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Posted: 9/21/2011 3:12:02 PM EST
i work at a local police dept so i dont know if that will help any? i am wanting to build a 10.5'' sbr?
how would i go about starting the paperwork i am ordering me a brand new lower nxt mon for this build if it is possible
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 3:37:02 PM EST
You can buy the lower now. Fill out an ATF NFA form 1.

Steps
Buy lower
Get fingerprinted
passport photo
fill out forum 1
get form 1 signed by the chief law enforcement officer of you area
send form in with 200$ check to department of justice
wait 4 months

That is it. Hope this helps

Link Posted: 9/21/2011 3:43:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2011 3:44:48 PM EST by die-tryin]
Originally Posted By ruger556boy:
You can buy the lower now. Fill out an ATF NFA form 1.

Steps
Buy lower
fill out form 1
Get fingerprinted
passport photo
get form 1 signed by the chief law enforcement officer of you area

setup Trust and avoid all the above
send form in with 200$ check to department of justice
wait 4 months

That is it. Hope this helps



Fixed it

Actually you working for the LE will help your chances to get a Sign Off, but thats about it. Locally the CLEO wont even sign off for his own people.

Link Posted: 9/21/2011 3:55:28 PM EST
You can either do a Form 1 SBR with your Chief's signature, your picture, and fingerprints.

If you use a Revocable Living Trust you forego all of the above.

Minimum req:
2 copies of the Form 1, front and back.
Certificate of Compliance x 1
Check for $200 to Department of the Justice
Possibly––full copy of notarized revocable living trust

About 5mo waiting now...

Advice: build AR pistol lower and function test with your chosen upper/assembly before submitting for SBR stamp.

Get Form 1 back, add stock.

FWIW, the barrel length of 10.5 is to be noted as 29.5" overall length.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 3:55:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Originally Posted By ruger556boy:
You can buy the lower now. Fill out an ATF NFA form 1.

Steps
Buy lower
fill out form 1
Get fingerprinted
passport photo
get form 1 signed by the chief law enforcement officer of you area

setup Trust and avoid all the above
send form in with 200$ check to department of justice
wait 4 months

That is it. Hope this helps



Fixed it

Actually you working for the LE will help your chances to get a Sign Off, but thats about it. Locally the CLEO wont even sign off for his own people.



I would not call a trust a fix just a alternative.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 4:05:45 PM EST
I always wanted an SBR but thought I'd never get the local police to sign off.. I'm not sure I follow the trust option, a quick google seems like it's like a will. Is this the proper forum to ask about SBR process etc? And is there a sticky or better set of instructions somewhere? Seems like it would have been covered and tacked at some point... thanks...
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 4:14:29 PM EST
thanks to all that have chimed in i will talk to my chief tom and see what he says. if i can get him to sign off then i might just go that route. not exactly sure how the trust work gonna try google as well
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 4:20:56 PM EST
Actually downloaded and read the form. The language makes it seem that they can't refuse... it's just a statement that you live in this location and you are not in trouble in anyway that they know of.... signed here, police office here. It's not a permission slip based on the language in the document. There is nothing to indicate that they would have any say in your getting a tax stamp at all... Is it really a hassle?
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 4:46:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Actually downloaded and read the form. The language makes it seem that they can't refuse... it's just a statement that you live in this location and you are not in trouble in anyway that they know of.... signed here, police office here. It's not a permission slip based on the language in the document. There is nothing to indicate that they would have any say in your getting a tax stamp at all... Is it really a hassle?


It has always been my understanding that you can have multiple people ( think husband/wife/adult children ) on a trust and anyone listed on the trust can be in possession of said NFA item, and that is where the real advantage is. Not to mention getting around the finger prints, picture, and CLEO sign off.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 4:53:44 PM EST
My local Chief will not sign off for his own Officers...
And neither will the Sheriff for her own Deputies.

If you're at all considering multiple NFA items a trust is wayyyy more better since the amount of photos and fingerprints and signatures goes down in groups of forms.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 4:59:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2011 4:59:40 PM EST by die-tryin]
Originally Posted By mnandy:
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Actually downloaded and read the form. The language makes it seem that they can't refuse... it's just a statement that you live in this location and you are not in trouble in anyway that they know of.... signed here, police office here. It's not a permission slip based on the language in the document. There is nothing to indicate that they would have any say in your getting a tax stamp at all... Is it really a hassle?


It has always been my understanding that you can have multiple people ( think husband/wife/adult children ) on a trust and anyone listed on the trust can be in possession of said NFA item, .


I dont believe that to be true.. That is why LLC has an advantage over a Trust.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 5:09:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Originally Posted By mnandy:
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Actually downloaded and read the form. The language makes it seem that they can't refuse... it's just a statement that you live in this location and you are not in trouble in anyway that they know of.... signed here, police office here. It's not a permission slip based on the language in the document. There is nothing to indicate that they would have any say in your getting a tax stamp at all... Is it really a hassle?


It has always been my understanding that you can have multiple people ( think husband/wife/adult children ) on a trust and anyone listed on the trust can be in possession of said NFA item, .


I dont believe that to be true.. That is why LLC has an advantage over a Trust.


It is true, all the trustees can be in possession. I think it can be worded otherwise, but I know my trust allows all trustees to possess my our NFA items. I also have it worded that the grantor (myself) is the only one that can buy/sell the items in the trust.

It is worth the one time fee IMHO. I would recommend a lawyer over Quicken/writing your own––I want to KNOW it's done right with NFA items. Some CLEO's won't sign off, but either way you don't have to go to them for each item (plus get finger printed and take passport photos). Also, the items do not become a burden on your family in the unfortunate (and inevitable) event that you pass away.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 5:13:00 PM EST
Talking to your chief will be cheaper, everyone says do a trust but never mentions the $400 loyer fees usually.

My chief had no problems signing off and what can it hurt to ask
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 5:30:05 PM EST
Or you could DIY...Quicken...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 5:41:17 PM EST
I had read the internet so much I always thought it had to be "approved" by the local police. But after reading the form, Im certain that is not the case at all...

Here's the text:

"I certify that I am the chief law enforcement officer of the organization named below having jurisdiction in the area of residence of" ____

"I have no information indicating that the maker will use the firearm or device described on this application for other than lawful purposes. I have no information that Possession of the Firearm described in Item 4 on the Front of this Form would place the maker in Violation of State or Local Law." ____

and the instructions say:

"f. Law Enforcement Certification. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police for the maker’s city or town of residence, the Sheriff for the maker’s county of residence; the Head of the State Police for the maker’s State of residence; a State or local district attorney or prosecutor having jurisdiction in the maker’s area of residence; or another person whose certifcation is acceptable to the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives. If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application"

They cannot not sign it. There is nothing in the form that would give them the authority to say no to you. If you read section 7, Reasons for Disapproval, there is nothing allowing them to say no. Nada. Zero.

I'm going to bounce the form and questions off my attorney and if so... I'm going to start the tax stamp process. It's pays to read the instructions! The form has a ATF help phone number as well, I may call them too. I mean, let's face it, what authority does this person have to deny a US citizen the right to legally obtain something? None. None what-so-ever. As long as you are legal, they can't do anything. And that's all the signature says. You're not in trouble and there are no local laws outlawing the item in question. It's really no different than the FBI check, it's just local and in person instead of over the phone. I would imagine anyone refusing to sign said paperwork would change their mind after a properly worded letter from an attorney. I liked this quote I found reading about it:

"There are also ways to force the CLEO to sign. You can threaten or actually file a lawsuit against him for not signing. You can go to his political boss (city or county government) and threaten them with a lawsuit if CLEO will not sign." another was, "if you cause him/her enough unnecessary problems, they will sign the form."



Link Posted: 9/22/2011 12:49:00 AM EST
Sign-off is at the CLEO's discretion. If he won't sign chances are you're in an area where his "political bosses" are as anti-gun as he is. Cause him enough "unnecessary problems" and he'll have a reason for not signing like " the applicant has anger management issues" or " exhibits unstable behavior", or some other BS excuse.

If you think you may want to acquire more NFA items in the future it will be worth the money to establish an NFA trust.

Benefits include:
-No CLEO sign-off, fingerprints, or photo required
-All the trustees you name or add later can possess and use the items in the trust ( as long as they are not legally disqualified). This can include family and friends.
-Perhaps MOST IMPORTANTLY, the trust allows your items to be inherited by your heirs (trustees) without any complicated paperwork ( as long as they
are not disqualified or live in a state which doesn't allow the particular item) It also protects the trustees from illegally taking possession, possible
legal snafu's, and establishes a temporary custodian if the trustee is a minor at the time of your passing, and has to wait to take possession.
-Shortened pending times at BATFE (my last two form 4's and a form 1 went pending 2/28 and came to me 5/20)

Get trust
Buy lower
Engrave lower ( I noticed the previous posts neglected this step.)
Send 2 copies of form 1, 1 copy Certificate of compliance, copy of body of trust (not certification) and Assignment page (with only the item{s} you are seeking a stamp for listed, and $200 to Dept. of Justice
Build lower as pistol to test/have fun
Purchase SBR upper
When stamp arrives you can add stock to lower
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 2:54:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By 2tonic:
Sign-off is at the CLEO's discretion. If he won't sign chances are you're in an area where his "political bosses" are as anti-gun as he is. Cause him enough "unnecessary problems" and he'll have a reason for not signing like " the applicant has anger management issues" or " exhibits unstable behavior", or some other BS excuse.


That's just it - that's a myth. And we need to stop spreading it, so everyone knows it's a myth. None of what you wrote is an acceptable reason - none of those stop you from getting a regular firearm, none would apply here. The form clearly states acceptable reasons for denial, and none are subjective. It's cut and dry legalese. Not a criminal, no local law = you will be approved, no matter what.

All the signature states is, you are not a criminal AND there are no local laws prohibiting you from owning a SBR. The second part being the key. That's really what the ATF is looking for from the CLEO.

I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ last night and it's long, and the more I read there and elsewhere, the more I know they have no choice. In fact I saved one post in particular, that is the ATF procedure for reporting any official who refuses to process the paperwork. It's cut and dry folks, it's not politics. It's not morals. Do not be intimidated. That doesn't mean be a dick, but do not accept no for an answer when you are doing everything as you should.

Link Posted: 9/22/2011 5:34:46 AM EST
Of course they can refuse to sign it.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 6:21:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Originally Posted By 2tonic:
Sign-off is at the CLEO's discretion. If he won't sign chances are you're in an area where his "political bosses" are as anti-gun as he is. Cause him enough "unnecessary problems" and he'll have a reason for not signing like " the applicant has anger management issues" or " exhibits unstable behavior", or some other BS excuse.


That's just it - that's a myth. And we need to stop spreading it, so everyone knows it's a myth. None of what you wrote is an acceptable reason - none of those stop you from getting a regular firearm, none would apply here. The form clearly states acceptable reasons for denial, and none are subjective. It's cut and dry legalese. Not a criminal, no local law = you will be approved, no matter what.

All the signature states is, you are not a criminal AND there are no local laws prohibiting you from owning a SBR. The second part being the key. That's really what the ATF is looking for from the CLEO.

I spent a lot of time reading the FAQ last night and it's long, and the more I read there and elsewhere, the more I know they have no choice. In fact I saved one post in particular, that is the ATF procedure for reporting any official who refuses to process the paperwork. It's cut and dry folks, it's not politics. It's not morals. Do not be intimidated. That doesn't mean be a dick, but do not accept no for an answer when you are doing everything as you should.



I really like your tenacity, but the fact is that an LEO can refuse to sign whatever they want, as has been the case for MANY MANY years, and has led to folks pursuing other routes to obtain NFA items (corps, LLCs, trusts).

I agree that many CLEO are ignorant of the paperwork and believe that their signature is affirming that you are some awesome dude and they are giving you permission outright and it is worth talking to them, but there are plenty anti-gun CLEOs that don't want NFA items in their state and refuse.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 7:42:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 7:56:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2011 7:57:22 AM EST by die-tryin]
Originally Posted By BrowardMason:
HOW TO FILE A FORM 1

TRUST INFO


/THREAD


Nope, not /Thread. Bad links within that 2nd thread and the usual mis-information that is floating within it.

Link Posted: 9/22/2011 8:56:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Originally Posted By BrowardMason:
HOW TO FILE A FORM 1

TRUST INFO


/THREAD


Nope, not /Thread. Bad links within that 2nd thread and the usual mis-information that is floating within it.



such as....
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 9:17:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2011 9:19:00 AM EST by die-tryin]
Originally Posted By hellbound:
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Originally Posted By BrowardMason:
HOW TO FILE A FORM 1

TRUST INFO


/THREAD


Nope, not /Thread. Bad links within that 2nd thread and the usual mis-information that is floating within it.



such as....



Not going to pick it apart and post everything lil detail. There are already too many Wanna be Lawyers on here. This thread alone shows that.

For example. One person stated that ANYONE on the Trust can possess the NFA items. This Incorrect.

Later on, someone else posted that the TRUSTEE(s) can possess NFA items. This is correct.

Back to the Form 1 and only part of the CLEO statement is being posted. The beginning part states that the CLEO doesnt have any knowledge right now that someone wont use the NFA in the future illegally. While this is true. No CLEO or anyone for that matter can predict the future.

No way a CLEO would sign something that says. "Right now they havent done anything but not sure about tomorrow" And this is exactly how MY CLEO read those statements, hence the reason he wont sign. I got this word for word from my local CLEO when I tried to get my Form 4 signed.

Those that think they can make the CLEO sign is in for one major uphill battle that may not end well for them. At the very least you tell them how you feel about them not signing and tell them good luck in the next elections.

And since everyone is so full of knowledge, Im sure everyone realizes that a CLEO is only a small portion of personal that can sign the Forms. There is a list on the ATF website that says who can sign.

Same goes with the Trust, LLC route. There are even more Entities that can possess NFA items, such as Partnerships and others that I cant remember off the top of my head.

All I can say is people need to research more and not rely on internet message boards for the exact truths and facts. While many have good intentions, I still believe alot of miss-information is floating around.

Some of us have no problem getting NFA and have several, its easy and doesnt need to be any more complicated than it already is. I feel many make it harder on themselves.

Ok Rant over.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 9:22:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Some of us have no problem getting NFA and have several, its easy and doesnt need to be any more complicated than it already is. I feel many make it harder on themselves.


I couldn't agree with this statement anymore...

it's a full time job to police NFA related threads, cite legitimate references, and try to keep the misinformation brigade and fear mongers at bay...

I was dissuaded from going the NFA route for many years, in late 2009 I had our trust drafted and sent away five form 1s, got them back in early 2010, then a form 4 for a suppressor in mid-2010, another form 1 in late 2010, etc... it's a very simple painless process.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 11:10:15 AM EST
I believe there was a court case about forcing a CLEO to sign.... they don't have to.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 11:12:49 AM EST
What county are you in?
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 2:52:24 PM EST
well it looks like i am gonna have to order a pistol lower and start the paper work on it. then maybe in a couple weeks order the upper. i am prob gonna go 10.5" barrel.

is the paperwork a big hassle just wondering doesnt matter if it is or not tho
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 2:55:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2011 2:59:07 PM EST by Cycline3]
I really like your tenacity, but the fact is that an LEO can refuse to sign whatever they want, as has been the case for MANY MANY years, and has led to folks pursuing other routes to obtain NFA items (corps, LLCs, trusts).

I agree that many CLEO are ignorant of the paperwork and believe that their signature is affirming that you are some awesome dude and they are giving you permission outright and it is worth talking to them, but there are plenty anti-gun CLEOs that don't want NFA items in their state and refuse.


Thanks! Doing an LLC is easy, and would be my punt. I don't plan on having to do that though. I ordered the official forms from the ATF today. I am starting the SBR route.

The fact is, the country is fucked up, with way too many people walking around thinking the world revolves around them, including LEOs of any rank. They are employees of an organization, and as such have responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is doing background checks and sign offs. No CLEOS would deny the government organization I work for a background check request, and I intend to fully assert my legal rights in making sure they do not deny me as an individual the exact same treatment. It's not actually optional as you say... it's what they do. It's no different then them saying we won't arrest a criminal because our CLEO doesn't want to.

You HAVE to remember, this is not illegal, and it is part of their job. I think I have already made the commitment in my head to sue, if I get denied a signature out of sheer principle. Letting people get away with things that are wrong does NOT help our society, even if they work for the police. Hell, especially if they work for the police.

That said, as above, I do not plan on being a dick. I have a feeling most that don't sign off, it's simply a matter of lack of knowledge and understanding. Many of those officials are under than same spell of Internet hype and rumor that we all have been. I guess I woke up.. read the papers and realized it's not AT ALL what most people think it is.

I have a feeling if you get your shite together correctly, go in with clear citations and explanations of what the signature really means, that you are not a criminal and no local laws exist and nothing more, include ATF contact info and an explanation that the ATF expects you to report him/her if they do not process the paperwork ––- well, I think you can win the most difficult of cases with a calm, professional attitude.

Again, none of this is illegal, it's simply registration of a legal weapon... you are following the directions to the letter, and the ATF does NOT want you to seek an illegal weapon, which you may choose to do if said CLEO doesn't sign off. Wonder if he could be held liable in court for that? Bet so. Bet alot so. Seems like signing off is the way to NOT be responsible for what you do with said weapon. And any lawyer will tell you, you're never wrong, if you argue right. Remember, don't be a dick. At least not outright. Polite and nice passive aggressive if you have to. Again, not accepting no is not the same as flipping out.

I highly recommend everyone read the tacked FAQ thread.. not sure how I missed it, but once I read it.. I felt much more certain, anyone who can legally own a firearm can get an SBR if they take the time and follow the directions. There are no subjective tests (no leo can say I don't think he should have one) it's all legal objective things - are you a felon? etc... are there any local or state laws prohibiting an sbr? then you my friend can have one just like any other firearm you already own or could own. All perfectly legal.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 3:58:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By mnandy:
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Actually downloaded and read the form. The language makes it seem that they can't refuse... it's just a statement that you live in this location and you are not in trouble in anyway that they know of.... signed here, police office here. It's not a permission slip based on the language in the document. There is nothing to indicate that they would have any say in your getting a tax stamp at all... Is it really a hassle?


It has always been my understanding that you can have multiple people ( think husband/wife/adult children ) on a trust and anyone listed on the trust can be in possession of said NFA item, and that is where the real advantage is. Not to mention getting around the finger prints, picture, and CLEO sign off.


This.

A trust is not only easier, but in my opinion, a much smarter option. It provides an instrument with which the weapon will remain in the possession of your heirs should you die, allows others to legally possess the weapon should be gone (deployed, traveling, whatever) and would let others enjoy it without you being around. Be careful on that last part though...you can't have a bunch of friends' cousin's neighbors on their...that won't fly. Keep it family.

FWIW....and IMO, I don't really have a problem with a CLEO refusing to sign. I don't consider it a poor reflection on me, nor do I consider that the CLEO is anti-gun. More accurately, the CLEO might be "personal preservation". Can you imagine what would happen if someone breaks into your home, steals your SBR (or other NFA fun stuff) and shoots three nuns and a gas station attendant with it? How do guns like this get on the street? Well, the press will say Chief such and such, or the sheriff of "x" approved the sale. Then it's on.

Sorry for the drivel...put together a trust. Save your chief the heartburn. It's quick, easy, inexpensive, and best yet, you only have to do it once in order to aquire more NFA stuff in the future.

FWIW...and respectfully submitted as always.

Link Posted: 9/26/2011 12:17:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By hellbound:
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
Some of us have no problem getting NFA and have several, its easy and doesnt need to be any more complicated than it already is. I feel many make it harder on themselves.


I couldn't agree with this statement anymore...

it's a full time job to police NFA related threads, cite legitimate references, and try to keep the misinformation brigade and fear mongers at bay...

I was dissuaded from going the NFA route for many years, in late 2009 I had our trust drafted and sent away five form 1s, got them back in early 2010, then a form 4 for a suppressor in mid-2010, another form 1 in late 2010, etc... it's a very simple painless process.


I agree with hellbound, simple and painless although it becomes an expensive habit to feed. I had no problems getting my CLEO to sign so I went that route, others live where the CLEO won't sign, period, for what ever reason. Down the road I'll consider the Trust, LLC option to reduce the steps in the NFA process.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 8:14:30 PM EST
Reading all this makes me really appreciate having a pro-gun Sheriff. Not only does he sign my Form 1/4's without a problem he also actively encourages every citizen to get their CCW and carry a pistol. I'm glad the trust route is available to those with CLEO's who are dicks though! Just don't skimp and half-ass your trust, if it's not done correctly you may get approval only to be subject to future forfeiture of your guns if it is later found that your trust wasn't correctly drawn up for NFA.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 6:44:59 PM EST
I went with an NFA trust because the local Barney Fife's have no business knowing what I legally possess. And for my wife (and when the kids make 21) can legally posses the items if I am not around. And as I understand it, going the individual route limits the immediate possession of the item to the applicant only. So nobody else can lawfully use your NFA item even if you are present.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 7:25:02 PM EST
Are you the OP going to try using this SBR for a patrol rifle?? Becuase there you may catch a snag. Your boss and his boss's might get there boxers in a bunch over this idea. This happened to a friend of mine that works for two different depts here in N.E. Ohio. Thus the reason he has two patrol rifles. The smaller of the two cities told him, threw city council. "He would be fired if he used his SBR on the job". And then made it a rule that only 16 in. rifles and 18 in. shotguns could be used as partol long guns. S.W.A.T. included, WTF???

Stupid, but thats whats we get for letting stupid peaple in office. More stupid shit........

So i'm just passing along some info. Hope it helps
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 12:59:12 PM EST
Where do you live in WV ? Because in alot of areas it is no problem getting the form signed.

Originally Posted By Cycline3:
I really like your tenacity, but the fact is that an LEO can refuse to sign whatever they want, as has been the case for MANY MANY years, and has led to folks pursuing other routes to obtain NFA items (corps, LLCs, trusts).

I agree that many CLEO are ignorant of the paperwork and believe that their signature is affirming that you are some awesome dude and they are giving you permission outright and it is worth talking to them, but there are plenty anti-gun CLEOs that don't want NFA items in their state and refuse.


Thanks! Doing an LLC is easy, and would be my punt. I don't plan on having to do that though. I ordered the official forms from the ATF today. I am starting the SBR route.

The fact is, the country is fucked up, with way too many people walking around thinking the world revolves around them, including LEOs of any rank. They are employees of an organization, and as such have responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is doing background checks and sign offs. No CLEOS would deny the government organization I work for a background check request, and I intend to fully assert my legal rights in making sure they do not deny me as an individual the exact same treatment. It's not actually optional as you say... it's what they do. It's no different then them saying we won't arrest a criminal because our CLEO doesn't want to.

You HAVE to remember, this is not illegal, and it is part of their job. I think I have already made the commitment in my head to sue, if I get denied a signature out of sheer principle. Letting people get away with things that are wrong does NOT help our society, even if they work for the police. Hell, especially if they work for the police.

That said, as above, I do not plan on being a dick. I have a feeling most that don't sign off, it's simply a matter of lack of knowledge and understanding. Many of those officials are under than same spell of Internet hype and rumor that we all have been. I guess I woke up.. read the papers and realized it's not AT ALL what most people think it is.

I have a feeling if you get your shite together correctly, go in with clear citations and explanations of what the signature really means, that you are not a criminal and no local laws exist and nothing more, include ATF contact info and an explanation that the ATF expects you to report him/her if they do not process the paperwork ––- well, I think you can win the most difficult of cases with a calm, professional attitude.

Again, none of this is illegal, it's simply registration of a legal weapon... you are following the directions to the letter, and the ATF does NOT want you to seek an illegal weapon, which you may choose to do if said CLEO doesn't sign off. Wonder if he could be held liable in court for that? Bet so. Bet alot so. Seems like signing off is the way to NOT be responsible for what you do with said weapon. And any lawyer will tell you, you're never wrong, if you argue right. Remember, don't be a dick. At least not outright. Polite and nice passive aggressive if you have to. Again, not accepting no is not the same as flipping out.

I highly recommend everyone read the tacked FAQ thread.. not sure how I missed it, but once I read it.. I felt much more certain, anyone who can legally own a firearm can get an SBR if they take the time and follow the directions. There are no subjective tests (no leo can say I don't think he should have one) it's all legal objective things - are you a felon? etc... are there any local or state laws prohibiting an sbr? then you my friend can have one just like any other firearm you already own or could own. All perfectly legal.







Link Posted: 10/1/2011 2:02:08 PM EST
Old topic but, how old do you have to be to sbr a rifle? I have heard it might be different if it is a factory sbr, is this right? thanks.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 11:40:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By connorh:
Old topic but, how old do you have to be to sbr a rifle? I have heard it might be different if it is a factory sbr, is this right? thanks.


21 to transfer via Form 4.
18 if you make and register via F1.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:32:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
I went with an NFA trust because the local Barney Fife's have no business knowing what I legally possess. And for my wife (and when the kids make 21) can legally posses the items if I am not around. And as I understand it, going the individual route limits the immediate possession of the item to the applicant only. So nobody else can lawfully use your NFA item even if you are present.


Incorrect. As long as you are present, no transfer has taken place and anyone that would be legally allowed to use a firearm, may use your NFA item. If you are not present, then an illegal transfer has taken place.
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