Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/20/2012 6:53:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 6:53:58 PM EST by sardo_67]
i have a 1050 now and after a few thousand round of cheap 55gr plinking ammo i am looking to do some real nice 77gr match type ammo. what can i expect on the 1050 or does it rely more on the dies i use?
i just have the Dillon 3 die set and a lee FCD, cases will also be trimmed to spec with my 1200B
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:39:01 PM EST
I wish I had a 1050, still have yet to buy a reloader though. Congrats
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 8:13:54 PM EST
I think it depends on how high quality you want your match to be....

My best match rounds have always came from a single stage. I have had hit or miss results on a progressive state such as the 1050. Give it a try, maybe it works for you. Obviously, if you want to mass produce decent match grade ammo, than the 1050 will probably be fine. However, I would add a much better seating die.

If you only want to make a couple hundred rounds of match at a time, than stick with the single stage process with weighed out charges.

But give it a try, maybe it will work to your liking.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 8:30:32 PM EST
Depending on powder figure charge variances from a tenth to a grain.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 8:31:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 9:01:19 PM EST by sardo_67]
it's me and a buddy, i have the 1050 and across the bench he has a 650. i am thinking of getting a good match seating die then loading them into the machine one at a time. weigh each charge by hand then use the press to seat, crimp then Lee FCD.... would that help the accuracy?

i am guessing the weak part of the progressive press and match ammo is the powder drop, it's only so accurate with the powder, correct?

i was just on Midway looking at the RCBS match dies, they have the "Gold Medal match" for $90 or so, they also have just the "competition seating die" for $65, what is the difference? they look similar and feed threw the window on the side that i like.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:48:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
it's me and a buddy, i have the 1050 and across the bench he has a 650. i am thinking of getting a good match seating die then loading them into the machine one at a time. weigh each charge by hand then use the press to seat, crimp then Lee FCD.... would that help the accuracy?
..


I don't know what a 1050 is like, but I have a little 550.
If you are going to use your Dillon as a single stage, I would worry about shell plate flex.
Particularly when you don't have cases pushing down on the shell plate on all sides of the ram.

I bought a single stage press for my accurate loading because the ram is coaxial so there is nothing to flex.
Personally, I like the Redding seating dies.

Also, if you want to trickle powder and you have a digital scale, do some experimentation to see if
scale drift is a problem. I had a nasty surprise and am shopping for a gemPro.



Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:48:33 AM EST
That's what I was thinking, it's a good machine but just too many moving parts for 100% precision ammo. I'm leaning towards getting the good RCBS seating die and maybe some better powder since I'm just using the WC844 now v
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:56:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
i have a 1050 now and after a few thousand round of cheap 55gr plinking ammo i am looking to do some real nice 77gr match type ammo. what can i expect on the 1050 or does it rely more on the dies i use?
i just have the Dillon 3 die set and a lee FCD, cases will also be trimmed to spec with my 1200B


You can load 1 MOA ammo without much trouble with the right powder and set up on a 1050. I would suggest using fully prepped brass and either TAC, CFE or 8208. I get better results using hand priming, chargemaster, and hand seating, but I can also still crank out 5-600 rounds of 1 MOA or better 75 grain on the 1050 without any real sweat.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 8:21:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By ronnl001:
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
i have a 1050 now and after a few thousand round of cheap 55gr plinking ammo i am looking to do some real nice 77gr match type ammo. what can i expect on the 1050 or does it rely more on the dies i use?
i just have the Dillon 3 die set and a lee FCD, cases will also be trimmed to spec with my 1200B


You can load 1 MOA ammo without much trouble with the right powder and set up on a 1050. I would suggest using fully prepped brass and either TAC, CFE or 8208. I get better results using hand priming, chargemaster, and hand seating, but I can also still crank out 5-600 rounds of 1 MOA or better 75 grain on the 1050 without any real sweat.


Oh nice. So you hand prep everything then just load each one into the machine by hand with the powder in it already?
Would you care to share your set up?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 8:59:17 AM EST
As others have said, it depends upon how careful you are during reloading to keep everything repeatable. I have a 650 and can crank out decent 68grn Hornady .223 ammo using TAC powder that my son's Savage uses to produce 5/8" groups. That's good enough for me but is it good enough for you?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 10:42:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By COSteve:
As others have said, it depends upon how careful you are during reloading to keep everything repeatable. I have a 650 and can crank out decent 68grn Hornady .223 ammo using TAC powder that my son's Savage uses to produce 5/8" groups. That's good enough for me but is it good enough for you?


Oh ya that's plenty for me. I'm just looking for some MOA capable ammo out of my 1050 but wasn't sure if I could expect that or what I would have to do in order to get it. I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas this year.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:52:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
Originally Posted By ronnl001:
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
i have a 1050 now and after a few thousand round of cheap 55gr plinking ammo i am looking to do some real nice 77gr match type ammo. what can i expect on the 1050 or does it rely more on the dies i use?
i just have the Dillon 3 die set and a lee FCD, cases will also be trimmed to spec with my 1200B


You can load 1 MOA ammo without much trouble with the right powder and set up on a 1050. I would suggest using fully prepped brass and either TAC, CFE or 8208. I get better results using hand priming, chargemaster, and hand seating, but I can also still crank out 5-600 rounds of 1 MOA or better 75 grain on the 1050 without any real sweat.


Oh nice. So you hand prep everything then just load each one into the machine by hand with the powder in it already?
Would you care to share your set up?


I just pour fully processed brass into the case feeder. A member here does it for 35/k. Well worth it. The benefit is that the mechanically tougher operations are eliminated and te brass is trimmed to uniform length. if I get 100% my own brass, I then just use an xdie to resize.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:53:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
Originally Posted By COSteve:
As others have said, it depends upon how careful you are during reloading to keep everything repeatable. I have a 650 and can crank out decent 68grn Hornady .223 ammo using TAC powder that my son's Savage uses to produce 5/8" groups. That's good enough for me but is it good enough for you?


Oh ya that's plenty for me. I'm just looking for some MOA capable ammo out of my 1050 but wasn't sure if I could expect that or what I would have to do in order to get it. I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas this year.


Your 1050 should definitely be capable of MOA ammo. I can crank out rounds that shoot under 1/2 MOA at 100 yards using a Rock Chucker, RCBS powder measure (not weighing each round), and FL dies. This is out of a 6mm bolt gun, Remington 700 out of the box.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 6:45:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 6:57:59 PM EST by cplewg]
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
i am guessing the weak part of the progressive press and match ammo is the powder drop, it's only so accurate with the powder, correct?


Don't know if it is the weakest part, but it can be improved by polishing the hopper and slide (there is an archived thread here on arfcom I think). Even with Varget I get +/- .1 gr after doing this.
Some folks also like the UniqueTek powder baffle and micrometer bar kit.
I don’t have any guns capable sub-MOA, and don’t know what is required for that kind of accuracy.
But the bulk 55 gr I crank out on the 1050, with plain old Dillon dies and stock (but polished) powder hopper shoots about 1.5 MOA consistently out to 200 yards, which is the furthest I typically shoot. That’s with a DD 14.5 barrel.
If you want to read some interesting first hand experience on match grade ammo from a 1050 read this:
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/reload_multistage_press.html

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 7:30:28 PM EST
Go with a Forster seating die instead of the RCBS Comp seating die, the Forster die will give you much lower run-out than the RCBS dies.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 9:00:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By EWP:
Go with a Forster seating die instead of the RCBS Comp seating die, the Forster die will give you much lower run-out than the RCBS dies.


does that have the top feeding window? also what is the "run-out" sorry new guy here so i'm still trying to learn all the terms.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 9:09:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
Originally Posted By EWP:
Go with a Forster seating die instead of the RCBS Comp seating die, the Forster die will give you much lower run-out than the RCBS dies.


does that have the top feeding window? also what is the "run-out" sorry new guy here so i'm still trying to learn all the terms.


No bullet feeding window but it does have a bullet/case alignment sleeve that keep the bullet straight during the entire seating process which is more useful than a bullet window.

Run-out is the coaxial alignment of the bullet in the cartridge case, the less run-out the straighter it will shoot because the bullet is better aligned when it enters the rifling.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:17:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 3:29:17 AM EST by 30Caliber]
I know several people who've won state and national championships in Highpower with ammo made simply by pulling on the blue handle.


Very few handloaders have a good grasp of how much or how little difference the extra efforts make on a target. So they default to "everything is important". Weighing charges, being picky about case weights, runnout etc. is all in that category. For up close (300yds and less), it's essentially insignificant.

It's not ideal for benchrest; it'll do just fine everywhere else.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:37:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By cplewg:

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/reload_multistage_press.html

Hope this helps.

Good link cplewg!

It seems they concentrate on sizing/decapping, priming, charging, seating and crimping bullets in one pass through the press. The sizing process is giving them problems with their powder variation of up to .6 grain! It seems they would have more consistent results using the method that myself and most of the other handloaders here use - one pass for processing, another pass for reloading. Maybe I'm wrong? That's how the flow of their posts went in my lack of sleep state.

By the way, I noticed another link to what I believe is their original discussion.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/rec.guns/HNj4QDiv84k



Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:06:20 AM EST
I reload all my match 223 ammo on my 1050. With 69 or 77s, it is all sub MOA out to 600 yards.

I use a Dillon carbide size die, Redding competition seat die and a Redding body die.

I did some tweaking to my powder measure to get it to throw more consistent with Varget and other stick powders. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=154783
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:19:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Henny:
It seems they concentrate on sizing/decapping, priming, charging, seating and crimping bullets in one pass through the press. The sizing process is giving them problems with their powder variation of up to .6 grain! It seems they would have more consistent results using the method that myself and most of the other handloaders here use - one pass for processing, another pass for reloading.


I suspect they also did not have the hopper polished as that seems like a huge variance. Then again it was 1992 and I couldn’t guess about the powder measure accuracy back then.

Keep in mind that they were neck sizing only. I guess you could get away with a single pass in that case. With full length resizing you really need to trim the case afterward which pretty much dictates two passes.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 6:43:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By cplewg:
Originally Posted By Henny:
It seems they concentrate on sizing/decapping, priming, charging, seating and crimping bullets in one pass through the press. The sizing process is giving them problems with their powder variation of up to .6 grain! It seems they would have more consistent results using the method that myself and most of the other handloaders here use - one pass for processing, another pass for reloading.


I suspect they also did not have the hopper polished as that seems like a huge variance. Then again it was 1992 and I couldn’t guess about the powder measure accuracy back then.

Keep in mind that they were neck sizing only. I guess you could get away with a single pass in that case. With full length resizing you really need to trim the case afterward which pretty much dictates two passes.

1992?!? Powder measure technology has made great leaps and bounds since then
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:20:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By 30Caliber:

Originally Posted By cplewg:
Originally Posted By Henny:
It seems they concentrate on sizing/decapping, priming, charging, seating and crimping bullets in one pass through the press. The sizing process is giving them problems with their powder variation of up to .6 grain! It seems they would have more consistent results using the method that myself and most of the other handloaders here use - one pass for processing, another pass for reloading.


I suspect they also did not have the hopper polished as that seems like a huge variance. Then again it was 1992 and I couldn’t guess about the powder measure accuracy back then.

Keep in mind that they were neck sizing only. I guess you could get away with a single pass in that case. With full length resizing you really need to trim the case afterward which pretty much dictates two passes.

1992?!? Powder measure technology has made great leaps and bounds since then

Other than the safety mechanism, some different materials for the powder bar and the hopper not being epoxied on, my Dillon powder measures are pretty much the same since the mid to late 80s to earlier this year. For some reason or another 1992 just doesn't seem like it was "way back" then! I'm not really that old am I?
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:27:12 AM EST
For some reason or another 1992 just doesn't seem like it was "way back" then! I'm not really that old am I?


your not old until you retire
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 10:01:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Henny:

Originally Posted By 30Caliber:

Originally Posted By cplewg:
Originally Posted By Henny:
It seems they concentrate on sizing/decapping, priming, charging, seating and crimping bullets in one pass through the press. The sizing process is giving them problems with their powder variation of up to .6 grain! It seems they would have more consistent results using the method that myself and most of the other handloaders here use - one pass for processing, another pass for reloading.


I suspect they also did not have the hopper polished as that seems like a huge variance. Then again it was 1992 and I couldn’t guess about the powder measure accuracy back then.

Keep in mind that they were neck sizing only. I guess you could get away with a single pass in that case. With full length resizing you really need to trim the case afterward which pretty much dictates two passes.

1992?!? Powder measure technology has made great leaps and bounds since then

Other than the safety mechanism, some different materials for the powder bar and the hopper not being epoxied on, my Dillon powder measures are pretty much the same since the mid to late 80s to earlier this year. For some reason or another 1992 just doesn't seem like it was "way back" then! I'm not really that old am I?


Their powder measure had over 400,000 cycles on it too.

I have a knock off of the RCBS Comp seating die. It has the window and a slider bushing in it. My 1050s also run on auto drives your not going to get more consistent cycling than that. That along with some of the tweaks I have done to the machine to tighten it up. I feel it can produce 1MOA ammo all day long. I don't how ever shoot paper at 100 yards so this is based on the pattern of hits on steel targets at 200 meters.

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 12:18:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By 30Caliber:

Originally Posted By cplewg:
Originally Posted By Henny:
It seems they concentrate on sizing/decapping, priming, charging, seating and crimping bullets in one pass through the press. The sizing process is giving them problems with their powder variation of up to .6 grain! It seems they would have more consistent results using the method that myself and most of the other handloaders here use - one pass for processing, another pass for reloading.


I suspect they also did not have the hopper polished as that seems like a huge variance. Then again it was 1992 and I couldn’t guess about the powder measure accuracy back then.

Keep in mind that they were neck sizing only. I guess you could get away with a single pass in that case. With full length resizing you really need to trim the case afterward which pretty much dictates two passes.

1992?!? Powder measure technology has made great leaps and bounds since then


yeah, yeah, point taken.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 12:47:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By angus6:
For some reason or another 1992 just doesn't seem like it was "way back" then! I'm not really that old am I?


your not old until you retire

Ummmmm, I did retire.


Link Posted: 11/22/2012 2:04:50 PM EST
The old saying Tis A Poor Carpenter Who Blames his tools..........

No matter the press used, it is the person runing the press that ensures the quality of the ammo produced! There is nothing more that can be said.
Minimize the variables.

I would not use a comp seater as a standard seater will work just fine.

You find a load that works. Meaning get a powder that measure well in a DPM, and with a 77gr in 223 I would look at TAC! I would have good case prep habits, and then work from there. Using the 650 for Case Prep of sizing and Trimming. Your loade testing will tell you things like can I not do addtional prep work like chamber and deburring of the case mouth? Or using say a Lyman M Die to break the case mouth of sharp edges post Dillon Trimmer action? Using the 1050 to (swage primer pockets) prime,charge, seat, and crimp bullets...Dump the Lee FCD and use the Dillon Crimp die..
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 4:53:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By rn22723:
The old saying Tis A Poor Carpenter Who Blames his tools..........

No matter the press used, it is the person runing the press that ensures the quality of the ammo produced! There is nothing more that can be said.
Minimize the variables.

I would not use a comp seater as a standard seater will work just fine.

You find a load that works. Meaning get a powder that measure well in a DPM, and with a 77gr in 223 I would look at TAC! I would have good case prep habits, and then work from there. Using the 650 for Case Prep of sizing and Trimming. Your loade testing will tell you things like can I not do addtional prep work like chamber and deburring of the case mouth? Or using say a Lyman M Die to break the case mouth of sharp edges post Dillon Trimmer action? Using the 1050 to (swage primer pockets) prime,charge, seat, and crimp bullets...Dump the Lee FCD and use the Dillon Crimp die..

I like a competition seater simply because it has the micrometer. Making adjustments and switching bullets is just a matter to dialing it to the desired number. That said, for the dozen+ sets of dies I have, I only have one competition seating die (for my match mule rifle).
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 7:05:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By 30Caliber:
I know several people who've won state and national championships in Highpower with ammo made simply by pulling on the blue handle.


Very few handloaders have a good grasp of how much or how little difference the extra efforts make on a target. So they default to "everything is important". Weighing charges, being picky about case weights, runnout etc. is all in that category. For up close (300yds and less), it's essentially insignificant.

It's not ideal for benchrest; it'll do just fine everywhere else.


I live 45 minutes from a Highpower range. I'm the guy some can't get away from for all the questions being asked. Yes, you're right about the blue handle and we agree on insignificant changes inside 300 yard mark. If you want to load moa ammunition for distances inside 300 yards just about anything with a handle works.

But, let's not pretend for a second folks competing at national level are "just pulling a blue handle." There's been quite a few modifications performed to the "black handle" that's attached to the blue press. I've seen Prometheus measures over a number of blue 550 presses belonging to national competitors. There's an aftermarket company employing a few folks machining/selling parts that correct Dillon inadequacies. Hardly a "blue handle press" when done.

How you run your set-up is your deal. You set the bar, but let's not suggest the bar is set the same for everyone because it's just not so.

Link Posted: 11/23/2012 12:57:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Originally Posted By 30Caliber:
I know several people who've won state and national championships in Highpower with ammo made simply by pulling on the blue handle.


Very few handloaders have a good grasp of how much or how little difference the extra efforts make on a target. So they default to "everything is important". Weighing charges, being picky about case weights, runnout etc. is all in that category. For up close (300yds and less), it's essentially insignificant.

It's not ideal for benchrest; it'll do just fine everywhere else.


I live 45 minutes from a Highpower range. I'm the guy some can't get away from for all the questions being asked. Yes, you're right about the blue handle and we agree on insignificant changes inside 300 yard mark. If you want to load moa ammunition for distances inside 300 yards just about anything with a handle works.

But, let's not pretend for a second folks competing at national level are "just pulling a blue handle." There's been quite a few modifications performed to the "black handle" that's attached to the blue press. I've seen Prometheus measures over a number of blue 550 presses belonging to national competitors. There's an aftermarket company employing a few folks machining/selling parts that correct Dillon inadequacies. Hardly a "blue handle press" when done.

How you run your set-up is your deal. You set the bar, but let's not suggest the bar is set the same for everyone because it's just not so.



I agree with this 100%

Top Top