Just some anecdotal evidence here, but since I'm in my local UPS Store (fka Mailboxes Etc.) on a weekly basis I figured I'd give it a shot. It was properly packaged with the ORM-D label. I told the owner working the counter what it was and he hardly batted an eye. Shipped off with no trouble.

If you are going to arrange a pick-up of ammo for UPS shipping, just go directly to the Hazardous Shipping Phone number to begin with, it will save you more time and hassel than you can imagine.

I see some people like on GB asking for proof of age, what would qualify for proof of age?

Any chance of migrating this sticky to somewhere we can all link to it since the ammo exchange is going to the new EE.

I figure the old EE will eventually be taken down or such and no longer readily available to those of us that leach off of this forum withut paying.

+1

Also, the question about age restrictions and signatures.  Do I need to receive proof of age 21 and does the package need to be signed for?

How many sides to you put the ORM-D labels on, just 2 sides or every?

I just shipped my first package tonight. The woman at the counter insisted on sending it "adult signature required." It was like arguing with the wall. I finally rolled and handed her the money. Farging have to drive to hell and back to get to a customer center and then I get attitude.

ETA: The first words out of her mouth were "You can't ship that here." At least we got past that.

Just shipped some the other day at a UPS Customer Center (not a "UPS Store"). I had a box with blue printed ORM-D labels with "consumer commodity" at the top not "Cartridges, small arms" The manager stated UPS Policy requires only a ORM-D label. It does not need a signature upon receipt.

I did have the UPS 800 number for their Haz Mat folks on hand though just in case. MAJOR kudos to the UPS manager for knowing her policy.

FYI, if you have ever ordered from the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) their ammo is shipped to the customer with a  blue ORM-D sticker with the words "CONSUMER COMMODITY" not "Cartridges Small Arms" at the top.  If it's good enough for a congressionaly chartered organization it's good enough for me. No need to place a "steal me" sticker on the outside.

Those are not the correct markings.  Ammunition cannot be shipped as a consumer commodity.  The correct Proper Shipping Name is Cartridges Small Arms.

I just wanted to ask. I got some ammo from the EE for the first time since I've gotten mags there. So I asked the seller about it being shipped, he said "Ive been out of town so I had my brother ship them for me. You should be receiving them any day. I would send you a tracking number but he sent them out US postal service." Is that even remotely possible?

Sure. You just don't tell them what's actually in the box.

NOT my recommended course of action, but some folks aren't real sticklers for the rules...

ETA: Made a thread in Team.

Shipping ammo is just too simple to screw it up.

My steps to ammo shipping success
1) setup a FedEx account online, there is no fee associated with this
2) when ready to ship, go online, process the shipment for "FedEx Home Delivery" and print the label
3) place label in clear packing slip envelope on top of package, do not seal this shut
3a) you may print the FedEx label on Avery 8.5"x11" 2-up label stock and apply to package
4) print four ORM-D labels and apply to 4 sides of the box, be sure to package in decent packaging

Here is a gauge as far as cost. About $1.00/lb. YMMV

Ok, so I have been in the freight business for 31 years, that may help.

Ship safe, use the ORM-D labels.

My understanding is that it's not illegal to ship USPS, but it violates their regs and policies and most offices will refuse to ship if they know what it is, which they will if it is marked in the manner the law requires.  I talked to five different USPS employees and got 5 different answers, sometimes quite conflicting.

Alright,
So I'm shipping a 2160 round case of 5.45.  Can I just put the address label and ORM-D stickers right on the crate (that's how it was shipped to me) and have UPS pick it up at my house?

You can ship ammo via USPS.  Do it all the time.  Local PO said you can't ship primers or powder but factory ammo is ok.

srt205

No, dont do it.

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/posters/pos138.pdf

What will happen if you ship ammo via USPS. I just had a member ship some .357 sig ammo to me and did not get it.



Can he or I be charged or fined?



Amos1909

Some people's kids...



Straight from the USPS site:

Postal Explorer > Publication 52 - Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail > 3 Hazardous Materials > 34 Mailability by Hazard Class

34 Mailability by Hazard Class
341 Explosives (Hazard Class 1)
341.1 Definition
An explosive is any substance or article, including a device, that is designed to function by explosion (an extremely rapid release of gas and heat) or that, by chemical reaction within itself, is able to function in a similar manner even if not designed to function by explosion, unless the substance or article is otherwise classed under the provisions in 49 CFR.

Division 1.4 consists of explosives that present a minor blast hazard. Examples are common fireworks, toy caps, empty primed grenades, and some small arms ammunition.


341.21 Nonmailable Explosives
Nonmailable explosives found in the mailstream must be immediately reported in accordance with POM 139.117.


Nonmailable explosives include,  but are not limited to, the following:

Small Arms Ammunition. Ammunition is classified as a Division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 explosive, depending on the degree of hazard. Ammunition that is regulated as a Class 1 explosive and designed to be fired from a pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun, as well as associated primers and blank cartridges (including those designed for tools) and propellant powder for use in any firearm, is prohibited from mailing.  

Some people think they know everything !!

You can ship USPS.  Shipped some ammo, box got damage (ammo got stolen probably).  It was insured, completed a claim form.  Refund issued no problems what so ever.  Forms were signed by the Post Master.

Hazmat labels are not required on factory ammo either.  Anyone who is charging that fee is making an extra $20.00 or what ever they charge.

The USPS does not say ALL small arms ammunition cannot be shipped...It says SOME.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_016.htm

Ammunition that is regulated as a Class 1 explosive and designed to be fired from a pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun, as well as associated primers and blank cartridges (including those designed for tools) and propellant powder for use in any firearm, is prohibited from mailing.

'Regular' ammunition (brass case, smokeless powder, primer inserted into case, lead bullet as an assembled unit) is NOT Class 1


Division 1.4 consists of explosives that present a minor blast hazard. Examples are common fireworks, toy caps, empty primed grenades, and some small arms ammunition

Again 'Regular' ammunition (brass case, smokeless powder, primer inserted into case, lead bullet as an assembled unit) is NOT considered division 1.4 if packaged correctly





http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1175263




The grey area... I have received ammo marked ORM-D consumer commodity from bigger ammo suppliers...are they correct?  If not why haven't they been notified?

If ORM-D consumer commodity is allowed labeling for ammunition, then USPS will allow shipment of said ammo.

You are completely wrong on this matter.  I have been a certified HAZMAT shipper for well over 20 years and believe I know the regulations as well as anyone.

Small arms ammunition (regular ball ammunition) is classed as a Division 1.4S explosive material.  It can be reclassed as ORM-D material if packaged as you described above.  It is still a hazardous material.  Also, it will never be shipped as a consumer commodity.  The correct proper shipping name will always be Cartridges Small Arms.

Postal regulations prohibit the mailing of any ORM-D material that was reclassed from DOT Hazard Class 1 (explosives) as well as several other hazard classes.  If you will check USPS Publication 52, Appendix A, you will see, on page 131 that Cartridges Small Arms ORM-D are prohibited from mailing.

Also, you left out the marking requirements for ORM-D materials in your example of the packaging instructions.

Look for smaller regional companies as well.  For the upper Midwest, Dakotas, MInnesota, Iowa, Wisonsin, Illinois, Nebraska, check out Spee Dee Delivery.  I have had ammo shipped to me through them from Sportsmans guide.  I use them at my job, they are fast and the rates beat the hell out of UPS.

Fedex and Fedex ground are totally different rules.  ORN-D labels on the corners and ship it ground. Go to FedEx website and create an account don't rely on employees at the shipping centers  they will not know as there are very little private parties shipping ammo.   Ammo is not hazmat but do yourself a favor and create a free account using a debt or credit card you will thank yourself in the end.     BTW I'm a FedEx driver who has a small ammo manufacturer on my route.

Be careful.  Small arms ammunition is a hazardous material and shipment is regulated by the DOT Hazmat regulations in 49CFR.  Just because a package may be reclassed to ORM-D, does not remove it from the Hazmat regulations.  It just relieves the shipper from parts of the regulation concerning packaging, labeling, and shipping papers.  ORM-D is considered a DOT hazard class.

Just a heads up, the ORM-D Classification is being phased out and replaced with a new "Hazardous, Limited Quantities" label.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/variations.html
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=54456

What happens to the ammo if someone ships it to you and you never receive it or hear anything about it?



Do they just seize it and collect info or what???

Just got off of the phone with UPS Hazmat and the ORM-D label is still acceptable and all previous rules are in effect.  FYI

Wes

ORM-D is being phased out and will no longer be used after Dec 31, 2013.  Many shippers will be switching to the limited quantity provisions and no longer accepting ORM-D earlier in 2013.  As you said, it's still OK as of now.

I Freakin hate UPS

I have sold and shipped ammo several times in the past and it seems like every time I drop some off at the UPS Customer Center in Chattanooga, I get at least some BS but I had always been able to convince them to ship it.

Today was different.

I walked in handed them the box (that was marked with the correct ORMD sticker) and the person said "I can't take this- it doesn't say 'Adult Signature Required". I say, it's not required. She says, I'm not taking it.

Since there were  several people waiting behind me and she had already said that there were no management people there at the moment, I took the box and left. I went out to my vehicle and called their customer service 800 number and verified that the adult signature was not required. The customer service person said that if they would not take it, to have them call customer service themselves to get the correct information.

So I go back in and explain all that and one person says to the other "you'll have to call hazmat". She says "what's the number" I start reading it off my phone since they couldn't find it right away.  So she calls hazmat and hazmat immediately transfers her to customer service who tells her that adult signature IS required. So I pick up my box and walk back out to vehicle.

Now I am pissed. I call the customer service number AGAIN and explain what is going on. She (the 800# chick) calls hazmat who tells her that it IS NOT required. I ask her if there is some way to compel them to take the package. She asked me to walk inside and hand them my phone so she can talk to them. So I did and they talked and the person gets off the phone and says that there is some management type there now and she will go talk to them. So after about 15 freaking more minutes she comes out and says "We can ship it".

I have to admit a little satisfaction from sticking with it and convincing them in the end but damn!!!

I think I will just shoot all my ammo from now on whether I want to or not!

I did what was recommended above.....
Created a Fed-Ex account, completed the shipment online and scheduled a pickup.
Worked great so far.

FedEx is definitely the way to go as outlined in this thread, set-up the online account and schedule a pick up, be honest and click on ormd materials when you edit the shipping info and print the ormd labels and fix to your package, with the online account you get a 8% discount on shipping also, I recently shipped 500 rounds of 223 from Ohio to Washington ground with pick up for $23. Simple and fast and most of all no bullshit while at the UPS counter

Just shipped some ammo using UPS with the new symbols.  No issues, but he didn't ask what was in it.
Made it look professional and viola.. no problems.

If I request a pickup by the UPS driver, does UPS charge you extra?

Yes.  I think it's ~$8 for a residential address.  Note that you can just hand it to the driver if he's dropping something else off already.  If I know I have something coming UPS (usu. from Amazon), I just set the box on the porch with a note saying "UPS pickup" in large letter and it magically gets sent on its way.

Personally I wouldn't just and the UPS guy a box.  Things could disappear that way.  I'd bring it down to the distribution center, but that's me.

Also as mentioned, they do charge for pickup unless they are dropping something off, or you have a good relationship with your driver.

On most corrugated boxes, that info is on a label stamped on (usually) the bottom of the box. It identifies the corrugated construction.

I've been doing the same thing with good success.  Sometimes I have to schedule a pickup, but I take advantage of any incoming UPS packages and stick my outgoing on the porch with a note to make sure it gets noticed.   I'm using the new symbol and it seems to work great.

We have great UPS drivers here.  One of them told me they are shipping an unbelievable amount of ammo right now.

I just shipped ammo from a UPS Customer Center yesterday in FL.  No issues at all.  They put the ORM-D Stickers on for me.

It might be a good idea to start labeling boxes with both the ORD-M and Limited Quanity labels.

They're phasing out the ORD-M label and going to the international standard of Limited Quanity label.

This site (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/03/diamond-labels-will-replace-orm-d-labels-on-ammo-shipments/) has a short post talking about it as well as a link for a PDF to download the limited quanity labels.

I work at a shipper and I'm seeing a lot of packages labeled with the ORD-M and Limited Quanity diamond.

Diamond should be good enough.  I've shipped a few boxes just with the diamond and haven't had a issue.  Also received a package the same way with just the diamond.

Went to ship some ammo At FedEx... Same properly marked box, same ammo I got from an individual 3 weeks ago.  



Refused to ship saying I needed my proper HAZ MAT cert??



What gives?


 

Fedex GROUND?

Maybe just take it to a UPS hub?

UPS hub took it no issues. All they cared was it was marked and boxed properly



 

I just shipped from a UPS hub right here in my town. Took it no issues. It already had the ORM-D markings on it, but she put the new black and white stickers on it as well. Very nice lady. Even gave me a bunch of the stickers in case I need to ship more another time.  She said they ship ammo all the time. I love it when things go smoothly!

I discovered you can mail a rifle if you are sending it to an FFL.  The postmaster was happy to send it after checking his rule book.  And, like checked luggage on an aircraft, a "steal me" firearms outside tag is not required.

Just wanted to chime in with my experiences. As an ammo dealer I do ship ammo using both FedEx and UPS.

UPS - everything is covered here, for a quick yet definitive outline of UPS's just go to UPS's own website and follow their rules. Here is the link:

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/packaging/guidelines/ammunition.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=ammunition

Also print out a copy of that and bring it with you when you go just in case. You will also note on that web page that the two methods of getting ammo shipped are the UPS Customer Center and to schedule a pickup. I have never had a driver refuse to pick it up, but have had calls come in from the Ship Center when they get the package - just point them to their own website for their own rules.

FEDEX - is a bit more tricky though I actually prefer shipping FEDEX as they are less expensive.

Step 1 - Create an online FEDEX Business ground/express account
Step 2 - Once the account is setup, contact your account manager and let them know you need to be setup for shipping Hazardous Materials. They will likely ask the what, whens and whys - just tell them what you are doing.
Step 3 - Some account managers will just flip the switch so that you can setup ORM-D shipments, others will ask you for proof that you or someone that works for you has been trained on 49 CFR Hazardous Materials shipping. If they ask you for a certificate just go read the requirements for shipping ammo (49 C.F.R. § 173.59) and then create your own training certificate. Sign it scan it and send it in. 49 CFR § 172.702 states that the required training can be provided by the employer/shipper. This is really more a legal thing with FEDEX so that they can put the fault back on you if you do not package or mark the package appropriately.
Step 4 - FEDEX only picks up ammo by way of a scheduled pickup. Once approved - make sure you indicate ORM-D when setting up the shipment online.

The big 3 things to do when shipping ammo is:

1. Make sure you are shipping properly packed ammo (see box strength/crush requirements, etc.)
2. Make sure the box is properly labeled as ORM-D Ammunition Small Caliber.  This will change at the end of this year to the IATA limited quantity materials rule which does not require additional paperwork if the quantity falls inline with the limited quantity rules - I believe this is 30kg or 66 lbs). My FEDEX account manager said that they are now allowing the limited quantity stuff to be reclassified as ORM-D until July of 2020, this also shows up on the UPS website here:

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/new_requirements.html

3. Declare, declare, declare - I believe the minimum fine is $50,000 but may go up to $110,000 under the new IATA rules.
Hope that helps a few folks out.

- William

My recent Fed Ex ammo shipping experience:





1. Use my existing Fed Ex internet account to generate a 54# shipment. (I have no Hazmat training or cert.)


2. Check the ORM box on the online form.


3. Print the label and attach it along with an "ORM-D Small Arms Cartridges" sticker.


4. Fed Ex comes by my house and picks it up.


5. Done.

 

Anyone ever shipped an ammo can without putting it in a box or packaging? Just slap an address label on the side?

Are any of then able to ship via air?