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Posted: 12/20/2002 12:30:02 AM EDT
[#1]
I went with the Springfield M1A. It's reliable,Semi auto, Plenty of available accessories and parts, I go with USGI m14 mags. Not cheap but very reliable. I haven't had any good luck with any after market mags.
Different Brands at different prices. My son has a polytech and it shoots as good as my springfield. Lot's of different good rifles out there to consider. |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 1:19:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Consider the $600 VEPR.
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Posted: 12/20/2002 3:30:28 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm VERY happy with my DS Arms FN-FAL. The mags are cheap (recently bought 10 NIW for $100) and availability isn't a problem. Parts are also cheap and very available. Oh yea, I'm talking about metric pattern rifles. But it appears inch pattern (like the L1A1) are available and cheap too.
I'm very pleased with the accuracy of the rifle. It doesn't seem to be real ammo sensative (unlike the AR-10s I've seen). You can adjust the gas port, which is a plus in certain conditions. Plus you can get the rifle in many different configurations. I bought the StG-58 for $969 before tax. I vote FAL. It seems to meet all your requirements. |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 6:01:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Ar10 - Ok, so the mags are expensive, and so are the rifles, but it is too cool.
It's also very accurate. My second choice would be an M1A. Tony |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 10:35:23 AM EDT
[#5]
1. FAL meets this criteria 2. Ditto 3. Ditto 4. NIW mags 9.99 all day long 5. Go with metric for parts availability 6. If you are a WECSOGER you can get a FAL together for <$700. New DSA FALs are in the same range as the M1A |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 10:49:43 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 12/20/2002 12:31:34 PM EDT
[#7]
The DSA StG58 FAL meets your requirements. Dealer price is about $780
The M1A is also a fine choice. Although more expensive, it does have better iron sights and potentially better accuracy than the FAL. Another alternative, roughly on a price par with the StG58 would be to buy a barreled action from CMP, install a synthetic stock, and re-barrel to 7.62 NATO. This would yield a 7.62 M1 Garand. Any one of the above would be a fine battle rifle in trained hands. |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 12:37:31 PM EDT
[#8]
FAL
M14 AR10 G3 In that order... |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 12:39:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Oh and don't overlook the M1 Garand!
Clips be dirt cheap! |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 2:27:45 PM EDT
[#10]
I thought I read somewhere that fals had problems with breaking firing pins? Please correct me if I'm wrong..
Thanks |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 2:43:37 PM EDT
[#11]
I have have been playing with FAL's for 13 years. Never had any FP problems. A few of my FAL's have over 25k through them...
(And if you did DSA wants 10.00 for 1 piece and 15.00 for 2 piece.) |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 2:45:41 PM EDT
[#12]
This is a no brainer! M1A1 If you want cheap FAL.
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Posted: 12/20/2002 2:46:51 PM EDT
[#13]
1 of each, of course!
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Posted: 12/20/2002 6:00:11 PM EDT
[#14]
This meets some of your criteria, but is pretty much off the bitchen scale:
 Yes, I have returned. Temporarily. |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 7:06:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Dayamn CitadelGrad, personal PSG1?
FN-FAL or DSA STG58 or Imbel or Century L1A1. pricing tends to go in that order. 1st being most expensive. Springfield M1A if you're willing to shell out the dough. |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 7:35:40 PM EDT
[#16]
i belive thats a psg1 clone acually. im not sure though. could be SG-1 or a 91 base with upgraded stock and trigger group ( that dosnt look like a psg1 stock, maybe msg90)
edited to add: bitchin as hell rifle edeited again to add: i'd hit it |
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Posted: 12/20/2002 7:42:54 PM EDT
[#17]
$995
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Posted: 12/20/2002 8:15:55 PM EDT
[#18]
DSA FAL. Period. The thing is sweet and it gets everyone's attention at the place I shoot. More so than my AR or my AK. I suggest a 18" barrel and an Ergo grip.
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Posted: 12/21/2002 7:14:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Close, but not quite. It's an HK SR9T, factory configuration. Basically a postban HK91 with PSG1 trigger, Grip, and, as Mattsd pointed out, an MSG90 stock. I recently upgraded to SR9TC configuration, with a PSG1 stock, but now it's REALLY heavy. |
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Posted: 12/21/2002 11:32:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Citadelgrad,
Sweet.. What did that cost? Are the iron sights on an FAL good? |
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Posted: 12/21/2002 11:33:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Nice none the less  The PSG trigger is what caught my attention. What kind of glass you gotmounted? |
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Posted: 12/21/2002 11:50:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Glass is a Trashco Sooper Sniper.
I only call it that 'cuz I have one too and love it. Great scope for the money. I've heard not so flattering things about the newer ones though. Mine's about 5 years old and is great.Citadel, Nice stick. |
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Posted: 12/21/2002 9:44:49 PM EDT
[#23]
I say got for the M1A.
The FAL, is cheaper. And so are the mags. But it is not as accurate. And it doesn't feel as natural. At least to me. I had a very nice custom built paratrooper FAL. And thought it was great. Until I got to spend an afternoon with an M1A. It didn't take me but a few days to trade off my FAL for an M1A. THe only thing the FAL has going for it over the M1A is the mag cost. If you can deal with that, the M1A is the way to go. |
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Posted: 12/21/2002 10:55:22 PM EDT
[#24]
I dunno, aren't FALs lighter than most M1As?
I was also under the impression that FALs are more versatile and have more configuration possibilities. I have also heard that FALs are easier to maintain and clean but don't have enough M1A experience to know either way. I do know that they break down and clean in a snap however. Lastly, I think that the adjustable gas system is a sweet FAL feature not on the M1A |
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Posted: 12/22/2002 8:15:56 AM EDT
[#25]
FAL! Do not resist! AB |
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Posted: 12/22/2002 2:26:26 PM EDT
[#26]
93 countries adopted the FAL.
1 country adopted the M14 (the US). And the US did a test before the M14 was adopted, pitting the FAL vs the M14. The FAL won. But the M14 was procured anyway, because it was designed by the US Ordnance department and not by a foreign country. That decision lead to the end of the Ordnance department. The M1A (a semi-auto only and very slightly modified M14) has a few advantages over the FAL: better iron sights, the availability of better match triggers, and a more conventional, "politically correct" appearance. The FAL is more reliable, easier to clean and maintain, can be equally accurate. It is MUCH easier to add optics to, and much better designed to accomidate them. It is a better field rifle, more ergonomic, and magazines and other parts are currently inexpensive and widely available. They didn't call the FAL "the Right Arm of the Free World" for nothing! -Troy |
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Posted: 12/22/2002 3:24:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Rent one of each or find a way to shoot an FN-FAL and an M1A side by side. I HATE the FN's stock . I can't shoot the damn things well at all. The M1A would be my choice but please go & shoot them side by side prior to spending your $$$$$$$$.
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Posted: 12/22/2002 3:38:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Troy,
Curious, how does one accurize an FAL? How much recoil compared to an M14? I would have to say if someone is going to shoot iron sights, I think the M14 is the way to go. But mounting a scope on one is a pain in the ass. Once you do, you MUST use some kind of raised cheekpiece. And unless you have an adjustable stock, this means you can't get down to where the irons are if you need to. I've never had a FAL. Maybe time to change that. |
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Posted: 12/22/2002 4:03:22 PM EDT
[#29]
The funniest thing happened at the range today. Me and Green18 were blasting away with our Springfield Armory M1A's (he has a Standard, I have a Scout), some guy a couple of points down was shooting a CETME. The iron sights on the M1A's are accurate and continue to impress me. I can also slap on an Aimpoint for when I really feel like emptying the 20 rounders downrange. What about the guy with the CETME? He was absolutely 100% miserable trying to sight his CETME in(one of the main reasons I got rid of mine). So what's my point? I guess this is one of those, "you get what you pay for" deals. Granted, the M1A costs waaaay more but the rifle has been flawless and a total joy to own and shoot so far.
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Posted: 12/22/2002 11:31:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Some cool FAL stuff.
 Of course, the folding stock is a preban/LEO only item, and this one is FA and/or an SBR. But DSA makes a flattop, forearm rails, and a bunch of other high-quality items to modernize your FAL.   I strongly recommend the version that's drilled for (and comes with) the Brass Savr:  But, that's just me. :) -Troy |
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Posted: 12/22/2002 11:37:13 PM EDT
[#31]
A lot like the AR15, meaning that the barrel is the most important part of the gun. If you're looking for super-ultra accuracy, you'll want a heavy barrel made from a high-end match blank. There are even free-float handguards available. And of course, a flattop-rail on top for optics. But I much prefer the standard lightweight barrels. They will give virtually identical accuracy performance as a standard "mil-spec" M1A, which is plenty, considering that we're talking about a "scoot 'n shoot" rifle, not a sniper rifle. -Troy |
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Posted: 12/23/2002 6:26:35 AM EDT
[#32]
In addition to the valid points made by Troy, I would like to point out that both FSE and DSA have two stage "match" triggers in the works for the FAL. The 'sloppy' battle rifle trigger has been a frequent complaint among M1A and other 'match' rifle shooters. The new triggers forthcoming from FSE and DSA will allegedly remedy this longstanding deficiency.
OTOH, my FAL trigger is good enough for me. Not sure anyone addressed the recoil question but I can say that the FAL is among the lowest recoiling .30 rifles I have ever fired. Certainly much less recoil than an M1 Garand or .303 enfield. Because it's been awhile since I've fired a USGI .30 carbine I hesitate to say that the FAL recoil is as light as that but it's surprisingly mild in any case. This light recoil is supposed to be one of the benefits of the adjustable gas system. On the front of the rifle around the gas plug there is a click-adjustable ring that regulates the amount of gas vented from the system. Opening the vent reduces the amount of gas used to operate the action which in turn is supposed to reduce the amount of wear on the action from excessive rearward force and is also supposed to reduce recoil. The FAL v M1A question has been debated more than the origins of life, I think. One thing I love about my FAL that has absolutely nothing to do with function is the fact that when you take it out, people gawk and wonder what is that evil looking thing. Anyone interested in a FAL would be well advised to spend some time at the www.falfiles.com message boards. |
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Posted: 12/23/2002 6:54:37 AM EDT
[#33]
M1A the only way to go. Mine is the easiest rifle I have ever shot! I also have an Imbel FAL but the M1A is the better rifle.
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Posted: 12/23/2002 10:02:57 AM EDT
[#34]
If you are used to an AR15, then AR10 is the only way to go. All parts look the same, just bigger. Cost is between an FAL and an M1A. I have a flat top with extra high Millett rings (same as on an AR15). Put a Weaver Classic 4-16 x 40 in them. Baby is sweet!!
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Posted: 12/23/2002 1:46:02 PM EDT
[#35]
dsa ....all the way....sub minute groups(even w/surplus ammo) and great iron sights.
and all the other stuff everybody said. i have 2 and i'm getting a carbine next, my 24" bull barrel in stainless is sweet. and i've owned or fired all the others.would post pics if i could figure out how( i just lurk here once in a while) |
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Posted: 12/23/2002 2:09:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Check out the new DPMS .308 AR style and resonably priced.
www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=90&Product_ID=5288&CATID=493 |
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Posted: 12/23/2002 10:14:01 PM EDT
[#37]
  Post-ban FAL Imbel (Brazilian) parts kit on DSA Type 2 upper receiver and European walnut furniture. Fake Browning flash suppressor. Gabe |
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Posted: 12/24/2002 2:32:18 AM EDT
[#38]
The G3 is more reliable than the FAL. I have had both and still like the G3 better.
Many countries adopted the FAL but left it in the 80s. G3s are still being made in many Countries and fielded to firts line tropps. FALs are great but they can't be modernized as much as a G3. Just look at this baby:  Picture from HK pro.com |
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Posted: 12/24/2002 6:31:11 AM EDT
[#39]
DSA FAL, and it meets all of your requirements
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Posted: 12/24/2002 6:35:01 AM EDT
[#40]
A CETME is no HK91. You do get what you pay for. |
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Posted: 12/24/2002 2:48:28 PM EDT
[#41]
www.vandenbergcustom.com
Ed makes nice FAL's with improved triggers & he will put a Shilen barrel on there with his custom free-float tube if you want. I know he's made some in .243 & I think 260 Remington. He also makes a modified AR15A2 rear sight that slides onto the FAL. DSA I think sells a similiar item as well as improved front sights too. |
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Posted: 12/24/2002 5:47:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Not entirely true. Taiwan and South Korea both adopted the M14 briefly before switching to the M16A1. South Korea now uses a Daewoo Assault Rifle, while Taiwan is still using the older version of the M16. After the US discontinued production of the M14. Taiwan bought the equipment used to manufacture the M14 from TRW. West Germany initially adopted the FAL then switched to the HK G3. As for reliability...I think that the M14 is more reliable when it comes to operating in sandy conditions. The Israeli's were disappointed by the FAL's performance during the 1967 and 1973 Wars. Perversely..the British incorporated Sand Cuts on the Bolt Carriers of their L1A1's while the Israeli's didn't. Israel = Desert Britain != Desert |
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Posted: 12/24/2002 7:58:42 PM EDT
[#43]
All I can say is my AR10A2 carbine. Was worth every penny. Armalite in .308 was the birth of the M16. Designer; Eugen Stoner
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Posted: 12/25/2002 11:21:26 AM EDT
[#44]
I know this may not be the best discussion for my question, but since the FAL has come up, is the inch reciever any better than a metric? The only real difference I could see was in the magazine so do the metric mags fit as well and tightly in the gun?
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Posted: 12/25/2002 1:05:40 PM EDT
[#45]
The metric mags will fit in the inch upper receiver, but they will be loose and wobble around. As you've already noted, the lug on the front of metric mags is much smaller than on the inch-pattern mags. Inch mags will *not* fit in a metric upper. Metric mags, parts kits, and upper receivers are much more plentiful (and less expensive) than inch-pattern ones. Excellent condition aluminum and steel 20-rd mags are commonly available for $4.50 each. The Austrian Stg-58 kits are considered to be the best metric kits, with Imbel (Brazilian) a close second. The former West German G1's were sent to Turkey when they were replaced by the G3's, and were pretty much abused by the Turkish conscripts. For more info, check out the FAL Files Forums: www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php HTH, Gabe Back to our regular programming 
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Posted: 12/28/2002 7:57:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Another vote for the AR-10. I like the FAL alot...I mean alot but I like my AR-10 a tad bit better. I had a love affair with the G3 for many years until I started shooting a friend's FAL. The lack of a bolt hold open device really does it for me. The sights on both the FAL and G3 are the real short coming of these rifles with the FAL being the worst of the two. The AR-10 is every bit as accurate as a match M1A and you don't have to worry about bedding issues, plus the mounting of optics is very easy. If you use and like an AR-15, then choice is easy.
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Posted: 12/28/2002 12:47:42 PM EDT
[#47]
1. Reliable - The Timex type
2. Semi auto 3. accessories (stocks, slings, etc) 4. cheap good quality magazine availability 5. Replacement parts availability 6. Cost/availability That would be the FAL. The M1A, which I have and love, doesn't fit number 4 as you're looking at $35 magazines vice the FAL's at $5. Parts are available for both but the FAL's are much cheaper. The cost of a good FAL is about $800, the M1A about $1200. |
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