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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/17/2002 12:00:58 AM EDT
went to a show yesterday (hayward WI) here goes;

kimmel ap 9 $695 for a $300 gun!
pre ban ar w/palmetto lower not a part matched
and they wanted $1995 for it!
colt 20 rds new $45 used $40, i bought one for $20 at another table.
colt complete m4 ...over 2k!
pre ban AK w/underfolder $795
real nice french mas (?) $289

class 3 dealer, hell yeah
FA sp mp5 $11k
browning bar, m16, uzi, hk 93 (i don't know hk stuff, not sure)
mg 42
a couple thompsons

my girlfriend asked why i was acting so weird after we were at that table.

Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:04:25 AM EDT
jesus!! thats how they usually are though.. Most people have no idea what guns are worth so these guys make a killing.. I dont even know why these class 3 guys show up at gun shows, they are all snooty assholes who act like they are too cool to talk to you because they have machine guns, Ive only ever seen a few good deals at gun shows, but I still go to them anyway.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 5:23:32 AM EDT
some folks don't know what a gun show is all about, of course the prices are high ! but the whole purpose is to make an offer of what you belive an item is worth, then go from there, no one ever pays asking price..., learn to "horse trade".........
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 6:48:48 AM EDT
Hey Cactus, you can barter at gun shows!? I figured that since you are filing out a NICS check, it was like any other retail purchase; i.e. no wiggle room on prices. I have never seen anyone do that before, maybe you just do that in AZ.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 6:59:21 AM EDT
Ok just out of curiousity.............

What does a "basic" MG-42 go for, I mean no tripod, just the bipod, 1 barrel, maybe some ammo belts???

What was the dealer charging, and what is a good price?
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 7:00:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 7:08:50 AM EDT
Saw a nice 1928 Tommy at the last Mesa show..$12,000.00, with one "L" drum, and at least six 20's, and six 30's..

Overpriced? One of those "Phoenix Arms" .22's for 350.00 (What the market will bear, I guess..)

Meplat-
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 8:07:02 AM EDT
The cheapest I have seen a transferable MG42 was for $18000, figure $20000 to $250000 for an average though. Still way too much for me though.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 8:30:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Liquid_Snake:
Hey Cactus, you can barter at gun shows!? I figured that since you are filing out a NICS check, it was like any other retail purchase; i.e. no wiggle room on prices. I have never seen anyone do that before, maybe you just do that in AZ.



Hey, in retail, you should always ask for a deal if you think a price is too high. I always haggle (a little in a local gun shop, a lot at a show). I walked into a computer store the other day, and the salesperson immediately cut %30-40 percent off the inflated prices for components for a new computer because he saw I knew the market value. If you're ballsy, you can even get a little break in retail chain stores. The other day, I got the sales guy in Circuit City to throw in a $20 AC adapter with a MIDI keyboard.

On the other hand, don't try to squeeze your local dealer gun dealer too hard. He may get sick of you and give you his best possible price, but he won't make much on the deal and will remember you being a prick. It's a delicate balance between not getting gouged on a price and driving your local dealer out of business!
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:08:24 AM EDT
I happened to go to a gunshow yesterday and this one guy had forged lower blanks for $95. Damn near pissed myself laughing.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 11:24:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Liquid_Snake:
I figured that since you are filing out a NICS check, it was like any other retail purchase; i.e. no wiggle room on prices.



Capitalistic Rules of the Market

Rule #1;

All prices are negotiable. Some more than others.

Rule #2;

No one has to sell anything to you, unless it is a regulated business.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 11:25:11 AM EDT
I saw a box of LC Q3131 for $12.00 one time.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 11:27:50 AM EDT
Here is the best one:

I saw a so called Pre Ban Tec9 for.... Get this

$1,100

That dealer should have been shot !
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 2:25:50 PM EDT
i agree with haggling the price, etc but they should at least start with a REASONABLE price, not twice it's value ala the $695 kimmel ap-9 and pre ban ar. i wouldn't pay $1995 for a pre ban if everything matched perfectly! if the prices are so rediculous i won't even waste my time to get them down to a normal price. the preban ak was the only decently priced thing there. did i mention $300 for a yugo m48a?
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 2:36:49 PM EDT
L_S,

i barter, bargain, fanagle, horse trade, & even "screw'm" at gun shows, when i see a gun i lyke or intend to buy the first question i ask is, "paperwork ?" if the answer is "no" then i get real interested, if the answer is "yes", i go into my, "this is a peice of shyt & you are trying to unload that crap on me ?", attitude, i have been known to get dealers to lower their price by several hundred dollars on a high end item when i let them know i ain't no friggen rookie that fell off the turnip truck last night, if you are paying asking price..., i have a private gun show just for you..., so bring a lot of cash
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:23:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Here is the best one:

I saw a so called Pre Ban Tec9 for.... Get this

$1,100

That dealer should have been shot !



Are you sure it wasn't a transferable full auto? There's a few registered full auto Tec9's out there and that would be a decent price for one.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:37:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By inferno715:
went to a show yesterday (hayward WI) here goes;

kimmel ap 9 $695 for a $300 gun!
pre ban ar w/palmetto lower not a part matched
and they wanted $1995 for it!
colt 20 rds new $45 used $40, i bought one for $20 at another table.
colt complete m4 ...over 2k!
pre ban AK w/underfolder $795
real nice french mas (?) $289



I have absolutely no problem with capitolism. If you don't like or know the prices then don't buy them. Yes some people sell stuff for high dollar but that's how they feed there families. After all, if you could make more money at your job wouldn't you accept it?

And Gunshows=Horse Trading.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:54:08 PM EDT
A price is determined by what some one is willing to pay for something.

You need to go to the gun show informed and ready to buy.

I will not buy stuff that I am not familiar with the "market" price range.

I take a "preban" AR15 ID list and a price guide.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 6:40:22 PM EDT
All ways a good idea to know prices before you go to a show......

Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:08:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Liquid_Snake:
Hey Cactus, you can barter at gun shows!? I figured that since you are filing out a NICS check, it was like any other retail purchase; i.e. no wiggle room on prices. I have never seen anyone do that before, maybe you just do that in AZ.



No way. The last thing I ask a dealer is "What's your bottom price?" Only rookies pay the marked prices at gunshows, with a few exceptions of course.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:23:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2002 10:28:08 PM EDT by ybh_613]
Went to a show Sunday ( 7-16 ) and bought 2 OKay
mags and 2 Parsons mags, all are 30 rd mags in good shape ( need to be refinished ) Paid 15.00 each. Is this a great deal or not?????
^ v
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 5:25:14 AM EDT
ybh-613,

it's a good deal as long as they work, are in good condition & have green followers in them, if they have a good finish on them, thats just a plus, has nothyng to do wyth function !!


BobCole,

""The last thing I ask a dealer is "What's your bottom price?"""

after his reply, i say "com'on...!! you can do better than that !!!
& make a last ditch offer whyle fondling a handfull of 100 dollar bills........

Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:17:54 AM EDT
Well, I'm not exactly a gun show rookie, I've just never seen that done before in the dozen or so I have been to. Either way, I know the prices of various guns pretty well, and almost never buy a gun at gun shows just for that reason- I know the prices are outrageous.

I work in retail myself, and have for years. Everyone I have worked for and have heard about has not been able to even ake $.01 of of the price of ANYTHING.
However, this is when you work for a corporation/large company that tracks absolutely everything. I guess it just never occured to me that small business owners operate differently.

There is definately a fine line between a serious customer, and someone looking to get something for nothing. I think I know when to cross it and when not to.
But how much is TOO much of a markup for a gun. Is there and exact figure? My best guess would be a 32% markup is fair, and after that they are just gouging...
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:32:07 AM EDT
We should call up Delta Press and see if they'll drop the price of their "armor piercing" SS109 ammo. They're listing it at $19.95/10 rounds!
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:45:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2002 7:46:54 AM EDT by ilikelegs]

Originally Posted By shaggy:

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Here is the best one:

I saw a so called Pre Ban Tec9 for.... Get this

$1,100

That dealer should have been shot !



Are you sure it wasn't a transferable full auto? There's a few registered full auto Tec9's out there and that would be a decent price for one.



Nope, it was not a full auto. I talked to the dealer
and called him on the price.
He just looked at me and said " You may know about it but most do not, and someone will buy it".

This guy was a real asshole.

This was at the Huge Wynhimers (sp) gun show in
Tulsa this April.

Link Posted: 6/18/2002 10:40:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:

Originally Posted By shaggy:

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Here is the best one:

I saw a so called Pre Ban Tec9 for.... Get this

$1,100

That dealer should have been shot !



Are you sure it wasn't a transferable full auto? There's a few registered full auto Tec9's out there and that would be a decent price for one.



Nope, it was not a full auto. I talked to the dealer
and called him on the price.
He just looked at me and said " You may know about it but most do not, and someone will buy it".

This guy was a real asshole.



At least he was an honest enough asshole to admit that he knew how much it was worth.

Most of the dealers I know who try this stuff will keep trying to BS you. "Well, this is the extra-rare Delta Force issue. Only 200 made."

If he does manage to sell it to some moron, more power to him. Somebody just got an expensive lesson.

On the other hand, I have seen the same way overpriced guns on the same tables show after show, year after year, because the seller just sneers at reasonable offers.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 10:59:34 AM EDT
I always get a laugh going to the shows. I have gotten some pretty good deals at some of them. Nobody gets screwed unless they let themselves get screwed. If I'm looking for something in particular, it pays to shop on the net first to see what the item usually goes for. Some items that are in great demand and in short supply will cost more, and will leave little room for negotiation. It pays to haggle, I am always surprised at the sight of the unknowing that buy some of the overpriced items without questioning the price. The dealers are there to make money. Know what you are buying and what it is worth, you can always walk away from a bad deal.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 12:48:13 PM EDT
L_S,

""I work in retail myself, and have for years. Everyone I have worked for and have heard about has not been able to even ake $.01 of of the price of ANYTHING.
However, this is when you work for a corporation/large company that tracks absolutely everything. I guess it just never occured to me that small business owners operate differently.""

ARE YOU SERIOUS ???????

Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:26:14 PM EDT
Hey Inferno, where in WI are you? I'm about 40 minutes north of Hayward (Superior). Thought about going to the show but had too much to do.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:38:17 PM EDT
Many "dealers" at gun shows are there to find the guy who needs money and is selling a gun,... cheap!!!

Ever walk around a show with a gun? (Either one you are trying to sell or one you just bought?) Freakin' dealers are worse than vultures!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 4:08:35 PM EDT
excerpts from the fun show dealers rule book..or AKA Ferengi "Rules of Acquisition"

87. Learn the customer's weaknesses so you can better take advantage of him.

103. Fill a desparate need with your most expensive product, then mark it up 500%.

141. Only fools pay retail.

181. Not even dishonesty can tarnish the shine of profit.

218. Always know what you're buying.

266. When in doubt, lie.

299. Whenever you exploit someone, it never hurts to thanks them. (That way, it's easier to exploit them the next time.)



Link Posted: 6/18/2002 4:59:36 PM EDT
wiskeybravo- i live in superior too. i've traded emails with one other guy on here about a year ago that is also from superior..forgot the name though. i go to the range on hwy Z all the time. going tomorrow (wed 18th) before work. will have my AR and ruger p89 with.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 5:36:36 PM EDT
Cool. I go to that range, mostly only around deer season though. I have yet to go there with my AR. Just bought it thru Shooters Supply about 3 1/2 months ago. Most of the time I drive out past Oliver and shoot cause that's where I grew up and I know the trails. Nice to meet ya.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:15:31 PM EDT
Hey ilikelegs!

Remember this guy at the Tulsa show? The one with $75 M7 bayonets? Click on "Pre-Ban Rifles" and start going through the listings.

www.prebanarms.com

I'm sure you'll remember him after the "sticker-shock" subsides a bit. He's at most of the bigger shows here in Tulsa. I don't even bother going by his tables any more.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:55:03 PM EDT
Around here the gun shows are cheap and the local guns shops are a rip off. If the gun show was closer/everyweekend I think the local guns shops would go out of business.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 7:17:36 PM EDT
While I do notice occasional rip-offs, it is the screaming deals that I just don't have the cash for that I remember.

One I particularily remember - a pre-ban AR-15 M4gery (believe it was a Bushmaster - and I think it was preban, but only because it had the lug/flashhider/collapsing stock) for $700 (even if it wasn't pre-ban, still a good price.. need to get a new upper though!).

At another, two Wilson CQBs, looking in near new condition, $800 apiece. Gah! At the time I saw those, I had less than $200 in my name. I would have sold a kidney if I could find a sharp knife.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 11:57:43 PM EDT
whiskey- what kind of AR did you get? i see some at the range once in a while. i built mine up from a lower into m4 style and have another complete lower that i havn't done anything with yet..too many projects to work on right now. email me if you want to go shoot. i'll go shoot in the woods if you don't like the range. there's going to be a good show at the DECC next week too, i'll be there.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 6:36:52 AM EDT
Originally posted by Liquid_Snake:


"I work in retail myself, and have for years. Everyone I have worked for and have heard about has not been able to even ake $.01 of of the price of ANYTHING.
However, this is when you work for a corporation/large company that tracks absolutely everything. I guess it just never occured to me that small business owners operate differently."



Cactus_Jack Responds:

ARE YOU SERIOUS ???????



Let me explain my logic for why I assumed that I could not haggle with small business gun dealers. I figured that since they can not order in substantial quantity as to get a bulk discount, that they had to mark up their wares accodingly to compensate. Plus, gun dealers have to pay special taxes for their FFL's and for each gun order, along with many other fees associated with such a tightly controlled business. I figured their markup really was the minimum price they can afford to charge.
I always knew that they price gouged on accessories and ammo.
Perhaps I assumed that gun dealers were not like the rest of the retail world that feeds off a mix of both the rich and the ignorant...

Anyway, I have been fortunate enough to have never made a gun purchase that I thought was outrageous. Last time I went to the show I saw some nice examples of what I now realize are gouging:

200 rounds SS109 for $70
Carbon 15 pistol for $1,150
One of those junk 22lr/22mag EAA pistols or $220

Ouch
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 7:51:26 AM EDT
ffl holders dont have to worry about "discount",... they get rifles for way less than you can. A std RRA 20" A2 is 650, their price.... FOR ONLY ONE, or 100...

mugzilla

Link Posted: 6/19/2002 8:51:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 11:05:42 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Posted by ken_mays...

On the other hand, I have seen the same way overpriced guns on the same tables show after show, year after year


I think we have all seen this at gun shows. How the hell do those dealers stay in business???

They must have thousands of dollars invested in the weapons that sit on their tables. How are they able to just sit on their inventory indefinitely, and let it collect dust?
God knows, it costs money to schlep their guns from gun show to gun show.

Seriously... How are dealers able to afford this attitude???

Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:33:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:Posted by ken_mays...

On the other hand, I have seen the same way overpriced guns on the same tables show after show, year after year


I think we have all seen this at gun shows. How the hell do those dealers stay in business???



To be fair, most of the guys who have these outrageously overpriced guns are not true dealers, they're just some ill-informed, greedy, lazy collector who knows everything and won't let you forget it. These are invariably the same fellows who offer you $300 for an AR-15 of any stripe and shake their heads in disgust when you decline.

Most of the actual FFL holders at most of the gun shows I attend have a pretty good idea of how much guns really do trade hands for.

But occasionally there are the dealers who show up one day with a big table full of guns marked $100 to $200 above everybody else. The ink is barely dry on their FFL and they won't even consider a reasonable offer. They usually last for about five or six shows, then disappear after selling nothing.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 4:17:01 PM EDT
Inferno, been trying to email yah but it's not working. I bought Bushy's M4 with Mini-Y comp. Pics @ communities.msn.com/unatco What kind of lower did you use to build yours? Where do you get your ammo? I go thru Shooters and L&M Supply in Cloquet. L&M has the lowest prices I've found for American Eagle. Didn't know there was a show at the DECC this weekend but will definitely be going & looking for some deals. Lately I've been buying USGI mags, spare parts & gunsmithing tools. I'll try the email thing from work. Later.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 7:51:39 AM EDT
The largest markup I have seen was at a gunshop north of Princeton, MN. They had two pre-ban AR-15's. One was an Eagle Arms, 16" upper, collapsable stock, OK finish, $2500.

The other was a Colt. I don't know which model, but it had a 20" upper, flash supresser, no bayo lug, A2 stock, also $2500.

I wonder how long they have had them hanging on the wall?

Brad
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 11:37:44 AM EDT
i get my ammo from shooters supply (black hills 50rd boxes for around $12-13) 9mm i buy at walmart $11 for 100 rds. the show at the decc is next week (the 24th?)..a guy i work with is gonna have a table there.

inferno_715@hotmail.com
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 11:52:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Here is the best one:

I saw a so called Pre Ban Tec9 for.... Get this

$1,100

That dealer should have been shot !



At the Richardson Gun Show earlier this year, I saw a used post-ban Colt Match Target, selling for $2000, marked as "pre-ban"!!! I have seen a new one for around $700 at the local gun shows, and they were properly marked as "post-ban".
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 12:22:19 PM EDT
I have a trick that works for me (mostly)
I Divide my cash and put some in every pocket. Then cry poor when negotiating.
$150? (left hip pocket) Sorry, I only have $100
$25? (watch pocket) Sorry, I only have $17.80
$50? (shirt pocket)Sorry, I only have $42

But DONT FORGET WHICH POCKET HAS WHAT!

I told a guy one time "sorry I only have $50"
and the proceded to pull out $200 (bad move)
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