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Posted: 2/6/2006 8:07:29 PM EDT
tenitivly the following may become availible for the civilian market

sig 55x
FN SCAR, and fs2000
possibly an AUG

concept wise is any of these systems better than the other, at the moment i am leaning toward the new SCAR H or the 55x, just trying to understand what would be a better platform,

i know we will have to wait until they they come out, to find out what may be the better weapon

I think that the SCAR will end up being more divers as it was design to be used in multiple rolse such as a Automatic Rifle/DM/CQB role,
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:27:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:

I think that the SCAR will end up being more divers as it was design to be used in multiple rolse such as a Automatic Rifle/DM/CQB role,



You can bump fire the SCAR underwater??

It seems the Aug has a hate it or love it following due to the bullpup config. Otherwise, none of the rifles impress me much beyond the AR except the Sig just because I've wanted a Sig for years n years.
But really, at the end of the day I dont see any signifigant differences. I'm sure they'll all put holes in paper quite well.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:36:13 PM EDT
The scuttlebut is that the FN-ARM (from the SCAR program) is supposedly being fielded in theater now. It went thruogh what is probably the most intensive dev. program any small arm ever has, though it still has to prove itself in the crucible. That said, I suspect it'll do well, as those test standards looked stringent. Has a lot of nice features, though I wish it would've incorporated a swappable mag wel & true quick-change bbl., rather than the retention bolts it uses. Still, it is a nice rifle, especially in the -H cal., as there hasn't been much of a revolution in the way of .308 cal small arms in years.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:47:18 PM EDT
LOL,

forgot about the underwater bumpfiring thread, wow that was a good one, i think it would be funny if one of the test was underwater bumpfiring

Master blaster i here what you are saying, although the sig is probly a great weapon, and if the price is right i may buy one, I think that a little more went into the development of the SCAR and will be shown in the future,

time will tell,
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:25:44 AM EDT
Its best to base your decision on facts:

1) The SCAR is being fielded at this time, actually has been for a while.

2) The FS2000 has been announced as being produced for the US market, not the SCAR.

3) The Sig 55x is just a rumor, and one that has been around for years. Hopefully Sig will announce somthing this week at the SHOT show, otherwise its vapor.These are nice weapons but I dont see the real advantage over the FN products (FNC, FS2000, SCAR). The magazines are flimsy. They command high prices now simply because there are so few of them.

4) The AUG is still at the rumor stage. When this was going hot and heavy last year, Karl at Steyr told me "no way." They would have to have enough demand to build a plant here (and a few thousand is not enough demand..). The Austrian imports never sold that well here before the ban, I have to remain somewhat skeptical.

Of all these, your best bet is FN, they already have a plant in South Carolina and already have large military contracts (M16, M240, M249, SCAR, etc). I'd definitely go for a SCAR if produced, especially if it anywhere near the quality of my FN FNC (and I hear it is-from SOCOM personnel I served with, not the internet...)
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:33:34 AM EDT
well your right about much of this being vapor untill they hit the market, at least I got a conformation from FN stating that the SCAR H in paticular should be out in at the end of the year, given that military requirments are fulfilled

as for the F2000 i understand that it is a civy weapon, but wonder if they attempt to develop it in a simalar manner as there otehr weapons?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:42:50 PM EDT
I emailed FN and they said that the civilian version of the gun from the SCAR trials will be out in 2007. Sig just broke the news on its new US made, civilian offering. The Sig will probably be about a year ahead of the FN.


Originally Posted By MTRancher:
Its best to base your decision on facts:

1) The SCAR is being fielded at this time, actually has been for a while.

2) The FS2000 has been announced as being produced for the US market, not the SCAR.

3) The Sig 55x is just a rumor, and one that has been around for years. Hopefully Sig will announce somthing this week at the SHOT show, otherwise its vapor.These are nice weapons but I dont see the real advantage over the FN products (FNC, FS2000, SCAR). The magazines are flimsy. They command high prices now simply because there are so few of them.

4) The AUG is still at the rumor stage. When this was going hot and heavy last year, Karl at Steyr told me "no way." They would have to have enough demand to build a plant here (and a few thousand is not enough demand..). The Austrian imports never sold that well here before the ban, I have to remain somewhat skeptical.

Of all these, your best bet is FN, they already have a plant in South Carolina and already have large military contracts (M16, M240, M249, SCAR, etc). I'd definitely go for a SCAR if produced, especially if it anywhere near the quality of my FN FNC (and I hear it is-from SOCOM personnel I served with, not the internet...)

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:19:39 AM EDT
I do hope the SCAR comes out. FN has been pretty good about delivering to the civilian side. I saw the photos of the new Sig 556, Im not real impressed. I dont see where it has anything on my FN FNC.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:26:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:30:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
If FN gets more US military contracts then they will agree not to sell product to U.S. citizens just like they agreed on no AR/M16 parts sales in US




I'd wager that was a condition of them getting the TDP for the M16, since Colt owns the TDP. Not because DoD didn't want them to sell to civvies.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:39:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
If FN gets more US military contracts then they will agree not to sell product to U.S. citizens just like they agreed on no AR/M16 parts sales in US



This really doesnt make sense. I mean, how many more contracts can they get? They already make the M16, M240, M249, SCAR...They have practically become the US's state armorer.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:15:10 AM EDT
we need pics
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:25:25 AM EDT
I think those contracts and their pull is what caused them to release the ps90 and fs2000 without anymore problems. I mean look at it, both weapons are imported completely. What would happen if any other firearm maker did that even with the thumb hole stocks. Look at HK they did the same thing with their SL8 and USC. Both of which were perminatly restricted to 10round mags even though the SL8 could have had a factory hk ar adapter.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:26:55 PM EDT
i thought FNs were now made in the US?

oh well I wouldnt be surprised if strings were pulled to allow this, hey thats our sytem working at its best!

wish styer could make it
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 12:36:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
i thought FNs were now made in the US?

oh well I wouldnt be surprised if strings were pulled to allow this, hey thats our sytem working at its best!

wish styer could make it




They are.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:05:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 1:14:06 PM EDT by KogaShuko]
No they arnt we had this discussion many times on the five seven boards. Finally it took some info from an FN rep to clear it up.

I think styr perminatly pissed off the gvt. Also they are specificly named in the import ban.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:22:37 PM EDT
IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO REFER TO THESE RIFLES AS "ASSAULT RIFLES". THEY ARE RIFLES, PERIOD!!!!
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:26:19 PM EDT
honestly to me the end user, it doesnt matter where these are made now or what they are called becasue in a few years hillarly will be president and we wont have the oppertunity for new stuff,

get it now you can, this gravy train is not going to last forever
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:11:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
honestly to me the end user, it doesnt matter where these are made now or what they are called becasue in a few years hillarly will be president and we wont have the oppertunity for new stuff,

get it now you can, this gravy train is not going to last forever




I hope you're wrong but I'm afraid you're right.....
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:44:04 PM EDT
I think she would be more for guns than he was.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:44:56 PM EDT
and after hillary is done, the presidency will be handed back to the Bush family, I am sure Jeb will be the front runner

its ashame, (as Savage says) we no longer live in a representive depocracy, we are now in an oligarchy

since 1988 only two families have run this country, with hillery in office bump that up to 28 years, and jthen Jeb bush 36 years now, by that time chelsy will be in politics and passed back to the clintons

so in posibly 45 years we could get through this trend.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:52:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
and after hillary is done, the presidency will be handed back to the Bush family, I am sure Jeb will be the front runner



Damn I hope not. Jeb's already screwed up Florida...
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:57:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 5:58:22 PM EDT by olds442tyguy]

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
If FN gets more US military contracts then they will agree not to sell product to U.S. citizens just like they agreed on no AR/M16 parts sales in US


This was brought about by an agreement with Colt, not the military/government.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:06:47 PM EDT
Colt more or less HK

Used to be good = quickly became crap
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 6:39:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
If FN gets more US military contracts then they will agree not to sell product to U.S. citizens just like they agreed on no AR/M16 parts sales in US


This was brought about by an agreement with Colt, not the military/government.



FN can't legally profit in the commercial market with info taken from the TDP. In other words, they can't make AR15's while they still have contracts for M16's. If they decide to stop bidding for M16 contracts and they let their contracts run out and return the TDP to Colt, they can crank out all the AR15's they want, but they will have to be "reverse engineered".

The FN ARM-L and -H are going to be made in the US of A. That is one of the requirements of service rifles (that's why FN has a plant here in the first place).

WIZZO
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