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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/13/2002 7:00:09 AM EDT
ship a rifle to another person (not FFL) INSIDE of my state. private transfers are legal in Virginia so why not this?

thanks
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 7:08:32 AM EDT
SkaerE,

Yes, it's perfectly legal--keep in mind though that you can only send LONG GUNS through the USPS, and any contact carrier shipping a pistol for you is probably going to demand that either you or the receiver has an FFL.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:48:39 AM EDT
Yes, but I wouldn't advise doing it.
If somehow the receiver turns out to be a felon and massacres 60 5th graders they will trace the firearm back to you the seller. Even though it is not illegal to send through the mail in your own state, court may find a way to let the jury believe you knew this guy was a felon. Selling a firearm to a felon that you know of is, or has intent to commit a crime is a felony.


From the BATFwww.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b10

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?


A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]



(B10) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?


Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm


Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:56:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flashbang1:
Yes, but I wouldn't advise doing it.
If somehow the receiver turns out to be a felon and massacres 60 5th graders they will trace the firearm back to you the seller. Even though it is not illegal to send through the mail in your own state, court may find a way to let the jury believe you knew this guy was a felon. Selling a firearm to a felon that you know of is, or has intent to commit a crime is a felony.


From the BATFwww.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b10

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?


A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]



(B10) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?


Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm








Keeping your yellow forms warm?
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 10:04:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Flashbang1:
Yes, but I wouldn't advise doing it.
If somehow the receiver turns out to be a felon and massacres 60 5th graders they will trace the firearm back to you the seller. Even though it is not illegal to send through the mail in your own state, court may find a way to let the jury believe you knew this guy was a felon. Selling a firearm to a felon that you know of is, or has intent to commit a crime is a felony.




HOWEVER, liability only extends to an FFL holder, so after reasonable investigation (asking him if he's a felon or intends to use this in a crime) you are safe and IF the gun is used in a crime, you'll only be responsible for prividing the name of the buyer.

You are within the boundaries of the law, so don't worry about it.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 10:13:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Minman72:

Originally Posted By Flashbang1:
Yes, but I wouldn't advise doing it.
If somehow the receiver turns out to be a felon and massacres 60 5th graders they will trace the firearm back to you the seller. Even though it is not illegal to send through the mail in your own state, court may find a way to let the jury believe you knew this guy was a felon. Selling a firearm to a felon that you know of is, or has intent to commit a crime is a felony.




HOWEVER, liability only extends to an FFL holder, so after reasonable investigation (asking him if he's a felon or intends to use this in a crime) you are safe and IF the gun is used in a crime, you'll only be responsible for prividing the name of the buyer.

You are within the boundaries of the law, so don't worry about it.



This seems like a good topic to clear up some of my ???

If I understand correctly..
I could advertise a rifle in the paper, have someone come and purchase it from my, I am not required to do anything but ask the person for his name without having to verify anything?

Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:15:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2002 11:22:54 AM EDT by Energizer]
Just because you are within the boundaries of the law, does not mean that the government will not make your life a living hell...

Always be cautious. If you can, send it to him registered mail, and get a signature on a letter stating he purchased it from you. If the buyer asks why, just tell him its to protect him and you, and to verify the mailman doesn't leave it on the doorstep! (this has happened) This will also prove that he now owns it, and that you have sold it. Have him make a copy of the letter before he sends it. You will also have a delivery receipt when he signs for the package. This signature should also match the one on the letter, but will also show that the package was delivered and that the person took posession of the firearm.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 11:30:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob243:
I could advertise a rifle in the paper, have someone come and purchase it from my, I am not required to do anything but ask the person for his name without having to verify anything?



Yes. This is that "gun-show" loophole that everyone is bitching about. Its a private-party sale, which is legal! --Which makes no sense why they claim this as a loophole at gun shows!

Even if they pass the gun-show loophole laws, in theory, one could go to a gun show, tell someone they have a gun for sale, then sell it to them elsewhere... Go figure. Totally legit.

If they pass the laws on "gun-show loopholes," next thing you know they will be after private-party sales... they keep taking a little at a time, demonizing little-by-little along the way-- enough to get laws passed, then they move on to the next....
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 2:08:28 PM EDT
Theres already private individuals requiring FFL's all accross the board to save their sorry @$$. I hate that!
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 4:36:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A3:

Keeping your yellow forms warm?



No. I am however a current C&R FFL and I am not required to use a 4473 or NICS and never will. I bought C&R rifles from misinformed C&R FFL's that insisted I fill it out when buying it in person.
The only requirement for a C&R FFL holder to do when buying C&R firearms out of state is enter the sellers info and firearms info into a "bound book".
Funny thing is, since a C&R FFL is not "actively engaged in the business" at the termination of my license I am not required to turn my "bound book" into the BATF. So why even keep one? (for BATF raid reasons)
Depending which BATF agent you talk to, some say every C&R firearm you acquire after you become a C&R FFL must enter the "bound book", no mater how you acquired it. Other agents have told me only C&R firearms acquired with the license (out of state mail order) must be entered.
They flip flop on the collection rules also. Some told me any firearm I acquire must stay in the collection for at least a year before I can sell it, otherwise I would be conducting an "actively engaged in the business" scenario and would need a Type 01 FFL.
Others told me I could acquire a C&R firearm and sell it immediately because I might not like what I received and that doesn't constitute "actively engaged in the business”.
One told me I could purchase a out of state C&R rifle with my FFL and keep it as a personal firearm as opposed to the collection, and would not be required to be entered into the "bound book".
One thing they all agreed on is during an inspection they must only inspect C&R related books and firearms nothing else. That means any other firearms must be tagged "personal", and for argument sake lets say I have a short barreled AR15 and a machine gun along side my M1 Garand. They cannot comment or take action on the finding. Reality dictates they will come up with a phony citizens inquiry about seeing machine guns leaving and entering my home and get a warrant and come back in ten minutes.

Point is cover yourself because if they want you, saying " but agent Joe Blow said I could" won't work and the green Federal Firearms Regulation book will make your head spin with contradictions. And that book is only a guideline to the 20K laws and regulations you don't even know exist.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 9:14:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob243:
If I understand correctly..
I could advertise a rifle in the paper, have someone come and purchase it from my, I am not required to do anything but ask the person for his name without having to verify anything?




Pretty much! Unless this guy's demeanor is screaming criminal, (don't all gun owners!?!?), then a reasonable person should not think twice about selling privately to an individual who has not given reason to wonder. If the guy showed up with a bloody shirt and a loaded mag, a REASONABLE person wouldn't sell to them. (Don't laugh, this happened to me at my old gun store.)

Until the gov says that all sales must be regulated, you are protected from prosecution. Civil suits are another mosquito I won't even dare to go into, but be aware that criminal procedings can be the least of your problems if your hypothetical docket is assigned to a evil liberal judge!

Oh yeah, Energizer is right, but the hell you'll encounter would be in the form of the before mentioned civil suit. Anything by the feds would be testimony at trial....unless this guy was screaming bloody murder and had horns.

An additional means of protecting your sale is to see if your local FFL dealer will transfer title for a small fee. I doubt a buyer would want this burden, especially because of the 15 day cooling off period. (For taking in used guns).

Anyway, the bottom line is that if you sell to a shady character, you'll have problems. Most people these days don't worry about this though, I guess I'm just ultra sensitive to all the case law I read about the average Joe getting bent over.
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