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Posted: 8/2/2011 9:17:07 PM EDT
so with all the offering for the new IAR for the marines why did they choose the HK?

i mean the one gun with a fucked up magwell that only takes GI mags basically, or super expensive magpul Emags, now they cant even use the new surefire mags, it just makes no sense.

i mean did it really outperform the other offerings that much?
Link Posted: 8/2/2011 10:43:24 PM EDT
The magazine well is my only real complaint against the HKs, especially since it was done to be compatible with the blanks only magazine HK developed for the L-85 series.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 3:31:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
so with all the offering for the new IAR for the marines why did they choose the HK?

i mean the one gun with a fucked up magwell that only takes GI mags basically, or super expensive magpul Emags, now they cant even use the new surefire mags, it just makes no sense.

i mean did it really outperform the other offerings that much?


All the usmc issues are "gi" mags. Its on the individual Marine to buy pmags or emags etc...

My personal opinion is that the mk48 would be much better in the saw category, but what do I know?
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 5:40:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LedZeppelin:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
so with all the offering for the new IAR for the marines why did they choose the HK?

i mean the one gun with a fucked up magwell that only takes GI mags basically, or super expensive magpul Emags, now they cant even use the new surefire mags, it just makes no sense.

i mean did it really outperform the other offerings that much?


All the usmc issues are "gi" mags. Its on the individual Marine to buy pmags or emags etc...

My personal opinion is that the mk48 would be much better in the saw category, but what do I know?


Yeah i know that but it replaced the saw. Something like the surefire mags are perfectfor it but because they chose the HK the only thing they can use is usgi mags
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 6:02:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LedZeppelin:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
so with all the offering for the new IAR for the marines why did they choose the HK?

i mean the one gun with a fucked up magwell that only takes GI mags basically, or super expensive magpul Emags, now they cant even use the new surefire mags, it just makes no sense.

i mean did it really outperform the other offerings that much?


All the usmc issues are "gi" mags. Its on the individual Marine to buy pmags or emags etc...

My personal opinion is that the mk48 would be much better in the saw category, but what do I know?


Except for the thousands of PMAGs bought with unit O&M funds and issued prior to deployment.

The Gunners have somewhat put a stop to this and the current plan is to buy each Marine billet in a Victor battalion 10 Magazines prior to the units lock on for the PTP.

I think adding Mk48s would exacerbate the problem IAR is meant to address, the automatic riflemen slowing down the maneuver of the team.


Link Posted: 8/3/2011 6:31:55 AM EDT
The main issue is they wanted to replace the saw because its heavy and bulky, but they lost the supression it offered.

Now the iar was supposed to allow them to be more faster and more manuverable, but because the hk uses a stupid magwell incompatible with most us mags they now dont have the ability to run drum mags or surefires new 100 quad mag.

Imo removing the saw and adding the hk defeats its purpose cause theyll only be running 30 rnd mags so i dont see the point
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 12:28:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2011 12:29:12 PM EDT by Top_Secret]
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
The main issue is they wanted to replace the saw because its heavy and bulky, but they lost the supression it offered.

Now the iar was supposed to allow them to be more faster and more manuverable, but because the hk uses a stupid magwell incompatible with most us mags they now dont have the ability to run drum mags or surefires new 100 quad mag.

Imo removing the saw and adding the hk defeats its purpose cause theyll only be running 30 rnd mags so i dont see the point


The few early adopters of the Surefire MAG5-60 confirm that they work fine in the 416 magwell.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 1:49:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
so with all the offering for the new IAR for the marines why did they choose the HK?

i mean the one gun with a fucked up magwell that only takes GI mags basically, or super expensive magpul Emags, now they cant even use the new surefire mags, it just makes no sense.

i mean did it really outperform the other offerings that much?


It was down selected, vice being selected.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 2:39:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
so with all the offering for the new IAR for the marines why did they choose the HK?

i mean the one gun with a fucked up magwell that only takes GI mags basically, or super expensive magpul Emags, now they cant even use the new surefire mags, it just makes no sense.

i mean did it really outperform the other offerings that much?


It was down selected, vice being selected.


what exactly does that mean?
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 2:53:47 PM EDT
None of the weapons meet all the requirements, so the selected was the closest to the requirements.
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 3:26:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
None of the weapons meet all the requirements, so the selected was the closest to the requirements.


oh ok well thats dissapointing, i was hoping for the colt to get it honestly
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 11:07:20 PM EDT
I've chimed in on this subject before––and R0N has as well––but it wasn't entirely a case of "the SAW is too heavy!" that led to the IAR. Doctrinally, the Marine Corps doesn't employ open-bolt weapon systems to initiate ambushes and Marines with open-bolt weapons can't be pointman in a stack due to the decreased likelihood of first-round ignition vice a closed-bolt weapon.

I'm not really sold on the H&K IAR for a variety of reasons, but as a POG in a reserve unit, I doubt it'll really affect me much beyond being trained up on how to fix the things when they break (I work in the armory).
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 1:21:03 AM EDT
Capability Development Document for the IAR, lays out the following


a.The Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR) will provide a maneuverable, high volume of fire weapon to the Infantry Fire Team in order to enable movement and suppression. This system will replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) in use by the automatic riflemen within the infantry battalions with a one-man operable, true automatic rifle. The IAR is being developed to emphasize the characteristics of being lightweight and portable in order to maximize the dismounted maneuverability of the Marine Infantry. The IAR will be employed throughout the same broad span of environments in which the Marine Infantryman operates.
b.By reducing the burden and increasing the mobility of the Infantry Fire Team without sacrificing firepower and flexibility, the IAR is directly linked to the Force Application Joint Functional Capability Concept and its attributes of lethality, agility, and tactical dominance.
c.This capability directly supports accomplishment of the following tasks from the Expeditionary Warfare Capability List (ECL):
(1)ECL 2.F – Plan and Execute Movement and Maneuver. The provision of a lightweight and maneuverable replacement for the M249 SAW at the Infantry Fire Team level will result in increased tactical agility throughout the GCE. As a result of the excessive weight (21 pounds loaded) and length (41 inches), the current system used in this role causes an unnecessary burden to the individual Marine with a resultant delay to infantry maneuver units and a significant risk to the individual Marine in confined spaces.
(2)ECL 4.C – Employment Direct Fires. The capability to achieve short term, high volume fires at the small unit level (Squad and below) will enable the attainment of fire superiority and suppression of the enemy using organic assets under the control of the tactical leader at the lowest level. The current SAW provides a singularly high rate of fire (700-1,000 rpm cyclic rate) but requires the carriage of a spare barrel and employment of the SAW in two-man teams in order to achieve this rate. Management of fires reinforced through continuous training can mitigate the risk of barrel overheating, however, the risk is always present that the user can fire his weapon to a point of destruction.
(3)ECL 2.E – Enhance the sustainment capability of the MAGTF commensurate with the GCE mission. The replacement of the current SAW with a system possessing greater reliability and availability will serve to reduce the burden on maneuver and combat service support elements.

2.Analysis Summary
a.The needs for any attributes of this capability are derived from the below analysis efforts:
Joint Service Small Arms Master Plan (JSSAMP), 2003. The JSSAMP provides the description of the Services’ desire to evolve current small arms systems into the next generation of more capable and lighter weight systems.
US Army Infantry Center LMG JCIDS Capabilities Base Assessment (CBA), Version 1.2, November 2004. Findings: There is a need to replace the current M249 given the capability gaps that the current LMG displays.


Link Posted: 8/4/2011 12:21:21 PM EDT
The main problems with the IAR has been remided by the surefire 60 & 100 round mags they just need fielded the Pmag is nice but GI mags are plenty good.
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 2:29:34 PM EDT
Fanboys in procurement section and a lot of "private" job offers after date of seperation is my guess.
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 11:33:08 PM EDT
The HK rifles can take sustained full auto fire a little better than a M4.
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 12:08:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Fanboys in procurement section and a lot of "private" job offers after date of seperation is my guess.


When he retired he went to work for Trijicon.
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 12:27:00 AM EDT
What you did there... I see it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:14:54 PM EDT
Because they could.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:45:12 PM EDT
Doesn't it only shoot from the closed bolt position?

I always thought the FN candidate was the best because it could shoot open or closed bolt.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 5:33:08 PM EDT
I believe the selection of the M27 is a back door attempt to replace the M16/M4 down the road.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 5:38:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 0351:
I believe the selection of the M27 is a back door attempt to replace the M16/M4 down the road.


well thats a stupid idea and reason to get the rifle
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 11:38:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 0351:
I believe the selection of the M27 is a back door attempt to replace the M16/M4 down the road.

The history of replacing the SAW goes back to 2001 and the IAR is meant as an IAR.
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