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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 1/25/2002 10:29:27 AM EDT
My brother and I have been looking around at .308 bolt guns to be set up like varmint/countersniper/ bench guns for long range shooting and very few have detachable mags. I would prefer this to make loading simpler since the rifle will clearly have a large scope in place and for convienence. Do the the manufactures leave this off because they feel it compromises the strength and rigidity of the rifle or is it to save money? What do you knowledgeble people think about the importance of having or not having this feature? We have looked at Whetherby's, Ruger, Browning, and especially Savage as they fit our price range best currently. Also could I get basically equal accuracy with an AR10 Target model from Armalite?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 10:31:08 AM EDT
Robar makes 'em. they have a website also, cant remember the URL
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 10:32:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By slidelock1:
My brother and I have been looking around at .308 bolt guns to be set up like varmint/countersniper/ bench guns for long range shooting and very few have detachable mags. I would prefer this to make loading simpler since the rifle will clearly have a large scope in place and for convienence. Do the the manufactures leave this off because they feel it compromises the strength and rigidity of the rifle or is it to save money? What do you knowledgeble people think about the importance of having or not having this feature? We have looked at Whetherby's, Ruger, Browning, and especially Savage as they fit our price range best currently. Also could I get basically equal accuracy with an AR10 Target model from Armalite?



If you can find an Enfield in unusually good condition, it might be worth considering. They have quick action, 10rd magazines, and are relatively accurate.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 10:35:42 AM EDT
www.robarguns.com
bada$$ rifles there
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 10:45:06 AM EDT
www.robarguns.com/qr2.asp

Also, check out the one for sale right here on our own EE!!!

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=86357
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 11:02:15 AM EDT
Clearly you guys missed where I said I had been looking at a Savage. Robar is off the price scale for me and really more than I need. Someone suggested finding a good deal on a slightly used REM ADL or BDL 700 and have it rebarrelled and stocked. Said I could probably do this for under 800/00.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 11:16:07 AM EDT
I had the same feelings and wound up buying a Remingtom M700 700 VSSF in .308. I shoot it off the bench and have found myself never using the internal box at all, as a matter of fact I am going to order from Sinclair the SINGLE SHOT mag follower for it. In the quest for accuracy, I have become a friend of patience, and patience teaches me to consider each shot as my first. I like laying one roung in the port with out having to push it down and under the lips etc, and then closing the bolt, and bang. To answer your question, I don't think not having a semi-auto or detatachable mag a big deal. When you consider the cost of an Armalite AR10-T, and you could almost buy both the Remington police PSS in long and short barrel bolt guns, and you wouldn't need any of the $85 mags. BTW here is a really easy way to adjust the Remington trigger.
http://www.snipercountry.com/RemingtonTriggers.htm
I followed some 500 or 600 rounds ago. My trigger is 1.75 lbs and crisp with no measurable take-up. Only groups under moa are intresting.

Good luck
Bill
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 11:16:54 AM EDT
I had the same feelings and wound up buying a Remingtom M700 VSSF in .308. I shoot it off the bench and have found myself never using the internal box at all, as a matter of fact I am going to order from Sinclair the SINGLE SHOT mag follower for it. In the quest for accuracy, I have become a friend of patience, and patience teaches me to consider each shot as my first. I like laying one roung in the port with out having to push it down and under the lips etc, and then closing the bolt, and bang. To answer your question, I don't think not having a semi-auto or detatachable mag a big deal. When you consider the cost of an Armalite AR10-T, and you could almost buy both the Remington police PSS in long and short barrel bolt guns, and you wouldn't need any of the $85 mags. BTW here is a really easy way to adjust the Remington trigger.
http://www.snipercountry.com/RemingtonTriggers.htm
I followed some 500 or 600 rounds ago. My trigger is 1.75 lbs and crisp with no measurable take-up. Only groups under moa are intresting.

Good luck
Bill
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 12:58:32 PM EDT
i thought rem made a 700bdl with a detachable mag? i don't like the looks of it on a bolt action myself. if i want a magazine i'll use my AR or AK. my 22mag has a magazine and it just gets in the way, i'd like it to be just smooth there.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:58:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 6:05:12 PM EDT
I have a Savage .308 "Scout" and deer hunt with it. After walking out of the woods it is nice to drop the mag and jack the last one out, and be done. A hunter might do this twice a day for several days during a long weekend hunt. If you had to chamber each round every time you wanted to unload your gun the rounds would get pretty beat up after a while, possibly affecting accuracy. Plus it is just plain safer.

-elliott
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 8:07:56 PM EDT
I just acquired a .308 Tikka. It has a 3 round detachable mag with a 5 round optional. You don't want to buy too many though, the cheapest price on a three round is $41. They go up from there.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 8:12:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slidelock1:
Clearly you guys missed where I said I had been looking at a Savage. Robar is off the price scale for me and really more than I need. Someone suggested finding a good deal on a slightly used REM ADL or BDL 700 and have it rebarrelled and stocked. Said I could probably do this for under 800/00.



Yeah I did miss the savage thing.

As I was saying maybe a low-end Sako TRG-41 in .338 Laupa - detachable mag.

Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:19:14 PM EDT
If you can find one, the Remington 788 is a very inexpensive and accurate rifle. It also has a detachable magazine.

coyote3
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:36:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 9:38:02 PM EDT by 7IDL]

Originally Posted By Spearweasel:
If you can find an Enfield in unusually good condition, it might be worth considering. They have quick action, 10rd magazines, and are relatively accurate.





No4Mk2 top
No1Mk3* bottom
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:47:31 PM EDT
I'm kind of partial to detachable mags. I guess I've kind of gotten used to it on my STEYR/McMillan SSG. With a big, low mounted scope it does make loading and unloading a lot easier.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 11:22:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 11:24:51 PM EDT by 199]
I personally prefer a detachable magazine.

Traditionally, most hunting rifles have an internal magazine since, unlike a detachable one, it can’t be lost. Lose your magazine while you’re out in the field and your rifle becomes a slow loading single shot.

However, detachable magazines are certainly becoming more popular.

I don’t think there’s an accuracy issue. Granted, a rifle with an internal magazine is probably a little more rugged and a little cheaper to make.

I intensely dislike a blind magazine where rounds have to be cycled through the chamber to unload. However, an internal magazine with a hinged floorplate isn’t too bad. It allows you to unload the magazine without cycling the rounds through the rifle.

Unless the scope is really low, it shouldn’t greatly interfere with loading an internal magazine. Keep in mind that current Army and Marine bolt sniper rifles have internal magazines, as do most police sniper rifles.

For the use you describe, either detachable or internal should work just fine.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 12:44:49 PM EDT
The Browning should have a detachable mag, not like traditional mags. When you push the little button on the front of the trigger guard and release the floor plate, the mag clips onto the floor plate they do not insert from the bottom as traditional mags do. Makes unloading the rifle a little more manageable, as you don't have to cycle all the rounds through the action, nor do you have to worry about them going everywhere when you release the floor plate.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 1:19:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 3:33:15 PM EDT
Can you make it take unmodified M14 mags? That would be great!

-elliott
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 3:39:22 PM EDT
hmmm FAL magazines, @ ~$5-10/ea would be better
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 4:13:17 PM EDT
Brownells carries (at least I think they still do) a kit for converting a 700 BDL to DM. Great thing about Rem. is that their triggers are fully adjustable. Tweaked mine with no problems and is now light (mabey a little too much so) and crisp. Highly recomend them. I dont think I would go the DM route though IMHO. I have a 50mm objective and can still load without hassle.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 7:25:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By coyote3:
If you can find one, the Remington 788 is a very inexpensive and accurate rifle. It also has a detachable magazine.

coyote3



I bought one today 3 mags, .223 cal., NBF condition. $340 tax incl.
GG
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 7:33:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 7:38:16 PM EDT
My understanding is that most bolt-action rifles are generally designed with hunting in mind, and most states don't allow hunting with more than five rounds in the magazine, so an internal five round magazine is considered to be the correct way to make such a rifle. It certainly does make for a clean appearance, too.

I've wondered (but never investigated) if there are any bolt action rifles that can accept a detachable magazine if you remove the floorplate. Does anybody know if there are any?

I think I already know the answer to this one but I'll ask it anyway: Does the hi-cap magazine ban apply to bolt action rifles?
(I'm guessing it does...)

I prefer my guns black and parkerized instead of blued steel with a walnut stock, but I must admit I'd love to have a nice Winchester Model 70 in 308, or possibly a fine Weatherby.

CJ

Link Posted: 1/26/2002 7:44:54 PM EDT
Bolt guns are not supposed to have DM's. I thought that was common knowledge. If I am hunting I am enjoying myself and at the end of the day it may take a little longer to unload a gun with a blind magazine but so what. I like the hinged floor plate just fine also. No DM on any of my bolt guns(that I'll admit to).
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 8:13:16 PM EDT
check out the CZ 550 varmit rifle 308 heavy barrel sat trigger its a very good value rifle
from a solid company. and it has detachable mag that is flush with the stock but it only holds 4 rounds
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 6:42:33 AM EDT
I have a Remington 700 BDL SS with the detachable magazine. I find it very convenient and have had no problems whatsoever.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 7:32:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2002 12:41:51 PM EDT by Minman72]
Maybe some people don't read too well, but it doesn't sound like you're building a hunting rifle, which in that case, on your budget I think you should skim every web page like gunbroker.com, auction arms, and especially gunsamerica.com where I picked this up for $800 including a $150 weaver base which throws this thing way over the scale! Its a Remington 40XC in 308 and can take stripper clips, as long as you're using sights, no scope. The deals are definately out there, just be patient and you'll be happy. If you don't have patience, look for a Rem Police model in 308 with a DM, my Police in 223 shoots easy 1/4" groups @ 100, so I know that they won't disappoint!

www.geocities.com/balzac72/Rem40xc.jpg



Link Posted: 1/27/2002 8:47:14 AM EDT
What about the Rem 710?? It looks to be a great gun and the retail is only $425 with a scope! Does anyone have any input on this? I want to get into a good long range rifle, but can't afford the costs for a "sniper type" rifle. This may fit the bill when I get around to that project. I wanted a .308 but I guess .30-06 will work for now.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 11:20:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 12:58:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Dragon:
What about the Rem 710?? It looks to be a great gun and the retail is only $425 with a scope! Does anyone have any input on this? I want to get into a good long range rifle, but can't afford the costs for a "sniper type" rifle. This may fit the bill when I get around to that project. I wanted a .308 but I guess .30-06 will work for now.



Start off with a remington 700 at the very least, preferably a BDL action. Then build as the funds become available. Maybe just save up a little more and get the savage heavy barrel rifle, I hear they are great shooters and not much more than your price range.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 1:31:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Minman72:

Originally Posted By Red_Dragon:
What about the Rem 710?? It looks to be a great gun and the retail is only $425 with a scope! Does anyone have any input on this? I want to get into a good long range rifle, but can't afford the costs for a "sniper type" rifle. This may fit the bill when I get around to that project. I wanted a .308 but I guess .30-06 will work for now.



Start off with a remington 700 at the very least, preferably a BDL action. Then build as the funds become available. Maybe just save up a little more and get the savage heavy barrel rifle, I hear they are great shooters and not much more than your price range.



Well, the 710 retails for $425 and the 700VS retails for $759. That's not too close to me. Granted, you can buy it for less than reatil, but that means the 710 will be $300+ and the 700VS will be $600+?? Does anyone have any experience with the 710?? I know the 700 is a great gun, but it's not the end all, be all of bolt action guns! Sorry not trying to be stubborn or stupid, but the 710 is new and seems to be a state of the art gun. Go to the Remmy website and read up on it and read the review from American rifleman. Sounds like a great gun and a great price to me!
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 1:35:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2002 1:38:06 PM EDT by Red_Dragon]
And to get back on the subject it has a detachable mag (4 rounder) to go with. (For the Rem 710 that is!) Plus it comes with a scope and scope mount (which you can always upgrade later).


Edited to fix stuff!!
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 2:24:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Dragon:]

... the 710 is new and seems to be a state of the art gun. ...


Kinda disagree. The 710 isn’t state of the art – it’s a disposable rifle designed to compete with the Savage.

The barrel and receiver are one piece. Once the barrel is worn out, you throw the rifle away.

Based on what I’ve seen, the Savage is a better rifle in pretty much the same price range.

That being said, I don’t see Remington putting their name on junk. Get it if you like it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 2:28:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2002 2:31:25 PM EDT by Minman72]

Originally Posted By Red_Dragon:

Originally Posted By Minman72:
Start off with a remington 700 at the very least, preferably a BDL action. Then build as the funds become available. Maybe just save up a little more and get the savage heavy barrel rifle, I hear they are great shooters and not much more than your price range.



Well, the 710 retails for $425 and the 700VS retails for $759. That's not too close to me. Granted, you can buy it for less than reatil, but that means the 710 will be $300+ and the 700VS will be $600+?? Does anyone have any experience with the 710?? I know the 700 is a great gun, but it's not the end all, be all of bolt action guns! Sorry not trying to be stubborn or stupid, but the 710 is new and seems to be a state of the art gun. Go to the Remmy website and read up on it and read the review from American rifleman. Sounds like a great gun and a great price to me!



I only said a 700, not a PSS, VSS, VSSF or any of the more expensive guns. A 700 in 308 can be had from 325-550 depending on its configuration and newness. Anyway, my gun posted is proof that waiting is the best policy when on a budget. Also look at the Savage heavy barreled guns, you can afford one of them with ease!

Edited to add this example:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=2281896
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 3:34:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 3:41:49 PM EDT
I am in & out of vehicles a lot when I hunt, so I love a detchable mag. I went with a M1A. But my Enfield .308 is pretty nice too.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 3:44:04 PM EDT
I'll have to look into the savage then. I want something that will last. What about the Ruger 77s?? They were all over at the gun show and looked nice, but ????

What is a good savage model to look at??
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 4:15:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Dragon:
I'll have to look into the savage then. I want something that will last. What about the Ruger 77s?? They were all over at the gun show and looked nice, but ????

What is a good savage model to look at??



10FP or 12BVSS in the caliber that will work for you. Both come in .308 and .223. Excellent rifles that shoot out of the box. Blackhills 52gr was a consistent .6-.7 shooter out of my 12 if you don't handload. I didn't find the accuracy potential of my Savage till I started handloading. You can accessorize for the Savage with triggers and stocks.

Buy the Savage and use the rest of the cash for good glass.
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 4:25:08 PM EDT
if you get a remmington 700 HS precision makes a detachable bax mag floor plate available through brownells it has an optional 10 round mag available from the hs precision web site.
john
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 4:49:49 PM EDT
www.remingtonle.com/rifle/700p.htm

You don't have to look very hard to find
some of these with a detachable mag (DM)

These are out there & available.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 8:55:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hondajohn:
if you get a remmington 700 HS precision makes a detachable bax mag floor plate available through brownells it has an optional 10 round mag available from the hs precision web site.
john


Unfortunately, those detachable magazines are kind of pricey. See: www.hsprecision.com/price_list_accessories.htm
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:36:04 AM EDT
CDNN Investments has Steyr Mountain Rifles at Dealer Cost of $528. I have one in .270 and it's the best value out there. The trigger pull is exceptional along with the accuracy. It has a detachable mag.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 9:56:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By slidelock1:
My brother and I have been looking around at .308 bolt guns to be set up like varmint/countersniper/ bench guns for long range shooting and very few have detachable mags. I would prefer this to make loading simpler since the rifle will clearly have a large scope in place and for convienence. Do the the manufactures leave this off because they feel it compromises the strength and rigidity of the rifle or is it to save money? What do you knowledgeble people think about the importance of having or not having this feature? We have looked at Whetherby's, Ruger, Browning, and especially Savage as they fit our price range best currently. Also could I get basically equal accuracy with an AR10 Target model from Armalite?



So, why not a Remington 700 BDL DM? I bought mine in .260 Remington but it comes in .308 and most other popular calibers.

Having a detachable magazine IS one more thing to lose, of course, and the internal mag models are cheaper, and the stock is more rigid without that big hole.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 10:18:22 AM EDT
With all that said, you really should look long and hard at the Savage rifles, especially the 112. The Ruger M77's are nice, but i'd only get the heavy barrel with that wierd stainless finish that doesn't match any scope in existance. Its accuracy is hit and miss also, so that brings you back to the Savage rifle again for the $$$. Stay away from the 710, it definately is not a technologically advanced gun, unless you look at the fact that Remington has the technology to make a cheap rifle appealable to once a year hunters. If you're looking to build something into a sniper rifle (or even start out with one), look at the 700's and 112's. I've never had a Remington shoot over 1.5" with factory loads. In fact my 223 police eats up 40gr Rem HP's (discontinued) giving me a best group of less than a 1/4". I've still got the target, I'm probably going to frame it! Good luck with your choice, you are the one that ends up living with it, so see what fits you best.
Greg
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 10:18:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By slidelock1:
My brother and I have been looking around at .308 bolt guns to be set up like varmint/countersniper/ bench guns for long range shooting and very few have detachable mags. I would prefer this to make loading simpler since the rifle will clearly have a large scope in place and for convienence.



Detachable mags are more useful to change loads (ie. go from a 55 gr. to 75 gr. or go from match to AP for military applications). Aside from that, convenience plays a far second.

If you go in the field, DMs present their own unique set of problems:

1. mags can be lost
2. feed lips can be bent/cracked
3. dirt or sand can affect mag function
4. mags can drop out if not seated firmly (ever try to get a fully loaded 10 round mag to seat properly in a bolt gun?)



Originally Posted By slidelock1:
Do the the manufactures leave this off because they feel it compromises the strength and rigidity of the rifle or is it to save money?



It compromises function, if anything. A DM does not affect receiver strength. It is my understanding that Remington did away with the 700 PSS-DM because of function problems.



Originally Posted By slidelock1:
What do you knowledgeble people think about the importance of having or not having this feature?



If the rifle will be used as a varmint gun, I think a DM is a liability. Do you really need to load that fast?

If the rifle will be used in a police-type application, a DM may have an advantage in being able to change loads quickly. You're more than likely in an urban environment and not a gravel streambed, you've had ample time to set up, and you're not in a position to bend/crack/damage the feed lips.

Overall, it's my opinion that a floorplate that swings out is more functional than a DM.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 11:20:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FNC80:
Overall, it's my opinion that a floorplate that swings out is more functional than a DM.



I couldn't have said it better! There are the exceptions like the previously posted Accuracy International system, which is price prohibitive since the stock alone is the price of a Remington 700 PSS (with DM). Not to mention, a gun with a floor plate just looks puuurtier! I'd never stick an M-14 mag in my 40xc! UGH!
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