Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 4/13/2002 1:15:48 PM EDT
Hey all. Hope all is going well. My Brother is in Saudi now doing his time for all of US (Pun intended)

I had too much time on my hands and thought of something that I had to ask. (Please don't laugh to hard)

Lets say I was in the National Guard in Alaska. Jumped out of a C-130 and got seperated from my unit. I find myself lost and carrying my M-16A2 with M-855. After getting my compass bearings, I start humping toward civilization. After a short time I realize that a big ol Grizzly is pretty ticked with me there and decides to attack me.

Now b4 I ask this, this info is on the Alaska state gov website (a .38 special will penetrate the skull of a Grizzly)

If I start shooting with my A2, will I live??

What do you think?
Mortis...
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 1:18:07 PM EDT
All of the lebanon balogne has gone to your brain.

Link Posted: 4/13/2002 1:23:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2002 1:23:51 PM EDT by themao]
Depends. If he charges you and comes within 20 feet or so before you fire a shot, you're going to be living in a world of pain. Better load up next time with a M203.

Heheheheh. Seriously though, I wouldn't depend upon a M-16A2 to drop a charging bear, unless you emptied the whole clip into him.

Troy, where are you? Anyone with bear experience?

themao
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 1:24:21 PM EDT
You will need a Bazooka!
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 1:26:22 PM EDT
In your little fantasy, you might include mall ninja trauma plates on your body armor incase the bear has a .308 on him.

Link Posted: 4/13/2002 1:53:02 PM EDT
You are more likely to scare it off with the noise than drop him with an M16.

A .38 special will penetrate? I wonder if they tested it on a baby bear's skull that had been sitting out in the elements for 20 years...
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 2:08:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 2:17:37 PM EDT
It all depends on your range. Your not supposed to run anways, so remain calm, take aim and place your shots very carefully. Since a bear will attack on a straight and direct path, you shouldnt have a problem getting plenty of rounds into his skull, expecially with a good reflex type optic. The .223 should have no problem penetrating.

You wont have much luck with a heart shot unless the bear is standing upright, which is more of a warning stance. When the bear is on all four legs, there is waaay to much chest muscle protecting his heart.

One or two hits to the face would probably be enough to scare him. If not, then it's a good idea to go overkill and empty you mag. A fearless bear is a very dangerous bear.

I myself would rather have my AR15 than a super high powered pistol or bolt rifle. Ya cant beat 30 rounds, compact accuracy beyond 50 yards, and a bayonet that just became very useful.

The Professional
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 2:17:47 PM EDT
Why shoot him, maybe he wants to be loved and held, you guys are too violent. Hugs not slugs, Wolfpack
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 2:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Why shoot him, maybe he wants to be loved and held, you guys are too violent. Hugs not slugs, Wolfpack



Haha. Tell you what, you come on up and visit - we'll find a bear for you to hug. I'll take my video camera to prove to the world that bears just want love.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 3:19:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 3:39:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Why shoot him, maybe he wants to be loved and held, you guys are too violent. Hugs not slugs, Wolfpack



Lyle Lovett sings a song called "Bears" that goes a little like that. Do a search for the lyrics.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 4:13:46 PM EDT
I feel stupid, but what is a mall ninja?
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 5:08:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2002 5:14:10 PM EDT by Happyshooter]
www.mallninja.com
The mall ninja is the special forces of retail security....in fact, that's not fair. It is more accurate to say that delta force is the mall ninja of the military.
Eat your corn dog in the food court in peace, knowning that out there, hanging from the ceiling, or behind a plant with a barrett 50 cal, is the ninja, watching for a threat against you, the shopper, and your virgin behind.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 5:18:22 PM EDT
on shake and bake you might kill him.
penetration, quantity, noise,
it's better than nothing i know i don't want to be shot 30 times with a .223

it would make an interesting autopsy picture.

picture a bear with little pinholes in his chest and chunks of "cammi-man" showing thru.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 5:27:46 PM EDT
Friend of mine spent a good bit of time in Alaska in the Air Force.

Hunted quite a bit and was told by an old timer what to do if a bear attacked him:

Unless you get a perfect shot, that 30-06 will only piss him off.

Be sure you carry your .45 auto and empty it into the bear's mouth. That'll put the bullets into the spine and brain where they need to be.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 5:28:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2002 5:34:29 PM EDT by HKocher]
Only if it was one of the rare and infamous "Mattel M16s"....

Link Posted: 4/13/2002 5:48:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HKocher:
Only if it was one of the rare and infamous "Mattel M16s"....




WOW, where did you get that picture???????



I used to work a few blocks from them when I worked at Motorola (now gone) in El Segundo.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 5:50:01 PM EDT
Only of its a teddy bear... ;)
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 5:57:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By misterhemi:


WOW, where did you get that picture???????



I used to work a few blocks from them when I worked at Motorola (now gone) in El Segundo.



I stole it off of one of the many "Mattel M16?" threads. It's a photoshop job, but I don't remember who did it.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:09:10 PM EDT
You would have to aim carefully, bears have a THICK skull and chest plate. Recently up here in oregon, they had to put down a bear because it was wandering in to campgrounds and chasing people and whatnot, anyway after they killed it they found somthing like 100 assorted bullets in its chest, .22's and 9mm's etc. from people who had shot it over the years, crazy huh?
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:27:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2002 10:31:54 PM EDT by A2cat-man]
I talked to a guy that survived a bear attack. He wasn't much to look at anymore, but he was alive. My vote is: anything is possible. There are all kinds of ideas of which is better for a griz attack. I've been told to file the front sight off my .44 mag so it doesn't hurt so bad when the bear sticks it up my ass. I would have to say that anything is better than nothing, but an m-16 would prolly qualify as just about as close to nothing as you could get. Will you live? Sure. Just long enough for the bear to get to you and tear you a new one. I may be exagerating just a wee bit, but I'll take my .44mag with no front sight before my AR. Just my .02.

I walk around in the woods alot here and have never had a problem with bears. When I do see one, they're usually running the other way. Thank God.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:37:04 PM EDT
not a bad idea, but you would have to modify the handguards depending the size of the bear's paw.
personally i think bears would prefer ar180's but i guess it depends on the bear.
a bear i talked to last week just picked up a bushmaster shorty for home defense.
more bears are doing this after that home invasion episode (that goldilocks bitch and her gang)
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:39:07 PM EDT
I'd sure rather have a .223 than have to attack the bear with my mighty claws. I have a close friend who reported shooting up a sow brownie with 9mm 147gr after it mauled his field partner. No the bear did not keel over, but it did cease the attack.


The bears have not really come out yet here in the Alexander Archipelago. I will interview one and see what it thinks of .223s when I see one. Would you like me to interview a brown or a black bear?
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:41:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quietshoez:
not a bad idea, but you would have to modify the handguards depending the size of the bear's paw.
personally i think bears would prefer ar180's but i guess it depends on the bear.
a bear i talked to last week just picked up a bushmaster shorty for home defense.
more bears are doing this after that home invasion episode (that goldilocks bitch and her gang)




LMAO. You gotta respect them armed bears.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:45:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ustulina:
I'd sure rather have a .223 than have to attack the bear with my mighty claws. I have a close friend who reported shooting up a sow brownie with 9mm 147gr after it mauled his field partner. No the bear did not keel over, but it did cease the attack.


The bears have not really come out yet here in the Alexander Archipelago. I will interview one and see what it thinks of .223s when I see one. Would you like me to interview a brown or a black bear?




As I said, anything at all is better than nothing. Hell, trip your partner if you have to. Only kidding.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:00:00 PM EDT
Okay not to get too far of the topic but if you were going to use a gun for bear defence what would it be ?

- JoeyD
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:12:11 PM EDT
well your not going to want to lug around a big .50 bmg, when you are hiking or backpacking, you want something light and portible so I would use MAGNUM FORCE (when you read this you have to use a Sean Connery accent) magnum force, personnaly I carry a S&W titanium .357 mag when I go backpacking, the thing only weighs 18 oz. empty, I use federal premium home defence shells, although Ive never had to shoot it at anything thank goones.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:13:53 PM EDT
JoeyD,
M203 with HE rounds, shoudn't need any more than one or two rounds
- Sulaco
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:14:10 PM EDT
Actually, for bear defense, just to keep your ass alive, a full auto centerfire rifle with a high cap mag might be good to have at the ready. Even if you didn't kill it, I GUARANTEE you'll change its channel, especially with facial shots. Think about it. 30 rounds of SS109 coming in at 600 per sec, assuming you had enough time to flip the selector to auto and compose yourself, I think it would rethink its game plan. It sure would be nice if it were a .308 though. But if a one or two shot kill is a must, I'd say a Browning BAR in, say .375 H&H (no idea if Browning offers that combo) or maybe a lever action in .45-70 (again, shooting as fast as possible). Maybe even a bolt gun in .458 Mag or .470 Nitro. Brown bears are bad-ass mofo's but I think I'd rather deal with one of them than a pissed off polar bear momma with young'uns....
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:18:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mortismaker:
Hey all. Hope all is going well. My Brother is in Saudi now doing his time for all of US (Pun intended)

I had too much time on my hands and thought of something that I had to ask. (Please don't laugh to hard)

Lets say I was in the National Guard in Alaska. Jumped out of a C-130 and got seperated from my unit.



When was the last time you heard of a National Guard unit involved in a large airborne operation? Or for that matter a large scale active duty jump? How do you get seperated from 1,000 or so other people??


I find myself lost and carrying my M-16A2 with M-855.


Most of the time the military doesn't give out firearms and ammo. Noteworthy exception to that are, at the range, in combat areas, while guarding something important. Jumping out of a plane in Alaska is probably a "no ammo" situation.


After getting my compass bearings, I start humping toward civilization. After a short time I realize that a big ol Grizzly is pretty ticked with me there and decides to attack me.


What exactly did you do to that poor bear?? If you were poking him in the eye with a short stick...........Unlikely that you would run into a "ticked off bear".


Now b4 I ask this, this info is on the Alaska state gov website (a .38 special will penetrate the skull of a Grizzly)

If I start shooting with my A2, will I live??

What do you think?
Mortis...



The possiblity of you being in the National Guard, being involved in an airdrop, in Alaska, and getting seperated from your unit is only slightly less likely than getting hit by lightning 4 times, in a row, indoors, at night, during a full moon, at high tide. So your chances are good.............
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:24:18 PM EDT
Rifle; .45-70, .444, or .450 in a lever action. .338WM, .375h&h, .416. Hand guns; maybe a .44, .454 casull up close and real personal. Shotgun; 12 gauge with alternating loads of slugs and 00 buck shot. A "friend" that can't run as fast as you is always nice to have around. Again, just kidding about the friend.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:27:41 PM EDT
My .357 only holds 5 rounds, so the bear would probibly get me anyway, unless I got a lucky eye shot or somthing. BUT I would only use the gun as a last resort on a bear, only if I was actually getting attacked. I have heard several different things that you are supposed to do if you encounter a bear, the formost being play dead. but recently I have heard that you should raise your hands over your head (make yourself look as big as possible) and growl and snarl and make alot of noise, and even run at the bear
supposidly, this scared them and they will run away, like your showing your dominance or somthing. THAT WOULD TAKE ALOT OF BALLS! I have seen bears in the wild, from a distance and they have never bothered me, I guess you just hope you are never in that situation, but if you are its better to have any gun than none
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:29:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2002 11:30:08 PM EDT by JoeyD]

Originally Posted By A2cat-man:
Rifle; .45-70, .444, or .450 in a lever action. .338WM, .375h&h, .416. Hand guns; maybe a .44, .454 casull up close and real personal. Shotgun; 12 gauge with alternating loads of slugs and 00 buck shot. A "friend" that can't run as fast as you is always nice to have around. Again, just kidding about the friend.



Very funny. It just happens that the friend I'd be with when I might run across a bear doesn't run all that fast ;). But he does have a 45-70, so I guess I've finally found that reason to pick up an 870.

Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:42:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeyD:

Originally Posted By A2cat-man:
Rifle; .45-70, .444, or .450 in a lever action. .338WM, .375h&h, .416. Hand guns; maybe a .44, .454 casull up close and real personal. Shotgun; 12 gauge with alternating loads of slugs and 00 buck shot. A "friend" that can't run as fast as you is always nice to have around. Again, just kidding about the friend.



Very funny. It just happens that the friend I'd be with when I might run across a bear doesn't run all that fast ;). But he does have a 45-70, so I guess I've finally found that reason to pick up an 870.




I was thinking of a short barrel shotgun, like a mossberg 500. Does the 870 have a short barrel? I don't know one hell of alot about shotguns, as you can see. But a long barrel would come in handy for tripping your partner if he gets ahead of you. Kidding...only kidding. Now I'll never get anyone to go hunting with me.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:54:58 PM EDT
I have an 18" 870. That is as short as they come without tax stamps and other nonsense.

I'll go hunting with you anytime. But first I want to race you in a 100 yard dash to make sure I can win.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:58:25 PM EDT
hey that might be a good idea, I guess you would use buckshot... The thing that is different about bears than other animals is that is you wound them 9 times out of ten they will get pissed and come after you rather than get scared and run away. so if you were going to shoot at them you would want to be sure that you were going to kill them.. hell bears arent even scary compared to bigfoot!! hell he will take your shotgun and shoot you with it!
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:01:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A2cat-man:

Originally Posted By JoeyD:

Originally Posted By A2cat-man:
Rifle; .45-70, .444, or .450 in a lever action. .338WM, .375h&h, .416. Hand guns; maybe a .44, .454 casull up close and real personal. Shotgun; 12 gauge with alternating loads of slugs and 00 buck shot. A "friend" that can't run as fast as you is always nice to have around. Again, just kidding about the friend.



Very funny. It just happens that the friend I'd be with when I might run across a bear doesn't run all that fast ;). But he does have a 45-70, so I guess I've finally found that reason to pick up an 870.




I was thinking of a short barrel shotgun, like a mossberg 500. Does the 870 have a short barrel? I don't know one hell of alot about shotguns, as you can see. But a long barrel would come in handy for tripping your partner if he gets ahead of you. Kidding...only kidding. Now I'll never get anyone to go hunting with me.



I'd go hunting with you as long you were not offened by me walking a few steps back and let me paint a gaint bright red circle on your back just joking. Yup the Remington 870 comes with a 18in barrel all the way up to at least a 28in.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:11:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2002 12:16:59 AM EDT by WSmac]
You can do a search here for topics about guns for bears, it's been discussed at length a couple of times before.
I have a grizzly skull upstairs from an 8y.o. male who was shot six times (if I remember correctly) by three guys shooting three .338's (one with the loudest m@*>%f^*$#ing KDF I ever had the misfortune to be next to). I believe a .38 could make it into the skull. Would it do this on a moving grizzly? I don't know, but I doubt it would do much to save your hide!
If you seriously are wondering where the first shot should go on a charging bear... my vote is for a shoulder. Try and keep it from getting to you, then finish it off...NEVER walk away from a wounded animal!
My first shot at the bear mentioned above was a full-on chest shot at approx. 50 yds or so. He dropped his head as I shot, or so I figure because his jaw was shot through on the right side. After he turned tail to run across the small glacial stream then up an 8-10ft. embankment (picking up .338 rounds as he went), I got a shot that must have been close to the spine. He lost all control from behind his front legs. You could see him struggle to get up, then he'd collapse. We'd wait to make sure he was down then he'd pick up his head again. After a measured 10 minutes ( the rule was don't approach the bear for 10min. to make sure he was dead) , the bear got up on all fours and started walking away, broadside to me. I got the final, fatal shot.
For what it's worth, this was the worst shooting I have ever done and ever seen displayed by hunting partners. My first bear hunt. I've only hunted with my brother before and I don't think I'll ever hunt with anyone else but him again.

Oh yeah, about the M16, considering the stories about all sorts of game taken by .22's, I don't doubt that you could take down a grizzly with a .223...but then again...
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:19:12 AM EDT
My dad has a friend in Alaska that does some guiding, and has had to put a couple down due to "stupid clients." He swears that you should carry any weapon you are the most comfortable with. His weapon of choice: a Winchester 94 in .30-30. We have black bear here in Washington, and whenever I am in an area where I may bump into one I am not carrying my AR; I am carrying my AK which will be replaced by my FAL if I can ever finish it.

Kyle
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:28:36 AM EDT
I think we've all forgotten Birdmans .50cal entry weapon. Perfect for bears, elephant, rhino, and all other dangerous game.


Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:39:13 AM EDT
I think that is the most realistic Birdman weapon I have seen yet. If it were real I would want one...
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:49:10 AM EDT
we are all up way too late, what about bigfoots, or should I say (bigfeet), they scare the sh@t out of me, im up in oregon (bigfoot country I know, im insane) would you shoot one?
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 6:01:17 AM EDT
This may be the one and only tactical reason to own a Desert Eagle .50

If it jams, I guess you could always grab the barrel and beat yourself with it and hope you black out before the bear gets on top of you.


Link Posted: 4/14/2002 6:04:35 AM EDT
One round in each eye with a 10/22.. Then run and hide brom the big mean blind bear! Hell if you're in the NG, you'll probaby need to remove your BFD and shoot sections of blank powered cleaning rod sections anyway!
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 9:26:56 AM EDT
The father of a co-worker use to guide for brownies out on Kodiak. His story goes something like this. He was carrying an .06 bolt and 220 grainers. The bear came out of nowhere, as they usually do from what I understand, and charged him, don't remember the distance. His first shot found center mass and the bear didn't even slow down. The next remaining rounds all found the appropriate spots, where he was trying to aim, before the bear fell 6' in front of him. He said he didn't really start shaking until after it was over, when he fell apart and started crying like a baby. That's the day he said he started smoking. They recovered all the rounds or found where each round entered and exited. He's got the hide hanging on his wall.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 10:51:44 AM EDT
Carry pepper spray. At least the bears shit will smell like peppers a day later.
GG
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 11:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gun Guru:
Carry pepper spray. At least the bears shit will smell like peppers a day later.
GG



You'll be able to revel in the fact that it'll hurt him as much coming out as it did going in.

I'll take a 12 ga. with 3" slugs; one of my hunting party about 10 years ago dropped a large black bear on the run nearly in his tracks with 2 quick shots to the shoulder.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:48:17 PM EDT
i believe the ar15 to be an excellent bare defense gun.if i was naked though,i would probably shoot my way to my pants.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:55:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
This may be the one and only tactical reason to own a Desert Eagle .50

If it jams, I guess you could always grab the barrel and beat yourself with it and hope you black out before the bear gets on top of you.




if? don't you mean WHEN it jams?
personally i carried a S&w .44 magnum or a .12ga loaded with 3" magnum slugs whenever i have ventured into "bar" country.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 3:18:38 PM EDT
I've got some pics to post but can only get the text to come up. They are some great pics of a young Airman from Elmendorf AFB, AK. that was attacked by a huge brown bear this past fall. He shot the bear but apparently had to forfiet the hide as he had no tag for a brown bear. I would appreciate any help getting the pics posted. Some have seen these but I'm sure there are plenty that have not. Thanks for any help.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top