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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/23/2005 9:00:37 PM EDT
I'm sure this has been covered but I couldn't find it in a search (feel free to direct me to the topic). I am looking for a 308 carbine to supplement my custom PSS rifle. It seems that the AR platform is the most practical but I am open to suggestions. I'm wanting a 16-18" barrel (preferably NOT a bull profile) and the ability to have it threaded for sharing a silencer with the PSS. It will have optics like a Trijicon reflex (something fast with illumination). I also would like to be able to upgrade the trigger or get something like my RRA 2 stage. It also needs a collapsible stock as I will often be using it with a heavy winter coat.

The intended purpose is for varmint calling in Alaska...where the response might be a fox, multiple wolves or even a bear. One guy sets up for long range and the other guy is ready for fast multiple shots.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:04:38 PM EDT
AR 10 with an ACOG and a Magpul M93........
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:16:21 PM EDT
I wasn't familiar with the Magpul M93. I'm reading a review of it now and it sounds pretty good. I like the increased surface area of the buttpad and the angle of it. How much do these cost?
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:28:10 PM EDT
You can pick one up new for around $200. Its expensive, but extremely sturdy and the wide butt plate should be soft on the shoulder. You'd need an AR10 buffer and spring too, for a carbine. Not the rifle length parts.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:32:41 PM EDT
Thanks for the info CJ. Any particular recommendations on ACOG's? My optical experience is with scopes not the optical sights. I kind of like the idea of a triangle or chevron for fast aiming at close range.

Are the armalites able to have their triggers changed?
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 10:10:21 PM EDT
I had that exact setup but I like an HK 91 set up with a retractable stock better. $4 mags are nice as well.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 10:21:37 PM EDT
I like $4 mags too but don't you think you could buy a lot of them with the money you saved from NOT buying a H&K? I've got a collector friend with a number of H&K's, Sig rifles, Augs, etc. that I have access to (and will probably be selling for him later). That's just a lot of money for a gun to take into the woods. Of course, none of this stuff is cheap. What kind of accuracy are you getting from your 91? Optics? While you're at it, tell me why you like the H&K better.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 10:30:32 PM EDT
HK rifles kinda suck. The controls are very poor in comparison.

Armalite triggers can be swapped, very easily. They use AR15 FCGs.

I would look for a TA11 or TA55 ACOG calibrated for .308 and a flat top mount. The 4x TA31s do not have the eye relief for use on a .308. I speak from experience
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 11:08:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
HK rifles kinda suck. The controls are very poor in comparison.

Armalite triggers can be swapped, very easily. They use AR15 FCGs.

I would look for a TA11 or TA55 ACOG calibrated for .308 and a flat top mount. The 4x TA31s do not have the eye relief for use on a .308. I speak from experience



How do you figure that? with a push button mag release they are virtually identical to the AR platform with the added benefit of the bolt on the left side so that you NEVER need to come off target. Go with a PTR 91 and you are cheaper than an AR10 by several hundred dollars.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 11:49:28 PM EDT
mags too

$3 vs $35

i like the AR10 option b/c it uses the same controls as the AR15 and the armalite is availble w/ better scope mounting options and a chrome-LINED bbl option

HK/PTR-91, its nice too but lacks a nice trigger, that wierd cocking handle up front, and the lack of an available chrome lined bbl

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 12:58:29 AM EDT
The HK mag release is too far forward for me to hit with my index finger. The safety is a bit of a reach, and the knob right behind the stock likes to contact my eyeball under recoil.

Hk's are not a scope friendly platform. They don't take float rails as easily, and the iron sights, frankly, suck. AR's are more accurate anyway.

The triggers are heavy and creepy, and they can't be replaced with drop ins... they require smithing.

The collapsible stocks feel like absolute crap, and they offer no adjustment in length of pull. They are either in or out.

The fluted chamber of the HK trashes brass, and they don't like to run on all ammo. You have to hit it in the seet spot or you have a bolt gun.

Basically, the HK reached the peak of its development almost 50 years ago, and the AR is still going strong.

Go ahead and get the HK if you want to save a couple bucks on mags. YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:03:02 AM EDT
Get a good FAL.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:25:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The HK mag release is too far forward for me to hit with my index finger. The safety is a bit of a reach, and the knob right behind the stock likes to contact my eyeball under recoil.

Hk's are not a scope friendly platform. They don't take float rails as easily, and the iron sights, frankly, suck. AR's are more accurate anyway.

The triggers are heavy and creepy, and they can't be replaced with drop ins... they require smithing.

The collapsible stocks feel like absolute crap, and they offer no adjustment in length of pull. They are either in or out.

The fluted chamber of the HK trashes brass, and they don't like to run on all ammo. You have to hit it in the seet spot or you have a bolt gun.

Basically, the HK reached the peak of its development almost 50 years ago, and the AR is still going strong.

Go ahead and get the HK if you want to save a couple bucks on mags. YMMV.

I am sorry, but I can't take it anymore. I was going to let it go, but against my better judgement I must respond. The only true statements CombatJack has made above are:

1) He has short fingers.

2) He puts his face so far forward that the front of the stock hits him in the cheek.

3) Fluted chambers trash brass.

Not scope friendly? I have a scope on mine on a Pic rail made by B/T. No machining, and it locks-on to the same metal that holds the barrel trunion.

Doesn't like all ammo? I can't make mine fail to fire any particular ammo. It feeds, fires and ejects with boring regularity.

The iron sights suck? Do tell. Hogwash. Mine are indistinguishable from an AR in terms of function. Extremely subjective. I shoot mine with irons better than any other rifle I own.

Trigger is creepy? In other words, it about the same as most battle rifles out of the box. I had no trouble removing the trigger pack, disassembling it, and stoning the sear engagement surfaces to smooth it out.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:43:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The HK mag release is too far forward for me to hit with my index finger. The safety is a bit of a reach, and the knob right behind the stock likes to contact my eyeball under recoil.

Hk's are not a scope friendly platform. They don't take float rails as easily, and the iron sights, frankly, suck. AR's are more accurate anyway.

The triggers are heavy and creepy, and they can't be replaced with drop ins... they require smithing.

The collapsible stocks feel like absolute crap, and they offer no adjustment in length of pull. They are either in or out.

The fluted chamber of the HK trashes brass, and they don't like to run on all ammo. You have to hit it in the seet spot or you have a bolt gun.

Basically, the HK reached the peak of its development almost 50 years ago, and the AR is still going strong.

Go ahead and get the HK if you want to save a couple bucks on mags. YMMV.

I am sorry, but I can't take it anymore. I was going to let it go, but against my better judgement I must respond. The only true statements CombatJack has made above are:

1) He has short fingers.

2) He puts his face so far forward that the front of the stock hits him in the cheek.

3) Fluted chambers trash brass.

Not scope friendly? I have a scope on mine on a Pic rail made by B/T. No machining, and it locks-on to the same metal that holds the barrel trunion.

Doesn't like all ammo? I can't make mine fail to fire any particular ammo. It feeds, fires and ejects with boring regularity.

The iron sights suck? Do tell. Hogwash. Mine are indistinguishable from an AR in terms of function. Extremely subjective. I shoot mine with irons better than any other rifle I own.

Trigger is creepy? In other words, it about the same as most battle rifles out of the box. I had no trouble removing the trigger pack, disassembling it, and stoning the sear engagement surfaces to smooth it out.



D'oh!
Just got back to this but that's spot on.
Not to mention I had my trigger pac professionally smithed for $65 including shipping and i now have a buttery smooth trigger for nearly half the price of a plain old 2 stage AR trigger.

If you don't like the HK G3 platform that's fine but don't spread lies in defence of your preference.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:15:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The HK mag release is too far forward for me to hit with my index finger. The safety is a bit of a reach, and the knob right behind the stock likes to contact my eyeball under recoil.

Hk's are not a scope friendly platform. They don't take float rails as easily, and the iron sights, frankly, suck. AR's are more accurate anyway.

The triggers are heavy and creepy, and they can't be replaced with drop ins... they require smithing.

The collapsible stocks feel like absolute crap, and they offer no adjustment in length of pull. They are either in or out.

The fluted chamber of the HK trashes brass, and they don't like to run on all ammo. You have to hit it in the seet spot or you have a bolt gun.

Basically, the HK reached the peak of its development almost 50 years ago, and the AR is still going strong.

Go ahead and get the HK if you want to save a couple bucks on mags. YMMV.

I am sorry, but I can't take it anymore. I was going to let it go, but against my better judgement I must respond. The only true statements CombatJack has made above are:

1) He has short fingers.

2) He puts his face so far forward that the front of the stock hits him in the cheek.

3) Fluted chambers trash brass.

Not scope friendly? I have a scope on mine on a Pic rail made by B/T. No machining, and it locks-on to the same metal that holds the barrel trunion.

Doesn't like all ammo? I can't make mine fail to fire any particular ammo. It feeds, fires and ejects with boring regularity.

The iron sights suck? Do tell. Hogwash. Mine are indistinguishable from an AR in terms of function. Extremely subjective. I shoot mine with irons better than any other rifle I own.

Trigger is creepy? In other words, it about the same as most battle rifles out of the box. I had no trouble removing the trigger pack, disassembling it, and stoning the sear engagement surfaces to smooth it out.



D'oh!
Just got back to this but that's spot on.
Not to mention I had my trigger pac professionally smithed for $65 including shipping and i now have a buttery smooth trigger for nearly half the price of a plain old 2 stage AR trigger.

If you don't like the HK G3 platform that's fine but don't spread lies in defence of your preference.



+1

the is picky about ammo really killed me tho.... i mean hell i have a Cetme, yes a century one, but its 100% reliable,its been re worked also. Only ftf or fte i ever get is from cheap 1.97$ Hk mags when they are that cheap you get like 20 of them, and sometimes you forget to mark which ones have weak springs or bent lips
ive run assuie,port,santa barb, yugo/eruo(unknown make)south african surplus thru mine,, not one issue at all.
accuracy wise..well most mbr's are suited with surplus ammo 2-4 inchs from100-200m
i could easily getthat if i tried but i dont,,nor do i care to. i can hit ctm all day outto 500 with mine, and hell folks say Cetme sights suck compared to G3/HK90 series sights!
they do sell stock extension for the g3 stock sets if the pull isnt right..
well no sense to keep going on and on........ but come on..... picky on ammo....then complain about the flutes(the only thing that keeps thee from being jamomatics) all in the same post ,,,,
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:53:22 PM EDT
Nope. I have big hands, but I shoot squared up. Mine worked with one kind of surplus, jams incessantly with another. The rollers are hard to break if you've got a malf and need to clear the weapon--its a two handed 1 footed operation on mine. I much prefer the AR10. Its a superior weapon in nearly every way. And don't try to tell me that roller delayed blowback is cleaner than direct gas impingement.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:34:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Nope. I have big hands, but I shoot squared up. Mine worked with one kind of surplus, jams incessantly with another. The rollers are hard to break if you've got a malf and need to clear the weapon--its a two handed 1 footed operation on mine. I much prefer the AR10. Its a superior weapon in nearly every way. And don't try to tell me that roller delayed blowback is cleaner than direct gas impingement.



Let's just agree to disagree on that one....
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:11:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By akrev:
Thanks for the info CJ. Any particular recommendations on ACOG's? My optical experience is with scopes not the optical sights. I kind of like the idea of a triangle or chevron for fast aiming at close range.

Are the armalites able to have their triggers changed?



I have a TA11e on my 18" 308 AR. I love it.
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