Last night I was loading some 38 special wad cutters. These were once fired out of my gp100. S&B brass. Projectiles are xtreme 148gr wad cutter. At first they were loading pretty easy. Then I notice a few were fighting me going into the case. So I tried a couple of the ones that gave me trouble in the gun itself. They wouldn't go into the cylinder all the way. Like maybe half way then I could feel some pretty good resistence in the cylinder like the bullet was oversized. There was a pretty pronounced bulge in the brass, a little more than the ones that fit fine. I tried sizing about 10 of the projectiles I had left and they seemed to be the same size. Out of 50 that I loaded 40 of them went into and out of the cylinder no problem. On the ones that didn't it almost looked like the bullet was flattened. I don't know what to attribute it to. I have loaded these same projectile before and never had this issue. I even pulled some that I had loaded last week in some Winchester brass and checked them. Of the 10 I checked all but one fell into the cylinder easily and the one that didn't only had minor resistence at the very bottom. Looking for thoughts on what the problem could be. Is s&b brass any good? I don't think its my dies as I have 250 rounds loaded last week and no issues then. Any help would be great.

The ones that won't fit very likely did not seat straight. You need a good bell mouth and the seater plug that is flat.

You could run the ones that don't fit in a Lee FCD and it will make them fit but it "may" size the bullet down inside the case but I would still go that rout instead of pulling them. There is a good chance they will still shoot good.

Either way you need to fix your seating issues.

Motor

I have the same issues loading .38 special. I think it is a combination of the .358 cast bullets and some cases having a thicker wall. It is aggravating as the WC bullets are super accurate in my revolver. I have "fixed" the issue by running them partially into the sizing die.

Military and +p brass is thicker

Weigh them version r-p

I couldn't imagine running a loaded cartridge back into a size die to "fix" it. The only time I ever did this was by mistake resulting in scrap.

I have found it necessary to size my cast bullet for .38/357 to .358" to get them to fit my revolves. A proper crimp is also important. Proper meaning done correctly without causing any bulge in the case.

If you are having problems getting your rounds to fit the cylinder the Lee FCD with its post sizing ring is much better than any other"fix". Other than preventing it of course.

You can use the FCD without using its crimp function. But you can't crimp with it without using its post sizing feature.

Motor

What it the difference between FCD's sizing feature and a sizing die?

The FCD post sizing ring is only small enough to size a loaded cartridge down enough to fit a minimum spec chamber or as with a revolver the cylinder "charge hole" as it's sometimes called.

The size die sizes the case down much smaller. This is why you need the expander to open it back up before seating a bullet. The expander not only bell mouths the case but also expands the area where the bullet is to be seated so that it has the proper amount of neck tension.

If you seat a cast bullet or lead core jacketed bullet or any other type for that matter into the case then run that case into a size die it will crush the bullet within the case. The brass case will spring back ever so slightly but the bullet will not. The result is a total loss of neck tension. You will be able to spin the bullet in the case with your fingers. Or move it in or out without much force.

Just look at any straight wall pistol ammo including ones that taper slightly like the 9mm auto. You can easily see that the area where the bullet is in the case is significantly larger in diameter than the rest of the case. Then imagine crushing that all down like when the case comes out of the size die and what happens to the bullet if you did.

Motor

This is where theory and actuality depart. The cases I resized still have significant grip on the bullet. Enough that it takes three good whacks from an inertia puller to extract them. That and the fact that examining rounds in the cylinder that have experienced recoil shows no bullet movement.

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to the thread. I'll try to answer some questions.
Dryflash....I am seating and crimping on the same die. Dies are a lee 3 die set. I do have the trimmer for .38 special with it as I bought the dies used and never thought to trim. I did measure some of the brass and it was a couple thousandths over length. As I am shooting them out of a revolver I didn't think it would make that much difference.


If cases are the same length, the crimp will be the same for all cases. Overlength cases will be over crimped if your seat/crimp die is set to seat/crimp in spec cases.








I have a vision of having to knock the brass out of the cylinder with a rod because of the tightness. Am I correct in thinking this? No.


 

eta, I meant to quote this post, instead I hit the edit button by accident. My answers in blue. dryflash3

Not usually.  They are only tight because of the bullet. Once you fire them they should extract as normal.

I don't load full wadd cutters but understand how their seating depth could cause some problems.

If you can get them into cylinder then shoot them. If not I would use the FCD to make them fit before going through the hassle of pulling them. Besides I think if you pulled them the bullets would probably be junk unless they are not your typical swaged soft lead wadd cutters.

Motor

TZ250. This is not theory. Its simple math. I don't know exactly what you are doing but if you run loaded ammo into a size die you will ruin it.

That's a simple fact. I'm really shocked no one else has commented on this. It may not be able to overcome a roll crimp but then only the crimp will be holding the bullet and that is not what the crimp is for. The crimp's function is to restrict fore and aft movement. Neck tension does everything else.

Motor

You quoted theory. I stated facts. The rounds were only inserted 1/3 of the case length into the die. Fact. The bullets were not loose in the cases. You are making claims on assumptions about my components and processes. I am stating facts about results. I'm a master CNC machinist with nearly two decades in the game. I know what precision measurement and working with metal is. I do it every day for a living. Stop making assumptions about the state of my loaded ammunition.

Until you have your own solid data under the exact same circumstances that I'm working under your posts about my ammunition are merely a wild ass guess.

Since you seem to adore the word simple,

It's that simple.

Get a Lyman M die, forget flaring. This will keep the bullet square on the case. You need to POST crimp. The FCD or taper crimp. This will solve your problems.

I am a master machinist  with a degree in tool and die making with 28 years experience. I've also worked in quality control.

If you run loaded ammo into your size die past the point where the bullet is seated you will size the od of the case down to the diameter it was before expanding the neck and seating the bullet.

What happens then to the bullet?  It becomes much smaller than it was.

Apparently you are going deep enough to fix some type of crimping problem. If that works for you great. The FCD would be a much better way of doing it. Getting the process done so they don't need fixed would be the best way.

The inside diameter of a 38/357 size die is approximately .373  The case walls are approximately .010" After running your loaded round back into the size die however much of the bullet you ran into it is now .353" in diameter.

The inside diameter of the Lee FCD is approximately .377" so when you use it your bullet is still at least approximately .357"

Motor

I will agree with what you have said. This has been a problem that just surfaced with this batch of bullets I bought which measured 358. The pulled bullets measure .355. I have no desire to purchase a FCD as I will make sure my next bullets are .357. I never meant to imply that what I did was a desirable process. It was a fix for a bad situation that worked for me.

I also ran into problems when I first started casting my own bullets for the revolves. It seems most semiautomatic pistols have generously sized chambers. I never need to size my bullets for them. But the revolves are totally different. I now size my cast bullets with a .358" size die. Some still do fit tight.

It's not normally recommended to use the FCD with cast or plated bullets because it will reduce bullet diameter but many people find that it's not enough to degrade accuracy or cause leading but it could depending on barrel size.

Most of the time you want your cast bullets to be at least .001" over groove diameter but if .357" work good for you then that's all that matters.

The FCD is relatively inexpensive and comes in handy at times even if you only use it for post sizing.

Motor