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Posted: 10/25/2010 2:54:32 PM EDT
After about 87 day's My Gemtechs' are here, And i am loving it.
Do you have to carry a copy of the paper work, with them?
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 3:30:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By draco56:
After about 87 day's My Gemtechs' are here, And i am loving it.
Do you have to carry a copy of the paper work, with them?


when i got my can my dealer told me to make some colored copies and cary one whenever i had the suppressor with me. i made five copies and just keep them in the cases i use. keep youe original in a safe place.

Link Posted: 10/25/2010 4:05:25 PM EDT
I have full size copies of all my stamps in a binder behind the seat of my truck.
I also carry 1/4 size copies in the grip of my rifles for the SBR and suppressor stamp.

Better to have them and not need them, than need them and not have them.
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 4:31:16 PM EDT
But the law would be?
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 5:24:20 PM EDT
There is nothing in the NFA requiring paperwork to be on hand to my knowledge.


And I have heard that a color copy can be illegal on the grounds of replicating a stamp or something like that.  I have black and white copies, and some copies shrunk down for my wallet.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 6:51:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 6:54:38 AM EDT by Terrato]
For information about your states laws, you might want to post your question in your hometown forum as well.

In my experience, city and state level LEOs have very little knowledge of their own state laws regarding firearms in general, and NFA stuff in particular.  Having copies of your paperwork and being able to calmly articulate the reasons why your possessions are legal could save you a lot of wasted time and grief when dealing with law enforcement - even if providing that paperwork to the officer is not required by statute.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 8:05:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 8:06:10 AM EDT by r-2-k-b-a]
Originally Posted By draco56:
But the law would be?


Carry a copy of your forms. Is it required by FEDERAL LAW? No. HOWEVER, If you do not, expect your items to be either seized, or if during daytime hours, verified via telephone by your friendly local police officer with a call to the NFA branch.

In almost any state, it's illegal to possess a " silencer ". In some states like PA, you must carry your forms.  Your DEFENSE to being prosecuted is that it's registered however if you can't show that it is with your form copy, or a call to NFA branch, you will likely lose it to the local PD property room until it's verified. I carry copies of my forms when out-and-about with my NFA items, so should you.

Your choice.



Link Posted: 10/26/2010 8:15:39 AM EDT
Is it required?  No
Is it a good idea? Definitely, if some range-nazi shows up wanting to give you a hard time, show them your papers and tell them to get lost.  
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 8:53:07 AM EDT
the only person you are required, by law, to show your form(s) to is an ATF officer.

Link Posted: 10/26/2010 8:58:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2010 9:02:57 AM EDT by CBR900]
Good idea to carry it.  

If requested by an agent of the BATFE, you may be required to show them proof of your tax payment.  Tax documents are otherwise private.

Most other LEOs are ignorant of the privacy of tax documents.  A simple solution is to show them a copy of your documentation and I suggest you do so. Again - CALMLY explain its meaning & in a pinch, offer to call BATFE on the phone right there on the spot.   Local LEO's understanding of the NFA varies from little to none in most cases.  Please understand that they are trying to do their job & no officer can know everything (particularly regarding federal law).  There may also be applicable state laws to consider & in some states, you may be required to show them other documents too (ie state registration proof where required).  Just cooperate & understand that the popularity of title II ownership is growing.

If a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL, such as a self-appointed "range officer,' demands to see any proof of legally owned title II firearms, you can tell them to pound sand.  If they own the range you are using, you may be asked to leave & you should do so (find someplace else to shoot).  If it is your club, write down their name and report them to the BOD backed by a stern complaint.  

Alternatively, you could demand to see their proof of their lawful ownership of their gun.  Tell them you suspect they are breaking the law & need to see proof of ownership. Because they have a gun. That's why.

This usually results in a blank stare or a "WTF??" expression.  When they ask: why would you think that, respond with the question: "why would YOU suspect my title II gun is anything other than lawfully owned?"  Then inform them: "You really have NO reason to suspect such a thing.  Therefore, you really do not have any reason or need to 'see my paperwork!'"  

I am tired of reading all the reports of citizens disrespecting the 2nd Amendment rights of other citizens.  Don't let this slide if it happens to you.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 9:18:48 AM EDT
I always carry a copy of my forms.

Has anyone ever been hassled or asked for their forms?

I have had local SWAT teams shoot my SBR and can at my range without even a second look.
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 10:22:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scalce:
I always carry a copy of my forms.

Has anyone ever been hassled or asked for their forms?

I have had local SWAT teams shoot my SBR and can at my range without even a second look.


Local deputies thought my silencer was slicker than dog shit on wet grass, but freaked out that my Remington 1917 that was re-barreled back in the 50's didn't have a serial number.  The guy hadn't even heard of the GCA of '68.  (for the record non-NFA firearms made or modified before the GCA don't need a serial number)
Link Posted: 10/26/2010 12:00:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Originally Posted By Scalce:
I always carry a copy of my forms.

Has anyone ever been hassled or asked for their forms?

I have had local SWAT teams shoot my SBR and can at my range without even a second look.


Local deputies thought my silencer was slicker than dog shit on wet grass, but freaked out that my Remington 1917 that was re-barreled back in the 50's didn't have a serial number.  The guy hadn't even heard of the GCA of '68.  (for the record non-NFA firearms made or modified before the GCA don't need a serial number)


True.  

Helped out at a dealership that dealt with a lot of antiques & old guns.  Prior to GCA 68, it was common to see .22 rifles & some inexpensive shotguns without  ser. numbers.  After GCA 68, an individual can still make a gun (AK, AR, handgun) for his own use with NO serial number.  But, due to the typical LEO "freak-out" you encountered, it is wise to stamp a fake, ficticious, made-up, pretend number on any gun you make yourself.

Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:24:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
the only person you are required, by law, to show your form(s) to is an ATF officer.




Yes, but those are not the ones who are going to hook you up and throw you in the local county Jail. The odds you encounter an ATF agent are much lower than your local police officer.



Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:26:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By r-2-k-b-a:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
the only person you are required, by law, to show your form(s) to is an ATF officer.




Yes, but those are not the ones who are going to hook you up and throw you in the local county Jail. The odds you encounter an ATF agent are much lower than your local police officer.





you are absolutely right.  it's why i italicized 'required'.  i have had issues with regular firearms in MS, I can't imagine what would happen if I refused to show them my forms. they would flip.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 3:48:02 PM EDT
I aways carry my papers.  With that said, I always enjoy an engaging discussion about Reasonably Articulated Suspicions, Probable Cause and 4th and 5th amendment rights. In the Great State of Florida SBR, SBS, and MGs are illegal unless registered IAW NFA34, but AOWs and silencers are fine under state statutes.  Of course the local po po assumes silencers are illegal also...eveyone knows that civilians can't own silencers right!  Ever see a po po trying to find a nonexistent statute.  Now all of this fun usually occurs on a private range where the po po are invited guests, but could be asked to leave and then arrested by a civilian member for the felony of armed trespass.  Again this is always an exciting topic of discussion.  

I can alway use some entertainment on a Saturday afternoon.

Just Sayin!
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 4:29:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2010 4:29:37 PM EDT by MidwestJ]
Originally Posted By CBR900:
Alternatively, you could demand to see their proof of their lawful ownership of their gun.  Tell them you suspect they are breaking the law & need to see proof of ownership. Because they have a gun. That's why.

This usually results in a blank stare or a "WTF??" expression.  When they ask: why would you think that, respond with the question: "why would YOU suspect my title II gun is anything other than lawfully owned?"  Then inform them: "You really have NO reason to suspect such a thing.  Therefore, you really do not have any reason or need to 'see my paperwork!'"  

I am tired of reading all the reports of citizens disrespecting the 2nd Amendment rights of other citizens.  Don't let this slide if it happens to you.



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