trying to search for some deeper meaning to it. Maybe it's just as simple as, "We will win, period.". I am okay with that, in the end I guess. Still, I think it is worthwhile to ponder. What is the harm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:36:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Uncle Sam: " I've been nuked by extremists!! Nation building and extensive infrastructure improvement for all my foes!!!! On the HOUSE!!!"
Taxpayers: "Whoaaaa!!! Shouldn't we be turning these countries into glass parking lots? Thats what we pay you for!!!" Uncle Sam : (haughtily) "Your not the one that has to pick up the pieces, blah, blah, blah. By turning them into little Americas we'll all get along together" Enemies/Jihadis/Commies/Whatever : "Now that you've turned us into a modern country and trained up our military we had a vote and the results were the 'Death to America' Party won in a landslide." Taxpayers :  Uncle Sam : "Wheres my pension?" |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:37:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
The war with Japan was an example of "total war". The gloves were off, the ROE were well defined. If a non combatant was killed/injured it was an unfortunate accident. You cannot compare that with what we have now. Our forces are hobbled by politicians, public opinion and political correctness. If an enemy did anything like what you described the ROE would have to change. I don't think any politician could prevent that and maintain office. The bombs on Japan were dropped to stop a war that if it continued would have been beyond anything ever seen prior. Let's not forget that we now possess weapons that can take out the bad guys with minimal risk to others. We don't have to bomb the shit out of everything and just kill everyone. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:38:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Anyone know the difference between the Taliban and AQ? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Taliban = Afghans / Pakistanis in a regional network AQ = Multinational makeup (though primarily Arabic) in a worldwide network. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:41:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Killeen, Texas?
I'm fucked. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:41:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Chai Summit
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:43:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Anyone know the difference between the Taliban and AQ? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The Taliban was a ruling party of a country (Afghanistan) who provided a base of operations for a terrorist group, AQ. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:44:32 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Chai Summit I admit, I lol'd. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:46:15 AM EDT
[#46]
Texas Guard has open enrollment Guard goes to Taliban hideout to take scalps no ROI.
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:48:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
If the Taliban set off a nuclear bomb in a US city... At a minimum, a border closed to ALL immigration with a 5 year moratorium before expiration, a thorough and complete fine tooth comb and mass deportation program, an official Congressional declaration of war, possibly a limited temporary conscription, and of course a no-nation-building destruction through conventional means of at least 1 country (or sizeable portion thereof –– think Waziristan: it is only about 1100 km2). Much more would also need to be done of course. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:53:01 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The OP is trying to make the case that the Taliban are as justified in nuking Kileen, Texas as the US was justified in nuking Hiroshima. In which, he is full of crap. Uhhh, NO I AM FUCKING NOT. I am merely using my god-given brain to think about things. Unfortunately, you're making the same mistake I have. The majority of people who post in threads such as this fall into one or both of the following categories: a. They are incapable of rational thought. b. They reflexively give an emotional, "The USA is always in the right and morally justified in everything it's ever done, so how dare you even hint that it might be otherwise!" response. As to the question in the OP, the enemy would deem it justifiable, while Americans would consider it deplorable and (as someone noted in the other thread) find that it does indeed suck to be nuked. But, shoot –– they're Texans, fer Christ sake. What does it matter if a few thousand of them get fried?  
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:58:28 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The OP is trying to make the case that the Taliban are as justified in nuking Kileen, Texas as the US was justified in nuking Hiroshima. In which, he is full of crap. Uhhh, NO I AM FUCKING NOT. I am merely using my god-given brain to think about things. Edit: Also, it doesn't have to be the Taliban. Say we are in ANY war against ANY enemy. They bomb a city, comprised of civilians and/or military targets. Are they deplorable, or are they doing "anything to win the war?" That right there is a loaded question. Your question is framed in a way that presumes an either-or (deplorable or "anything to win the war"). In other words, it is essentially a fallacious appeal to a false dichotomy. Your question also assumes that there is an objective way to define/measure these two choices. It may rightly be justified when WE do a first strike nuke, wrong when others do it to us, and simultaneously the exact opposite to our enemies at all times (wrong to them, right to us and vice-versa). There is no contradiction there. |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 11:59:40 AM EDT
[#50]
zero would retaliate with a stern apology, then go golfing far away, like Europe.
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