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Posted: 8/2/2002 5:02:09 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm not sure what the going price is but, if you plan to build it in a pre-ban configuration, you better be able to prove it was assembled into a complete rifle prior to the ban or else you will have to build it in a post ban configuration.
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Posted: 8/2/2002 5:07:39 PM EDT
[#2]
 bla bla bla bla bla bla blee blee bla...blaexpect to pay $1200 or better. |
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Posted: 8/2/2002 5:23:37 PM EDT
[#3]
If it's in 90% or better condition, it will likely be around $800-$900. Personally I wouldn't pay over $900 for a Bushy or Colt documented preban lower unless I had a lot of money to spare. Look around in the Equipment Exchange, you might find what you are looking for... Equipment Exchange
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Posted: 8/4/2002 3:41:47 PM EDT
[#4]
FYI
Unless they have changed their minds again, the BATF is of the opinion that transferring a pre-ban without it's evil features makes it a post-ban. In other words, if you buy/sell a stripped pre-ban lower it becomes a post-ban in the eyes of the gummint. It must be sold with a tele-stock to stay within the governments definition of a 'semiautomaticassaultweapon'. Pistol grip + detachable mag + tele-stock = AW. Forewarned is forearmed. [edited because I don't know how to use the board codes] |
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Posted: 8/6/2002 5:24:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Actually, it must be sold/transferred as a *complete weapon in "assault weapon" configuration*, or BATF's opinion is that it no longer qualifies for the pre-ban exemption to the ban.
-Troy |
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Posted: 8/6/2002 6:30:56 PM EDT
[#6]
What I've heard on this is all second hand. Does anyone have a link to/copy of the BATF letter?
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Posted: 8/6/2002 8:07:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Buy the complete AR15 from the present owner.
Sell him back the parts you don't want. Install your new parts when you recieve the lower. |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 3:23:40 AM EDT
[#8]
That is the dumbest goddamned thing I have ever heard. Not your post, Troy, but the BATF "opinion". They're the ones who dictate that the serial numbered part **IS** the weapon in the first place, then try to say that you can "un-pre-ban" it by taking a part off and selling it? How about selling a pre flat top without the carry handle - not complete? Thank you, BATF, for being one of the biggest reasons I love my country, but fear my government. Now you fellows get back to the airport and keep those 2" long plastic GI Joe guns off of our nation's airliners.... |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 7:51:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Preban BM lowers are worth $1200, stripped. Add more for more parts, but the serial number is worth that.
Post one on the EE for that price, and it will sell. |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 8:07:04 AM EDT
[#10]
So if I take the upper off my preban Bushmaster lower, for cleaning, then it is no longer considered preban by the ATF? (halfway kidding here, this is getting crazy)
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Posted: 8/7/2002 2:38:19 PM EDT
[#11]
No, BATF's opinion allows for disassembly for cleaning and maintenence. However, their opinion is that if you assemble the gun into a non-AW configuration (such as installing a "post-ban"-featured upper on a fixed-stock lower), then the gun no longer qualifies for the grandfathering exemption (of course, are YOU going to tell them you did this?). But they also say that if you TRANSFER the gun without it being in AW configuration, it also loses its grandfather clause. Part of the definition of "assault weapon" requires a *complete* gun, not just a "receiver or frame," BTW. Now, this hasn't been tested in court. But, given the text of the law, and BATF's previous cases, there is a *good* possibility that it would be upheld. Is is BS? Absolutely. Is it a guarenteed winner for BATF? No way. But it's close enough that it wouldn't surprise me if it was upheld. Hopefully, we'll never have to find out. -Troy |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 2:43:53 PM EDT
[#12]
You're confusing the legal definitions of "firearm", which is defined as the "serial-numbered receiver or frame", and the definition of assault weapon, which is, for a rifle, "a semi-automatic rifle with the following features:...". A frame or receiver is NOT a semi-automatic rifle. BATF has successfully argued in court that an assault weapon has to be a weapon capable of semi-automatic fire. An AR15 lower is NOT capable of semi-automatic fire. To answer your other question, a flattop AR without a detachable carry handle IS capable of semi-automatic fire, so that isn't an issue. -Troy |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 3:56:39 PM EDT
[#13]
I think if someone wants to argue this one they can by comparing it with NFA laws.
Buy an M16 lower, take all the parts and sear out and replace with semi-auto parts and leave the sear out. It is still a machine gun. Like the ATF says "once a machine always a machine gun." I don't see how you can have it both ways. |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 4:13:12 PM EDT
[#14]
WTF!!!
You know this is the kinda shit that just makes me want to strangle someone!And proves the BATF is the most useless,unlawfull organinization full of assholes in this country. So now instead of dealing with written law,we are subject to "opinion"! Once a "pre-ban",change some parts,and it magically(according to some assclown's opinion)changes itself into a "postban"? FUCK THEM! Sorry bout the foul mouth,but whats with all this jerking people around,you couldn't follow the law no matter how hard you try to stay outta jail with these jaggoffs enforcing their opinions. |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 5:36:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Simple. There are different sections of the US Code for machine guns and "assault weapons," and those sections are worded differently and enact very different rules. It isn't like the the same text of the law is being applied to both types of firearms. When dealing with laws, you simply can't decide a law "should" do something. You have to read it and understand how it will be interpreted. A simple comma or conjunction can change the entire meaning of a law and how it's applied. That's why lawyers have jobs; they specialize in reading the text word for word and figuring out ways to apply it. Of course, the final word comes from the courts. -Troy |
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Posted: 8/7/2002 5:45:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Remember: BATF is tasked with applying federal laws regarding guns (and tobacco and alcohol) to real-world situations, via regulations. Those regulations stand unless overturned in court. And the court usually gives BATF the benefit of the doubt, though not always. The problem is, to have any standing to take BATF to court, you have to have violated the law and be at risk for punishment. And your legal fees will be VERY expensive, not to mention the missed work, travel, and other expenses. -Troy |
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