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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/21/2012 12:41:00 PM EST
As stated, I cant find any info on the difference between the two. All Ive been able to find is on TNVC's site...(nice site, by the way...)

COMSPEC (Commercial Specification)
A term used to describe image tube quality, testing and inspection done by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM).

I can pretty much figure out that milspec meets .mil specs for performance, durability, ect...

So, is comspec considered a lower quality than milspec, or is it just a different way of testing? The difference I see is the price is a few bills less. Im just an average Joe, so I wont be running any covert uber-secret night ops or anything like that, but I do want the best NV images in my 2500-3000 range budget I can get. Possibly weapon-mount options. A neighbor came home from overseas with a .mil NV, and now I have to have one too!



Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:51:10 PM EST
Ok, this is a complicated question, but essentially, COMSPEC is anything that isn't MILSPEC.

So the question might be better phrased, "What is Milspec?"

Milspec can be used to define any monocular or otherwise any part that has been created for military use and that conforms the the various performance standards that were defined for that part.

However, it's not as simple as just the performance characteristics, since the Compsec models use the same parts as the Milspec ones right? And their performance is the same, as is their function.

So you might next ask; if Commspec monoculars sometimes use all Milspec parts, then why aren't those monoculars considered Milspec?

I did some research into exactly that question a few weeks back to work out the difference... Here's what I found. All of the specifications and tests it needs to have done during the manufacturing process, including the necessary standards of paperwork reflecting those standards... ( cut and pasted from another post I made... with slight changes. )



What makes a MILSPEC PVS-14...

Just to make clear, ANY DEVICE THAT MEETS THE BELOW REQUIREMENTS SHOULD BE A MILSPEC AN/PVS-14, as defined by Omni VIII.

MIL­PRF­A3256342(CR) - Lens Assembly, Objective for Monocular Night Vision Device, AN/PVS-14
MIL-PRF-A3256363(CR) - Image Intensifier Assembly, 18MM, Microchannel Wafer MX-11769/UV
MIL-PRF-49257 - Coated Optical Components (COC)
MIL-PRF-49324(CR) - Monocular Night Vision Device, AN/PVS-14
MIL-PRF-49427(CR) - Lens Assembly, Eyepiece for Aviator’s Night Vision Imaging System, AN/AVS-6(V)( )and Monocular Night Vision Device, AN/PVS-14
A3207330 - Wired Housing Assembly AN/PVS-14 MNVD
A3256337 - Wired Housing Assembly AN/PVS-14 MNVD
TM 11-5855-306-10 - Operator’s Manual, Monocular Night Vision Device (MNVD), AN/PVS-14
TM 11-5855-306-23&P - Unit and Direct Support Maintenance Manual Including Repair Parts and Special Tools List, Monocular Night Vision Device (MNVD), AN/PVS-14
ANSI/ASQC Q9001:2008Quality Management Systems – Requirements
ANSI/ASQ Z1.4-2008Sampling Procedures and Tables for Inspection by Attributes
ANSI/NCSL Z540.3-2006Requirements for the Calibration of Measuring and Test Equipment
AMSE Y14.5M-2009Dimensioning and Tolerancing
ANSI/ASQ Q10012-2003Measurement Management Systems – Requirements for Measurement Processes and Measuring Equipment
ASTM D 3951Standard Practice for Commercial Packaging

and
Omni VIII AN/PVS-14 Test Requirements ( MILSPEC AN/PVS-14 by definition )



Test

Requirement

Freq.

Sample

Inspections










Parts and materials

3.3.1, 3.3.2

M

100%

Finishes

3.3.6

M

100%

Workmanship *

3.3.7

M

100%

Marking *

3.3.8

M

100%

Head mount / helmet mount

3.4.1.2

M

100%













Group A










Electrical/Switch *

3.4.1.1

M

100%

Resolution – Far focus *

3.4.2.4.4.1

M

100%

Resolution – Close focus *

3.4.2.4.4.2

M

100%

Focus adjustment *

3.4.2.4.6

M

100%

Light emitting diode *

3.4.2.4.12

M

100%

LED indicator *

3.4.2.4.13

M

100%

Low voltage indicator *

3.4.2.4.14

M

100%

High light cut-off *

3.4.2.4.16

M

100%













Group B










Brightness gain *

3.4.2.4.11

M

Level I, 1.5%

Off-axis veiling glare *

3.4.2.4.5

Q

Level S-4, 1.5%













Group C






















Subgroup 1 (Tested in order listed)










Vibration

3.4.3.9

M

Level S-4, 1.5%

Temperature extremes

3.4.3.1

M

Level S-4, 1.5%

Immersion

3.4.3.4

M

Level S-4, 1.5%

Humidity

3.4.3.3

M

Level S-4, 1.5%













Subgroup 2










Temperature altitude

3.4.3.2

Q

Level S-4, 1.5%

Weapon shock

3.4.3.12

Q

Level S-4, 1.5%













Group D










Reliability

3.4.5

Q

Five systems

EMI

3.4.

A

Three systems

Audibility

3.4.2.4.9

A

Three systems



Now, any PVS-14 that meets ALL of the above specifications, is built according to the standards and has documentation and records of that process maintained according to the standard and is tested and passes the above tests as required, can be considered a Milspec part.

Mill just one, and you have a commspec part. Even if the part otherwise meets the Milspec.

So, the difference can be slim, or it can be huge. A commspec part can even exceed Milspec performance, but, as an example, if they don't record that the LED test indicator was working, or it's recorded on a non-conforming sheet, or the serial number wasn't recorded, then it's just Commspec even if it meets every other requirement.

And that is the difference between Comspec and Milspec.

Regards
David



Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:34:19 PM EST
Ugh... That was a very thorough explanation, and I understand exactly what you are telling me. Thank you so much, cj7hawk, you shed a LOT of light on my question. I can assume that this answer may apply to other .mil vs. comm items other than NV as well.
That being said, if I were to purchase a comspec NV through a reputable company like,say, TNVC, can I bet on getting a good product for the $$$? I mean, really, whats a few hundred more on a $3k investment? Should I just 'suck it up' and buy once, cry once? I was super-impressed with my neighbors .mil setup, will a comspec leave me wanting more? Or will it be the proverbial crap shoot?
Thanks again, my friend!


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 6:02:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By oderus1671:
Ugh... That was a very thorough explanation, and I understand exactly what you are telling me. Thank you so much, cj7hawk, you shed a LOT of light on my question. I can assume that this answer may apply to other .mil vs. comm items other than NV as well.
That being said, if I were to purchase a comspec NV through a reputable company like,say, TNVC, can I bet on getting a good product for the $$$? I mean, really, whats a few hundred more on a $3k investment? Should I just 'suck it up' and buy once, cry once? I was super-impressed with my neighbors .mil setup, will a comspec leave me wanting more? Or will it be the proverbial crap shoot?
Thanks again, my friend!



I wouldn't really describe anything from TNVC as a crap-shoot. TNVC have slowly built their reputation because they tend to take the crap out of the crap-shoot to begin with.

If you are expecting it to meet or exceed a certain Milspec, eg, Omni VIII ? Then yes, chance comes into it. You might get a few more blems than average also, but you're not going to get a lemon.

I'd say the best way to approach it is probably to give TNVC a call and chat to them. Let them know your fears and listen to what they say. That will probably help you make up your mind.

But that aside, just because something isn't Milspec, doesn't mean it's not close. I had a guesstimate of the TNV-PVS-14 and how close it is likely to come to Milspec and the answer is "pretty close" - So you can count on quality parts that come from the same sorts of places as do many of the Milspec components.

There is a significant cost in conformance to Milspec and this is where Commspec is cheaper. You might decide to go the entire way and even consider the Night Enforcer, but IIRC correctly, Vic's offering a 5 year Housing AND Tube warranty. That's a pretty good deal in my opinion.

The only question I'd have if selecting one of the new models is whether I want to pay the extra for Multicam... Sadly I already know the answer and my bank balance would have to cry a little more.

Regards
David
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:04:44 PM EST
Almost all my personal tubes are milspec. But, they are not always the best tubes. The best tubes I have ever used were all comspec tubes. Reason most of my tubes are milspec ? They were all bought before spec sheets were widely available with comspec tubes. Milspec was a guarantee as to what I was getting. With spec sheets on almost all tubes milspec means little to me anymore.

I still love my tubes and they all perform great. I passed on many milspec tubes to find the ones I like. We all have our pet peeves in tubes. CJ7hawk has his and I have mine. Many tubes he likes I don't. Milspec or Comspec is just a title. Your eyes and spec sheets tell the real story.
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