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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:27:33 AM EDT
I found a very nice pre 1899 mauser (with a sporterized stock) in a shop the other day; I would prefer to purchase it as an antique, but I couldn't convence the shop owner to take the time to track down the details such that he was willing to sell it as a pre 1899. I can understand that he was unwilling to take any risk without official BATF information.

I am familiar with several private internet sites listing which 1893-1895 mausers are pre 1899, but I cannot find any official BATF rulings/notices on this. Any pointers to official sites would be appreciated.

Have any of the rest of you had problems convencing FFLs of an antique's status? What is your approach?

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 11:46:25 AM EDT
Tell him to read his book. I can see a guy hestitating to sell a pre 1898 rifle if you nee to look up the serial number to find out the exact year, but a Mauser will generally have it stamped right on the receiver ring for all to see. God forbid if it was a Finn'd Mosin where he would have to take the action out of the stock to check the date on the tang. If you have a C&R it wouldn't matter either way, but sounds like he's just trying to make a little more money off you because he would have to call into the system for approval. My $.02 Terry
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 11:51:49 AM EDT
If he already has it logged in his books as a regular gun, selling/transfering it regular style is the about the only way he can go about it. I think.....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:05:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By williedikker72:
Tell him to read his book. .... Terry

What book? is it available on line?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:51:24 AM EDT
i have an 1891 argy mauser that is post 1898 made. i would make sure that the gun is pre'99 before you badger him more. i had an 1888 german rifle converted by the turks that i had entered into my "bound book". i had a guy try to get me to do the sale as an antique. i wouldn't because there is no way to "prove the turks" , even though everyone knows that they are pre'99. i would never remove anything from my bound book as an antique, unless i wrote a letter to the ATF givng them the info, and get it in writing from them that it was OK to do so for that specific serial# rifle.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:58:20 AM EDT
Was the date not marked on the Turkish converted rifle as well, in Arabic script?

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:43:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 9:44:57 AM EDT by advntrjnky]


Was the date not marked on the Turkish converted rifle as well, in Arabic script?

the german markings were scrubbed, and the only date was when the final conversion was done by the turks (in the 30's IIRC, been over two years now).
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:50:56 AM EDT
The ATF mails BIG books full of regulations to FFL holders every year with all the laws and updates. It's all in there. Terry
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:54:01 PM EDT
You could just fill out the 4473. Ive never seen dealers charge for a transfer on a gun they are sellling. Besides, the government already knows you have guns:)
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:03:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CitizenKane:
You could just fill out the 4473. Ive never seen dealers charge for a transfer on a gun they are sellling. Besides, the government already knows you have guns:)

Dealers around here all charge $10-15 to run the background check through the NICS. Not sure how much it costs them to do, but I'll bet they make a buck or two doing it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:49:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:13:55 PM EDT
A NICS fee depends on the state. Most all FL dealers charge an FDLE call-in fee (even Wal Mart). Some dealers might eat that fee as a cost of doing business though.

Over the past years I've bought two C&R guns from dealers that wouldn't do a C&R transfer with my license. One was a CZ-50 pistol from a pawn shop. To their credit, they tried looking in the C&R list but because they didn't see that specific model and couldn't easily determine year of manufacture, they had me do the 4473 form and call-in.

The other was a Smith Corona 03A3 rifle from a local gunshop. This was a shop I'd bought from many times and the owner agreed the rifle was C&R eligible, but he still required the 4473 form and call-in.

I assume when you say "I would prefer to purchase it as an antique" you simply mean you wish to skip filling out the 4473 and the call-in (and fee if any). Make no mistake ... if he logged the rifle into his books, he will log it out of his books with the buyer's information, so a paper trail will be there regardless.

Although the regulations outline the criteria for how dealers can sell, I don't think the law requires them to use the easiest method that works for you. The same way some online dealers won't ship C&Rs directly to a C&R holder even though it's perfectly legal. Basically they get to choose the "cover your ass" level that works best for them.

IMHO, if your dealer hasn't already found a date or serial number lookup that proves the rifle is an antique, he's going to do it the safe way and it's just up to you if you want to go through the paperwork.

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