Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 11/19/2008 4:33:06 AM EDT



considering the current state of affairs (long lead-times with the NFA and changing administration), i got wondering about the 86 machine gun ban. some of you guys that were around and buying guns back in those days, help me understand what happened to/with MG's that were pending, or had the checks cashed but were not yet pending...

did the ATF just say "tough shit" and reject the forms? did they process all the ones that had already had checks cashed before X-date?


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:58:49 AM EDT
Guns in the system before the cut-of date were sold before the cut-off date for trnasferrable MGs.  I can't think of a way that transfers would have been rejected.

I understand what you are talking about regarding a possible upcoming ban, but the situation didn't apply in 86.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:12:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Eight:
Guns in the system before the cut-of date were sold before the cut-off date for trnasferrable MGs.  I can't think of a way that transfers would have been rejected.

I understand what you are talking about regarding a possible upcoming ban, but the situation didn't apply in 86.


how do you mean "in the system"? as in, forms recieved? as in check cashed? as in already pending?


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:17:42 AM EDT
A MG couldn't be bought if it was made after a certain date.  Either it was made before, or it wasn't.  I'm not sure of the requirements for manufacturers to prove it was made before a certain date (Form 1s, or whatever they use be submitted before a cut-off date?).

People buying MGs bought MGs made before the cut-off date.  Didn't matter when they bought them, or where there forms were on the cut-off date.  As long as the MG was made prior to the cut-off, it didn't matter when the forms were submitted for an individual to buy it.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 8:44:18 AM EDT
The people who would've had the most to lose would have been those who had a Form 1, "application to manufacture a machinegun" in the system near May 19, 1986. I don't know the specific point in the application process that a cutoff was mandated on 5/19/86, but am sure there was one.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 9:02:14 AM EDT


Originally Posted By bullyforyou:






considering the current state of affairs (long lead-times with the NFA and changing administration), i got wondering about the 86 machine gun ban. some of you guys that were around and buying guns back in those days, help me understand what happened to/with MG's that were pending, or had the checks cashed but were not yet pending...



did the ATF just say "tough shit" and reject the forms? did they process all the ones that had already had checks cashed before X-date?





Congress said "tough shit".



The MG ban was the only portion for the FOPA86 that took effect immediately. They rest was delayed 6 months or so.



F4s continue to go through as today. F1s/F2s were either registered by 05/19 or they were not. Many F2s were removed weeks/months later when inspections revealed they were not really made yet.
 
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 9:37:50 AM EDT
Some of the information is incorrect.  

The date of manufacture has nothing to do with FOPA 86 ban.  It was/is the registration date.  I wish it was the other way around though.  There would be a lot more machine guns than what there are now.

As to the question.  I believe Tony has said that they went by the post date on the application.  So all the form 1's that were sent to the BATF prior to 5/19/86 were accepted.  I may not recall that correctly.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:02:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 10:16:23 AM EDT by Kharn]
I'm not sure on Form 1s, but I know the ATF inspected all the SOTs that filed batches of Form 2s and checked each MG to make sure it was completed.  Lots of serial-numbered chunks of metal were declared "not yet an MG" and struck from the registry.

Form 2s are a report the weapon was built, while Form 1s ask permission to build the weapon, thus the ability of the ATF to audit them and declare the weapons incomplete.

Kharn
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 3:11:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Magoo6541:
Some of the information is incorrect.  

The date of manufacture has nothing to do with FOPA 86 ban.  It was/is the registration date.  I wish it was the other way around though.  There would be a lot more machine guns than what there are now.

As to the question.  I believe Tony has said that they went by the post date on the application.  So all the form 1's that were sent to the BATF prior to 5/19/86 were accepted.  I may not recall that correctly.


This is what I have always been told was correct.  Well... sort of...  I actually was told by someone who was registering all he could at the time said the ATF had to have it in hand and in the "system" by a certain date.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:38:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By firebugfab:
Originally Posted By Magoo6541:
Some of the information is incorrect.  

The date of manufacture has nothing to do with FOPA 86 ban.  It was/is the registration date.  I wish it was the other way around though.  There would be a lot more machine guns than what there are now.

As to the question.  I believe Tony has said that they went by the post date on the application.  So all the form 1's that were sent to the BATF prior to 5/19/86 were accepted.  I may not recall that correctly.


This is what I have always been told was correct.  Well... sort of...  I actually was told by someone who was registering all he could at the time said the ATF had to have it in hand and in the "system" by a certain date.



that's what i was getting at. i slipped up when i asked the question and unintentionally included form 4's... obviously they would transfer the same. they are either made before may 19th, or not. wouldn't impact them.

it would have only impacted F1's.


Top Top