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Posted: 1/15/2008 10:38:32 PM EST
i just dont hear much about it these days especially in any new firearms coming out....does anyone use it, or have experience with it?
Link Posted: 1/15/2008 10:48:39 PM EST
fizzled? same as 9mm/40/45 solution to non problem?
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 8:16:11 AM EST
Still used by a lot of LEOs all over the country.
But I think it died off as the latest super round.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 8:45:18 AM EST
They buried it next to the .45 G.A.P.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 8:50:08 AM EST
It was a great idea and it offered awesome ballistics and performance but the lack of promotion and the high cost of ammunition coupled with it being harder to reload for since it is a necked case sent it practically the way of the dodo bird.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 9:22:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Waldo0506:
They buried it next to the .45 G.A.P.


G.A.P. = terrible idea for a new cartridge.

Although I did hear that it performs very close to a regular .45 ACP. Still, why fix something that isn't broken.

Sorry for the hijack.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 9:24:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gelgoog:
i just dont hear much about it these days especially in any new firearms coming out....does anyone use it, or have experience with it?


How so? Offered with XDs, M&Ps, etc... not the first in the pipeline of course but still going. I like the 357 Sig.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 9:40:50 AM EST
A Glock 31 with 6 full high cap. mags, Mag-Lite and utility knife make up the major portion of my truck kit. I like the cartridge and attendant firepower provided by the 31. The .357 Sig is a good cartridge especially if you like the idea of a high cap mag giving you the ability for 13 powerful, aimed shots.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 10:01:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Waldo0506:
They buried it next to the .45 G.A.P.


The 357 Sig was more useful than that joke of a 45 round....GAP...the space between the ears of the person(s) who came up with that round.

S.O.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 11:27:08 AM EST
Considering some of the +p+ 9mm loads available now (Like the Winchster 127 grn JHP +p+) there is little need for the .357 Sig.

Modern 9mm handguns can handle very very hot loaded 9mm ammunition and the case can easily take it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 5:38:07 PM EST
It's still very much alive and popular with Highway Patrol types because of it's vehicle penetration.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 7:31:55 AM EST
I still like it and use it. I think a lot of people were turned off do to the recoil. It is a lot different than shooting a 9mm or the 45.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 8:21:37 AM EST
The only alternative full power cartiage is a 10mm Auto, nuff said.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 9:04:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
The only alternative full power cartiage is a 10mm Auto, nuff said.

Not really… The .357 Sig offers nothing over the .38 Super!

Now the 38 Super has been around for 87 years and has never proven to be a "powerful performer"

The 357 Sig is no different.

It is just another case of awesome numbers that just never live up to expectations…
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 10:31:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Parrot32:

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
The only alternative full power cartiage is a 10mm Auto, nuff said.

Not really… The .357 Sig offers nothing over the .38 Super!

Now the 38 Super has been around for 87 years and has never proven to be a "powerful performer"

The 357 Sig is no different.

It is just another case of awesome numbers that just never live up to expectations…


Best performance comes from full power 10mm or 9x25mm. The 9x25 is just freak'n nuts. Thinking of having a barrel made for my 1066.

S.O.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 10:33:01 AM EST
fun out of G-35
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 11:23:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2008 11:24:52 AM EST by 2gunner]
parrot32...
Not really… The .357 Sig offers nothing over the .38 Super!



Horse shit !!! ever try a 115gr Gold Dot at 1700fps out of a Glock 31??
it's everything the 38 stupid never dreamed of being.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 11:25:43 AM EST
the South Carolina state troopers ( highway patrol ) just switch to the 45 GAP a couple of weeks ago from the 40 S&W.

just FYI

sorry to hijack the hijack
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 11:48:03 AM EST



ME state game wardens carry Sig's in .357 Sig.



Link Posted: 1/17/2008 11:49:51 AM EST
Norma spec 10mm Auto is nasty. 38 anything dont touch it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 12:15:17 PM EST
I carry a Sig 226 on duty in 357 and love the gun and caliber. Our Game Commission (Pa) switched to Glock 31’s a while ago. The Pa State Troopers just went to Glock pistols in 45 GAP. It looks like both calibers are going strong here in Pa law enforcement.
Link Posted: 1/17/2008 4:16:46 PM EST
Hehe, handled a Springer XD tactical in .45 gap a few years ago when the sales rep came to town.

He spoke highly of my handling a hard to find item. I grinned and bit my tongue at the laughter ensuing at all that .45 gap represents.

.357 sig. was/is a cool round with plenty of velocity and lots of performance. It's just not financially as tenable as the 9mm/.40 for departments.

Link Posted: 1/18/2008 2:51:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By 2gunner:
parrot32...
Not really… The .357 Sig offers nothing over the .38 Super!



Horse shit !!! ever try a 115gr Gold Dot at 1700fps out of a Glock 31??
it's everything the 38 stupid never dreamed of being.

You have been breathing too many fumes…

Hornady lists a 357 Sig: 115gr bullet at 1350fps MAX!

38 Super: 115gr at 1300fps MAX!

Even a 357 Mag: 110gr is listed at 1550fps!

The pressure needed to reach 1700frp would blow you and your Glock to pieces!
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 3:42:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Waldo0506:
They buried it next to the .45 G.A.P.


the sig round is nowhere near the gap on the dead and gone scale. It has its own loyal following but lots of major gun makers are still chambering the sig round
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 4:06:11 PM EST
I have a Sig 229 chambered in .357 Sig. I am glad I purchased a .40 SW barrel so that I can find ammo and can afford to shoot it. Not the most practical purchase I ever made. Kinda like that .400 Corbon barrel I have for my HK USP. Should have saved my money. Cant find the ammo anywhere locally and the cost is sky high.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 4:23:01 PM EST
I bought a Sig P239 with a .40 bbl and the free .357sig bbl.
I sold the .357 bbl and never thought about it again.

This is why http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/66866-7166-155.html

versus this for .40 http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/58002-8972-184.html
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 4:37:53 PM EST
From the double tapp ammo website.


3.5" barrel - 1494fps
4.5" barrel - 1612fps

Caliber : .357 Sig

Bullet : 115gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP

Ballistics : 1550fps / 614 ft. lbs. 4"bbl



You have been breathing too many fumes…

Hornady lists a 357 Sig: 115gr bullet at 1350fps MAX!

38 Super: 115gr at 1300fps MAX!

Even a 357 Mag: 110gr is listed at 1550fps!

The pressure needed to reach 1700frp would blow you and your Glock to pieces!



Looks like the sig has an edge in some loadings.

Heres the 147 grain loading.

3.5" barrel - 1213fps
4.5" barrel - 1296fps

Caliber : .357 Sig

Bullet : 147gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP

Ballistics : 1250fps / 510 ft. lbs. 4"bbl

Yep exactly the same as 9mm

Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:54:19 PM EST
I'v noteced all the .40 CPO Sigs have been coming with .357 berrels. I guess sig is trying to keep the .357 sig round alive. I for one like the cartredge. I just wish it was cheeper to shoot.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 10:56:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Luckystrike:
From the double tapp ammo website.


3.5" barrel - 1494fps
4.5" barrel - 1612fps

Caliber : .357 Sig

Bullet : 115gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP

Ballistics : 1550fps / 614 ft. lbs. 4"bbl



You have been breathing too many fumes…

Hornady lists a 357 Sig: 115gr bullet at 1350fps MAX!

38 Super: 115gr at 1300fps MAX!

Even a 357 Mag: 110gr is listed at 1550fps!

The pressure needed to reach 1700frp would blow you and your Glock to pieces!



Looks like the sig has an edge in some loadings.

Heres the 147 grain loading.

3.5" barrel - 1213fps
4.5" barrel - 1296fps

Caliber : .357 Sig

Bullet : 147gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP

Ballistics : 1250fps / 510 ft. lbs. 4"bbl

Yep exactly the same as 9mm



yep, the bashers are always full of misinformation. Even with WWB, I can get 1400fps from 125gr bullets through my G31.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 1:02:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2008 1:06:28 PM EST by omega62]
The .357 SIG gained some modest acceptance and is used by many agencies and departments as previous replies have noted. It is a potent cartridge, and there is no question about that.

However, from a standpoint of marketing (not ballistics!), it is somewhat of a marginal player.

The danger of buying into things that only have a marginal share of the market is that they have a much greater chance of just going away someday than products with a stronger market share do. If you are old enough to remember this, compare it to Betamax versus VHS 25 years ago. Betamax was marginal, not enough people were buying, and the entire format went under, leaving people who had bought Betamax machines burned - they didn't even make good boat anchors!

Back in 1985, the 10mm was the hottest new cartridge on the block, thanks largely to the Bren Ten, a TV cop show called Miami Vice, and a contract from the FBI.

Now I ask you, how many 10mm pistols do you see being sold today, and how much 10mm ammo do you see behind the counter at WAL-MART?

I'm not saying the .357 SIG is going to disappear, because it probably won't. But the skyrocketing price of ammo might not bode well for the future of cartridges that are more expensive to produce and have a lower production cost to sales ratio. That could cause the manufacturers to raise the prices on those less mainstream cartridges even more, which in turn could cause budget strapped departments to begin switching to more mainstream caliber weapons, which could set off a chain reaction that might lead to market extinction.

If you fancy a .357 SIG, get one! Life's short, and one must follow his passion. Even if it ever did go under, it might be cool to own an "extinct" pistol. Hell, I'd love to own a minty Bren Ten today.

Just keep the above in mind. As in all things, "Caveat Emptor."
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 1:10:12 PM EST
i love the that round... Pricey though

I was using a glock 32c. Man that thing had a muzzle flash and was one of the loudest pistols i ever shot.... BOOOOM... people i was with aske what the f... was that!!! hehe
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 1:58:11 PM EST
I like the cartridge, for what I wanted it was the best choice. Ammo isn't " that " expensive and deff not more than buying premium 9mm +P+ .

It will survive.....
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 2:31:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mateba:
yep, the bashers are always full of misinformation. Even with WWB, I can get 1400fps from 125gr bullets through my G31.


You wish!

Winchester only claims 1350fps for their ammo… (they don't say what the test was done with) - WW

The numbers I stated were from Hornady's reloading manual, 7th edition… Got a beef with that, take it up with them.

Likewise from Accurate Arms, for a 125gr bullet,no load reaches 1400fps! One Maximum load for No 9 nudges the 1400fps mark. In fact there are only 2 load exceeding 1400fps and they are with a 115gr bullet, Maximum load. Data was for a 4" - AA

Now I am sure that someone may able to find a manufactures 'claim' of 1400fps with a 125gr but I would more interested in someone who chronographed such a result…

And MY response was to someone wildly claiming a 115gr @ 1700fps…

I am not bashing the 357 Sig, just trying to quell these wild and ludicrous claims. Once the BS is cleared away, and the 357 Sig is seen for what it really is, there is no need to bash it.
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 7:10:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 7:29:23 AM EST
.357SIG is past its peak, and declining fast.

You couldn't dream up a better round for beancounters who make decisions. It has capacity, velocity, penetration, energy, and allows a small grip frame.

If I could shoot "for free" and Glock offered better chamber support, I would have no problem using .357SIG. Unfortunatley I'm retiring at 50 and love to shoot a lot. Hence, I'll stick with 9mm.
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 9:49:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

Originally Posted By Waldo0506:
They buried it next to the .45 G.A.P.


the sig round is nowhere near the gap on the dead and gone scale. It has its own loyal following but lots of major gun makers are still chambering the sig round

+1
Link Posted: 1/20/2008 3:14:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By ikor:
I have chrono'd CCI 124gr GDs thru my old G31 at an average of 1450+ with several different lots and they run 1385 out of my G32. Well beyond 9mm +P+ territory and right in line with the many, many lots of 357 Mag / 125 JHPs I have chrono'd in years past from 2 1/2 to 4in revolvers (1250-1450fps). No flies on the 357Sig with these bullets. I carry a G32 and prefer it to either my G19 or G23. JMO

I have no idea what those 'G' numbers represent and no interest to look into it…

I am curious what these unlisted brands were though??? After all WW claims 1350 fps and Cor-Bon doesn't ever list a 125gr load.

I also find it strange that reloading manuals don't meet these claims for the 357 Sig whereas they meet or exceed other cartridges such as 9mm, .357 Mag, 10mm and others.

I do not think you realize how odd it is for anyone to exceed factory and reloading published data!
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 1:49:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 2:16:32 AM EST
Joker1 carries 357 sig. Yes it has more recoil, flash and expense. Yes a 9mm +p approaches the ballistics but lags behind at about 200 fps in all weights (Doubletapammo.com). In handgun ballistics 200 fps is a big difference IMHO.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 4:18:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Parrot32:

Originally Posted By Mateba:
yep, the bashers are always full of misinformation. Even with WWB, I can get 1400fps from 125gr bullets through my G31.


You wish!

Winchester only claims 1350fps for their ammo… (they don't say what the test was done with) - WW

The numbers I stated were from Hornady's reloading manual, 7th edition… Got a beef with that, take it up with them.

Likewise from Accurate Arms, for a 125gr bullet,no load reaches 1400fps! One Maximum load for No 9 nudges the 1400fps mark. In fact there are only 2 load exceeding 1400fps and they are with a 115gr bullet, Maximum load. Data was for a 4" - AA

Now I am sure that someone may able to find a manufactures 'claim' of 1400fps with a 125gr but I would more interested in someone who chronographed such a result…

And MY response was to someone wildly claiming a 115gr @ 1700fps…

I am not bashing the 357 Sig, just trying to quell these wild and ludicrous claims. Once the BS is cleared away, and the 357 Sig is seen for what it really is, there is no need to bash it.



Originally Posted By Parrot32:

Originally Posted By ikor:
I have chrono'd CCI 124gr GDs thru my old G31 at an average of 1450+ with several different lots and they run 1385 out of my G32. Well beyond 9mm +P+ territory and right in line with the many, many lots of 357 Mag / 125 JHPs I have chrono'd in years past from 2 1/2 to 4in revolvers (1250-1450fps). No flies on the 357Sig with these bullets. I carry a G32 and prefer it to either my G19 or G23. JMO

I have no idea what those 'G' numbers represent and no interest to look into it…

I am curious what these unlisted brands were though??? After all WW claims 1350 fps and Cor-Bon doesn't ever list a 125gr load.

I also find it strange that reloading manuals don't meet these claims for the 357 Sig whereas they meet or exceed other cartridges such as 9mm, .357 Mag, 10mm and others.

I do not think you realize how odd it is for anyone to exceed factory and reloading published data!


You really have no clue as to what you're talking about. Try doing some actual chrono tests sometime.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:30:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 11:03:11 AM EST
ikor: Thank you for the explanations.

I have been Handloading for 42 years and may have bought 4 boxes of Factory Ammo in that time… My first Chronograph used metallic screens and required a lookup table to convert the result from cycles in Octal into fps. – After computers came along I wrote a program to do that.

Never saw anything in a Glock that could interest me, still don't. My .45 ACP and my 10mm and 40 S&W will do everything a 357 Sig can as Old_Painless has indicated.

The 357 Sig like any round has a passionate following and seems to me to be a pretty good cartridge. But in that it does not offer anything beyond several other cartridges, I don't see much of a future for it.

In the end, only time will tell.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 11:13:27 AM EST
I REALLY like the 357 SIG.

Unfortunately I can't really tell that it does anything in real world application that Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ can't do, and I can buy cheap commie blasting ammo for the 9mm, so I've never bought one.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 11:43:40 AM EST
USSS and FAM still using the P229 in 357 Sig?
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 11:50:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By GreenRifle:
USSS and FAM still using the P229 in 357 Sig?


Among other things.

.357 does well through cars. Other than that I'm not a fan. They are LOUD.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 12:38:24 PM EST
TX DPS uses the 357 SIG, also. They like it's ability to penetrate barriers.

I shot about 2 mags out of a 1911 in 357 SIG. I loved it. it was flat shooting, accurate and not much recoil in a full sized 1911. I started researching the cartridge.

What killed it for me was problems reloading for it. A bottle-neck cartridge that requires lube. A very short neck bearing surface for holding the bullet that translates into bullet setback problems under recoil unless sealent is used like the commercial manufacturers do. And it's performance is not that much superior to other cartidges that I already use and that cost less, 9, 40 and 45.

No room in my budget or safe for boutique cartridges without any clear advantages over existing ones.

Gringop
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 12:47:48 PM EST
gringop, in a 1911 9x23 is faster, can be reloaded and can use 147gr bullets. And its more reliable and holds more in the mag.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 6:17:30 PM EST
this cop let me fire a few .357 sig rounds thry his glock. i loved it, louder bang, not much more recoil than 9mm IMO.
thought about getting one for kicks-then saw the price for ammo and thought "i already have 9/40/45, why add to the logistical nightmare in the man-cave?"
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