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Posted: 9/13/2009 7:53:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 7:56:08 AM EST by leo6223]
Another thread in the "team" forum got me thinking. Would it be legal to offer an 80% suppressor?

There is plenty of "fake cans" out there but I really don't know anything about them I was thinking what about someone making a fake can that was basically like a "80%" build?

I imagine it would be like the YHM products of "monolithic designs" in which the inner body was solid with just the bore drilled out (so it would really just be a muzzle/barrel extension). Thing is, the threads and getting a concentric bore are the hardest and most important part of the process. With that done you'd only need basic machine skills and either a drill press or mill machine.


Wonder how the "tech branch" over at ATF would respond.....after all, they practically consider a solid block of aluminum to be "readily convertable".

What do you think?

Think of the below only with a "solid core"



Link Posted: 9/13/2009 8:08:15 AM EST
I wouldn't even consider it. I know of a guy who sold something like that at gunshows in the 70's. He went to jail for a few years because of it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 8:09:57 AM EST
Home Depot sells 80% silencers, they are in the plumbing section and are called pipe.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 8:20:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 8:21:53 AM EST by cosmos556]
Silencer part = silencer

So even then, it'd have to be all around incomplete - the tube, baffles, everything. I guess it'd have to be closer to a 50% deal at best. I think you could legally sell solid blocks of aluminum as a silencer kit, but if you take into consideration "readily constructed" for the ATF requirements of 8 hours in a fully equipped machine shop, it'd still be illegal
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 9:08:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 9:12:29 AM EST by bloodsport2885]
In order for it to be 80% it would require machining to finish. With the simplicity of a suppressor why bother if you have a lathe? Not to mention the hard part (baffles) are considered a suppressor themselves and the body is a simple threaded tube. Never going to happen.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 9:36:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Silencer part = silencer

So even then, it'd have to be all around incomplete - the tube, baffles, everything. I guess it'd have to be closer to a 50% deal at best. I think you could legally sell solid blocks of aluminum as a silencer kit, but if you take into consideration "readily constructed" for the ATF requirements of 8 hours in a fully equipped machine shop, it'd still be illegal


What are the "fake cans" then? (other than round objects of silicon....ba-dum-ssshhhhh )

Plenty of places sell "fake cans".......this is no different other than having a solid core that threads in.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 11:07:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Silencer part = silencer

So even then, it'd have to be all around incomplete - the tube, baffles, everything. I guess it'd have to be closer to a 50% deal at best. I think you could legally sell solid blocks of aluminum as a silencer kit, but if you take into consideration "readily constructed" for the ATF requirements of 8 hours in a fully equipped machine shop, it'd still be illegal


What are the "fake cans" then? (other than round objects of silicon....ba-dum-ssshhhhh )

Plenty of places sell "fake cans".......this is no different other than having a solid core that threads in.


Most fake cans slip over the barrel with no gasses venting into the chamber of the fake can. Any device that can or does reduce the report of the weapon in considered a silencer in the ATFs eyes.

Wes

Link Posted: 9/13/2009 11:39:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 11:39:42 AM EST by mjohn3006]
Originally Posted By SETXshooter:
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Silencer part = silencer

So even then, it'd have to be all around incomplete - the tube, baffles, everything. I guess it'd have to be closer to a 50% deal at best. I think you could legally sell solid blocks of aluminum as a silencer kit, but if you take into consideration "readily constructed" for the ATF requirements of 8 hours in a fully equipped machine shop, it'd still be illegal


What are the "fake cans" then? (other than round objects of silicon....ba-dum-ssshhhhh )

Plenty of places sell "fake cans".......this is no different other than having a solid core that threads in.


Most fake cans slip over the barrel with no gasses venting into the chamber of the fake can. Any device that can or does reduce the report of the weapon in considered a silencer in the ATFs eyes.

Wes



Some are. The rest are exactly what the OP is suggesting. A silencer with a solid center, just a hole drilled down the center for the bullet to come out of.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 11:52:34 AM EST
Considering that ATF now considers ANY part of a silencer the same as a silencer, I think it would be exceptionally difficult to make this kind of product and stay legal. EVERY PART would have to be non-functional by their definition.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 3:42:40 PM EST
There is no 80% rule for silencers...
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 4:00:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Considering that ATF now considers ANY part of a silencer the same as a silencer, I think it would be exceptionally difficult to make this kind of product and stay legal. EVERY PART would have to be non-functional by their definition.


Which is bullshit and someone needs to call them out on this.

The "shell with a solid core" could in no way be considered a suppressor......otherwise you'd have to consider any muzzle break a suppressor since I could theoretically make a "sleeve" to go over it and produce a suppressor.


THe ATF are a bunch of ....................nevermind
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 4:05:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Considering that ATF now considers ANY part of a silencer the same as a silencer, I think it would be exceptionally difficult to make this kind of product and stay legal. EVERY PART would have to be non-functional by their definition.


Which is bullshit and someone needs to call them out on this.


It is not the ATF, it is the law.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 2:56:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 3:27:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Shizzlemah:
There is no 80% rule for silencers...

There's no special rule for guns either, it's either a gun or it's not, 80% is just short-hand for really really close to a gun, but not. It's not a technical term.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 1:57:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Considering that ATF now considers ANY part of a silencer the same as a silencer, I think it would be exceptionally difficult to make this kind of product and stay legal. EVERY PART would have to be non-functional by their definition.


Which is bullshit and someone needs to call them out on this.


It is not the ATF, it is the law.


Bullshit....show it to me. The ATF is the only LE agency (and I use that term loosely....they shouldn't be LE) that gets to interpret the law how THEY decide. The rest must obey the strict language and the Courts for interpretation. A piece of metal by itself is NOT a silencer.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 2:14:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Considering that ATF now considers ANY part of a silencer the same as a silencer, I think it would be exceptionally difficult to make this kind of product and stay legal. EVERY PART would have to be non-functional by their definition.


Which is bullshit and someone needs to call them out on this.


It is not the ATF, it is the law.


Bullshit....show it to me. The ATF is the only LE agency (and I use that term loosely....they shouldn't be LE) that gets to interpret the law how THEY decide. The rest must obey the strict language and the Courts for interpretation. A piece of metal by itself is NOT a silencer.


Look it up for yourself.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 2:28:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 2:29:02 PM EST by Kharn]
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Bullshit....show it to me. The ATF is the only LE agency (and I use that term loosely....they shouldn't be LE) that gets to interpret the law how THEY decide. The rest must obey the strict language and the Courts for interpretation. A piece of metal by itself is NOT a silencer.
Title 18, Section 921(a)(24):
(24) The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
If its intended for use in a silencer, it requires registration.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 4:34:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I wouldn't even consider it. I know of a guy who sold something like that at gunshows in the 70's. He went to jail for a few years because of it.



I remember seeing these when I was a kid. I think they were called Suppress-On or something like that. All you had to do was drill holes in the end caps.

Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:12:14 PM EST
I think a "golfball launcher" would be the closest thing to a suppressor you can get without breaking the law.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:34:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I think a "golfball launcher" would be the closest thing to a suppressor you can get without breaking the law.


whats the real use for the golf ball launcher, do people really shoot golf balls, and why
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 6:01:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mikegigabyte:
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I think a "golfball launcher" would be the closest thing to a suppressor you can get without breaking the law.


whats the real use for the golf ball launcher, do people really shoot golf balls, and why


I have always wondered that also........
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 6:08:13 PM EST
I thought it was a secret way to make a destructive device, and only the elite ones know that, I just keep seeing those everywhere so either someone mad a shit load of those for something else and got in trouble or they are really for shooting golf balls. I like to think its a cheap type of grenade launcher for some type of grenade.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 6:39:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mikegigabyte:
I thought it was a secret way to make a destructive device, and only the elite ones know that, I just keep seeing those everywhere so either someone mad a shit load of those for something else and got in trouble or they are really for shooting golf balls. I like to think its a cheap type of grenade launcher for some type of grenade.


That's kind of what I was thinking.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 10:26:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By leo6223:
Bullshit....show it to me. The ATF is the only LE agency (and I use that term loosely....they shouldn't be LE) that gets to interpret the law how THEY decide. The rest must obey the strict language and the Courts for interpretation. A piece of metal by itself is NOT a silencer.


Why don't you start by Googling "Administrative Law"? You'll find that ALL enforcement agencies promulgate regulations into the Code of Federal regulations, which have the force of law. (assuming they are not in conflict with the underlying statute).
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 11:03:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By Mikegigabyte:
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I think a "golfball launcher" would be the closest thing to a suppressor you can get without breaking the law.


whats the real use for the golf ball launcher, do people really shoot golf balls, and why


I have always wondered that also........


Uh...I use mine to shoot golf balls. Its fun.

Not every gun accessory makes you an awesome killing machine. Some are just silly, which is why I got mine.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 1:48:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By 223Sauce:
Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By Mikegigabyte:
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I think a "golfball launcher" would be the closest thing to a suppressor you can get without breaking the law.


whats the real use for the golf ball launcher, do people really shoot golf balls, and why


I have always wondered that also........


Uh...I use mine to shoot golf balls. Its fun.

Not every gun accessory makes you an awesome killing machine. Some are just silly, which is why I got mine.


do you retrieve the balls, to you play a game with them? I just cant see any use for it, except to shoot balls very far. I thought maybe there is a real use for it.
How far do they go ....700 yards?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 1:54:40 PM EST
Satisfied golf ball launcher user here

Some of the good ones go about 200-300 meters with M200 (5.56mm) blanks. At about 100 meters, they have enough force to tear through one of the heavier aluminum "House for Sale" signs like it's tissue paper

I don't know how to explain they're fun other than... well, they're fun. It's just kinda giddy to launch those SOBs across a field. We've even setup a "hole" at my parent's farm and start a couple hundred yards out. It makes life interesting, as they have a tendency to wobble or yaw. Every now and again you get a good one that just snugs in nice and tight and rockets outta there. It really is the most fun I've had in years with shooting. It will ruin your golfballs, though - there's a small burn from the blank on the ball after each shot.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 1:57:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2009 1:58:08 PM EST by mjohn3006]
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Satisfied golf ball launcher user here

Some of the good ones go about 200-300 meters with M200 (5.56mm) blanks. At about 100 meters, they have enough force to tear through one of the heavier aluminum "House for Sale" signs like it's tissue paper

I don't know how to explain they're fun other than... well, they're fun. It's just kinda giddy to launch those SOBs across a field. We've even setup a "hole" at my parent's farm and start a couple hundred yards out. It makes life interesting, as they have a tendency to wobble or yaw. Every now and again you get a good one that just snugs in nice and tight and rockets outta there. It really is the most fun I've had in years with shooting. It will ruin your golfballs, though - there's a small burn from the blank on the ball after each shot.


Real fun would be if you could find a course that would let you play 18 with it.

What kind of driver to you have?
Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 2:51:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By imq707s:
Originally Posted By Mikegigabyte:
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I think a "golfball launcher" would be the closest thing to a suppressor you can get without breaking the law.


whats the real use for the golf ball launcher, do people really shoot golf balls, and why


I have always wondered that also........


I had one. It was fun as hell. I got rid of it once I got bored.

it's just cool as hell - put a 5 gallon bucket out 500 yards, you mark a dozen balls, the other guy marks a dozen, and shoot for score.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 9:59:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I think a "golfball launcher" would be the closest thing to a suppressor you can get without breaking the law.


If you get caught using a Golf Ball Launcher for something other than launching Golf Balls - well - You could be prosecuted for not adhereing to the law.

Perhaps even as a MUZZLE BRAKE - as that is NOT the intended purpose of the device.

On a parallel is Tannerite - yes it energetically reacts when struck with a bullet, to be used for target practice (to identify when the target is struck) - that is its purpose. Place tannerite in ANY other object and shoot it - that is NOT the legal intended purpose and you are getting into interpetive law & subject to criminal prosecution to determine GUILT or INNOCENCE. (Destructive Device).

ATF Letter on Golf Ball Launcher Pay special intention to the red arrow section.


Me: I'd rather whack golf balls with a club, than clean the blank residue out of an AR... But that's just me. YMMV.

-Will
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