223 or 7.62?  in the SAR series (1 and 3)

i've had 2 7.62's, ended up sellin em both to fund other projects, still have buncha ammo.  i like the idea of the 223 ak, better range...accuracy, VERY low recoil (great for the wife, better follow up shots etc)

i dont really want the AK74 kind (5.45x39)  the round just seems too small?

Well, I would've recommended the 74.  Ammo is cheap and accurate, and the round is plenty powerful, yet with low recoil.

Also, with the 5.56, mags aren't always easy to come by, and when you find them, they don't tend to be cheap.

I like the 5.45 so much, I'm thinking about buying a 5.45 upper for my AR

I ditto brouhaha on this one.  I like the 5.45 so much that I bought three of them.  

They are getting tough to find though.  Tennessee Guns did have them, but they didn't show any on their website the last time I checked.

If you want to pretty up which ever ak you get, try AzexArms in AZ.  Derek did an awesome job on two of mine.

The 5.45 is the only way to go. All the science and developement is behind it. Try both and you will see.

Don't know what your budget is, but the best .223 AK variant out there, is the Galil.  Get a mag adapter and you don't have to worry about separate mags for your Galil and AR.  Valmets are good too, but for me at least, the Galil was much more accurate.

A good middle of the road AK design in price would be the VEPR's. They are very high quality and not too pricey. However they look different than a standard AK, actually resemble the Saiga rifles more, except with a thumbhole stock. But they are supposed to be very accurate and reliable according to a buddy of mine over at the AK board.

I would stay away from anything under $400, including Romanian

Quoted: I would stay away from anything under $400, including Romanian

Funny...my $230 SAR-2 has functioned flawlessly.  I think I'll stick with my "under $400" AK, thank you.

Ditto that for my SAR-1. A buddy of mine has the same. Also no problem...

i had a sar 1 and a preban norinco 56s.  loved em both, to tell you the truth, the sar1 was more accurate.  im tempted to buy another but i kinda want something different.  does anyone have any first hand experience w/the Sar3s (223)?

I think it depends on purpose.

If you enjoy guns for their historical significance, like I do, you have to own at least one AK in 7.62x39

If you're thinking about self defense or survivalism, then the other calbires come into play particularly if you have another shooter in the same cal already.

Have heard some people post, and the dealer I brought my SAR-1 off of, that the .223 SAR-3 mags have some occassional feed problems until you tweak them.

Also- have read that most 5.45 ammo available in the US is more for target use, and does not possess the same design as the tactical, unbalanced design that contributes to the 5.45 lethality.

The 5.45 does have a thicker rim however, resulting in less rim separations than .223, at least from what I've absorbed from posts here and elsewhere.

No experience with the SAR-3, but I do have a .223 Norinco and a Romak-2 (Thumbhole SAR-2 in 5.45).

The .223 Norinco shoots great.  No recoil, a little less accurate than my AR.  Absolutely devours the cheap steel case stuff without a hitch.  I like the fit and finish of the Norinco a bit better than the SAR as well.  Mags aren't as easy to find as some guns, but they're around $30 eash or so, and are steel of typical AK design and construction.  They are around, so they aren't that rare.  It would only cost you a bit more than the SAR, and I think it's a better gun.  

My Romak-2 I fell in love with once I shot it.  It is also an accurate gun, also just shy of AR performance.  Low recoil, fun to shoot, and mags are dirt cheap.  I am waiting on arrival of some US parts to get my PG conversion going.  I have to throw in with the others that 5.45 is a great cartridge for the AK.  I enjoy my 7.62x39 ones, but I wish I had discovered the 5.45 earlier.  It's a pretty cool gun.

The Norinco is a slightly heavier gun than the SAR.  It has a thicker barrel, and most of the metal is thicker as well.  It's the same construction as your 56 was, so just picture that with no recoil, and better accuracy.  The mag cost is the only drawback, and that's not too bad.

I'd love to advise you on the SAR-3, but I haven't ever shot one, let alone owned one.  All stories seem to hint that the mags are problematic, unless you go with Wieger mags, which are probably a bit cheaper than Norincos.  There are some concerns as to the geometry of the SAR hammer since it's designed for a 39mm length, an the .223 is 45mm.  Seems you may ahve to whittle on that some as well.  Quite frankly I think the SAR-3 is just not quite right.  That's why I've stuck with the Norinco and not bought one of the SARs.  

If I could only have one AK for real use, I'd go with a .223 Norinco in a heartbeat.  Good caliber, good set-up for that caliber, good quality, good accuracy, great reliability.  There is an AR mag conversion available.  Iv'e shot a Norinco with the mag adapter on it and it worked great.  Kinda neat, but I personally like the AK mag design, so I never bothered.  

Ross

ok, ive decided to go with the SAR-3, now two questions

1.) where do i get a decent price on one?

2.) where do i get the good mags for it?  (weiger or sumpin?)

SKaerE:  SAR-3's are scarce at the moment.  However, AIM Surplus www.aimsurplus.com is rumored (got this from the AK guys) to be getting a shipment of them next week.  Since they will be the only game in town for SAR-3's, it wouldn't hurt to get with your FFL and get your name in the hat with AIM.  Expect to pay $300.  Be forewarned however that the SAR-3's original trigger group is pure D crapola - get the Red Star Arms trigger group and hammer kit ($79) from www.redstararms.com and save yourself a lot of grief and trigger slap not to mention getting a quality adjustable trigger to boot.  I've got the same installed in my SAR-3 and it's tops.  As for mags - Weiger is what you want - NOTHING ELSE.  Get them from www.interordnance.com.  They'll cost you about $15 each if you buy the 4-pack.  Hope you get one off of the next shipment, those AK guys are really licking their chops for these.  One more thing, go ahead and buy the club membership with the Sportsmans guide.  You'll find yourself ordering the SA battlepacks quite regularly :)

Good Luck

Hardwood

Vepr K in 223

SAR1...7.62x33...

Cheap ammo,
cheap mags and

loads of fun

I'll agree that the 5.45 SAR-2 is a fine rifle.  But if you want .223, don't be afraid of the SAR-3.  You may need to replace the hammer to get good geometry, but that's $8 plus $5 shipping.  Not hard to do.  

Then you won't have a new caliber to deal with; you can use your existing AR ammo. And you'll have a tad bit more reach than a SAR-2.  

I've had a -3 for over a year and really enjoy it.

If you plan on going with a SAR, get it in hand before you buy it.

Turn the rifle over and take a look at the barrel to receiver to make sure that there on the same index/plain.  Then take a look at the front sight to the receiver to make sure that the sight is not canted.  Also check the front sight mark on the front of the tower to see if it is in the center or off to the side. A few of the SAR's have trunions that are drill off index  and sight are canted to get the sights to line up with POA.

As for the POS USA fire control group that was put in the rifle to get it to comply to 922, here is the fix.

http://blackrifle.gunsnet.net/triggerslap.htm