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Posted: 1/7/2003 4:25:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Green Tips are useless. They defeat the purpose of the AR's original design. And that was a light fast bullet with vicious ballistics.
If you read the accounts of the Mogadishu fiasco, you saw the over penetration of the green tips. I don't know if that is true but it seem logical that the M855 would over penetrate the somalians' thin carcasses. |
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Posted: 1/7/2003 4:40:36 PM EDT
[#2]
A: Because most people know almost nothing about ballistics, particularly terminal ballistics. They just want "that military 'armor-piercing' [it isn't] ammo that the Army uses." And those who know a bit more fail to realize that by enhancing long-range penetration and accuracy, they lose lots of fragmentation range, meaning they significantly reduce the range within which their weapons system will have maximum wound capability. Of course, you can read all about it here: www.ammo-oracle.com -Troy |
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Posted: 1/7/2003 5:06:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I think it's the cool factor at work again. I have some green tips and I would trade 1 of them for 2-3 rounds of good M193. They don't impress me. I won't be using them much over 200 yards anyway. IMHO.
MM419 |
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Posted: 1/7/2003 5:13:52 PM EDT
[#4]
I load my SHTF strippers with SS109 & Military Ball alternating. I figure in any situation all I have to do is hit them twice and I am OK.
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Posted: 1/7/2003 7:15:04 PM EDT
[#5]
I have not done any kind of scientific testing, but I would say SS109 is much more accurate out of a 1/7 20" HBAR than M193. At 100 yards it may not mean much, but at 500 it matters. JMHO. If you have used both, post your experience.
My limited results average about 5 moa for SA 'M193', and 2.5 moa for IMI SS109. Same gun, days, etc. |
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Posted: 1/7/2003 8:19:08 PM EDT
[#6]
i like SS109. it definitely has its merits but i bet my storage is only 10% SS109. M193 is just a better round for joe civilian. i would like to stash away a case of IMI M855 but as it stands i have 2 battlepacks of port FNM SS109. for shooting i have some spanish SB SS109. i buy it because its the most accurate ammo i have found for the money. i only shoot it in my MT6601 and my varmint upper and it performs as well for me as black hills 69gr for half the cost. it puts nice little groups on paper all the way to 500m. not bad for $220/1200
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Posted: 1/7/2003 10:51:57 PM EDT
[#7]
As people say it's the cool factor, having the magic green tip and all !
Personally from my experience with M855, I'll stick with 193 which will ACTUALLY hit a target at 500m every time .... |
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Posted: 1/8/2003 6:29:29 AM EDT
[#8]
My expirience with the same brands of ammo was exactly the opposite. SA M193 2-3 MOA, IMI M855 (SS109) 5+ MOA. 20" 1/9 HBAR Kent Edited so I'll get it right one of these times. |
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Posted: 1/8/2003 9:34:29 AM EDT
[#9]
At closer ranges does the SS109 penetrate armor any better than the M193?
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Posted: 1/8/2003 10:25:55 AM EDT
[#10]
I could be wrong but the green tip (ss-109) are ment to be shot out of a 20" not a 16" and less barrels.
I use SS-109 in my 20" and they work great, on the other hand, I use M193 (lake city) out of my 16" M-4gery and they seem to work good. I think it is a matter of the application the round is needed for....Personally, if the $hit were to hit the fan, I'd stick w/ the LC 55gr stuff.......I am interested in stoping a bad guy ASAP, less shots, then I am interesting in shooting up a car door... |
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Posted: 1/8/2003 2:45:09 PM EDT
[#11]
What range? What kind of armor? Both rounds (heck, any .223 round) will penetrate up to Level III body armor with no problems, and Level III is rarely worn except by SWAT. As far as metal goes, M855 starts having a small advantage at 60-70 yards that grows to be a significant difference as range increases (but remember: the difference is *relative to M193*; as it loses velocity, absolute penetration depth of metal is reduced). There are lots of different kinds of metal, from soft steel to hard armor plate. Neither round is likely to penetrate the latter if it's 1/4" or more. -Troy |
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