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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/18/2012 8:22:37 PM EST
So, I picked up a H&R Handi rifle in .357 magum and will be thinking about putting a can on it.

the barrel right now is 22 inches and will be thinking about having it cut and threaded down to 17 inches - what can will work best.

I've seen others mention that they shoot them with 38 spcl as many of the cans are not rated for full power .357 magnum loads - would I be better off with a .308 type can for full power .357 loads

also, would it greatly affect things if I decided to have the barrel cut down even farther and sbr this rifle.

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 9:12:19 PM EST
308 can wont work
i'd look for a 9mm can that is full auto rated. ( i have read of people using the Navy 9 & Liberty Mystic on 357 rifles)


also, if you plan on shooting lead...you'd need to find a user serviceable model (Liberty Mystic)
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 10:57:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By d13s3l:
308 can wont work
i'd look for a 9mm can that is full auto rated. ( i have read of people using the Navy 9 & Liberty Mystic on 357 rifles)


also, if you plan on shooting lead...you'd need to find a user serviceable model (Liberty Mystic)


+1

.308 is just that, a .308 bullet. The can is probably bored to .310 or so for safety.

.357 is a .358 (I think) bullet so thats just right out. 9mm can is the way to go.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:37:17 AM EST
It would be a waste of time and money I beleive because a .357 Magnum bullet would surely be supersonic anyway and would have a supersonic crack to it.
Now a standard velosity .38 special might work.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:05:33 AM EST
this has been done by a few people and i have one in the works getting cut and threaded. I will be shooting 38spl and will not bother suppressing 357. The key to good suppression is keeping it subsonic. The 357 does not do this. If you need more power than a 157gr 1000fps 38spl then load a heavy bullet. Some people have loaded big lead slugs as big as 246gr moving around 1000fps. This is has more muzzle energy than the standard subsonic 300blk and is MUCH cheaper since it is a lead bullet in plain old 38spl brass. It might not fly as good as the 300blk in longer range due to the bigger caliber. But it also will do better with terminal ballistics up close. .35 cal hole vs .30 cal hole. Many of the subsonic 300 rounds dont expand properly. I am not slamming the 300blk. To me i went 38spl because it is cheaper and i already reload for it. My 9mm can would have worked with subsonic 300blk or the 38spl. Also i wanted a carbine that was chambered in the same ammo as my pistol, a 686. I will say the 300blk should do better a t long distance with the right loading due to better shape of the bullet. But a full power 357 out of a 16" barrel is no slouch if you go hunting. You can also ream the chamber to 357 max. That should get full power lodes up to 30 30 energy.

Back to what you asked. I will be using a SWR Octane 9 HD2. The stamp should be showing up in a week so i have not shot it yet. But this can should work great for this type of thing. Stainless steal baffles and fully disassemble able with click together baffles. Cleaning out lead should be easy. Also there are a lot of different mounts available. Mine shipped with a 13.5 piston for my pistols. I already bought a 1/2x28 fixed barrel adapted to use on a few rifles i have. I searched along time for the 9mm can i wanted before going with the SWR. Check it out.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:54:09 AM EST
I have a handi rifle in .38/.357 and use a .45 silencer on it. No worries at all on using it with 158 gr .38's.

If you absolutely have to run a .357 then I would recommend that you look into getting a .45 silencer with a conversion piston in it. The added volume will help with the increased pressure from the .357.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:49:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 4:50:03 AM EST by Panta_Rei]
Originally Posted By dana:
this has been done by a few people and i have one in the works getting cut and threaded. I will be shooting 38spl and will not bother suppressing 357. The key to good suppression is keeping it subsonic. The 357 does not do this. If you need more power than a 157gr 1000fps 38spl then load a heavy bullet. Some people have loaded big lead slugs as big as 246gr moving around 1000fps. This is has more muzzle energy than the standard subsonic 300blk and is MUCH cheaper since it is a lead bullet in plain old 38spl brass. It might not fly as good as the 300blk in longer range due to the bigger caliber. But it also will do better with terminal ballistics up close. .35 cal hole vs .30 cal hole. Many of the subsonic 300 rounds dont expand properly. I am not slamming the 300blk. To me i went 38spl because it is cheaper and i already reload for it. My 9mm can would have worked with subsonic 300blk or the 38spl. Also i wanted a carbine that was chambered in the same ammo as my pistol, a 686. I will say the 300blk should do better a t long distance with the right loading due to better shape of the bullet. But a full power 357 out of a 16" barrel is no slouch if you go hunting. You can also ream the chamber to 357 max. That should get full power lodes up to 30 30 energy.

Back to what you asked. I will be using a SWR Octane 9 HD2. The stamp should be showing up in a week so i have not shot it yet. But this can should work great for this type of thing. Stainless steal baffles and fully disassemble able with click together baffles. Cleaning out lead should be easy. Also there are a lot of different mounts available. Mine shipped with a 13.5 piston for my pistols. I already bought a 1/2x28 fixed barrel adapted to use on a few rifles i have. I searched along time for the 9mm can i wanted before going with the SWR. Check it out.


I'm in the same camp as you regarding associated cost.....not to say I won't invest in a 300BO sometime. The thing about subsonics is the trajectories become very similiar and the effective range becomes more a matter of penetration. A 300BO in 220 or heavier bullets has over 0.6 BC. A 230gr standard load 45 ACP (BC of .16) drops ~7" at 100yds. The 300 BO with a slightly lighter 220gr load I believe is about 6". Quite a few people use 22LR standard velocity sightingsystems for 300BO as it is a little flatter than 300subs. Of course accuracy is always king in determining range, but for subsonic hunting one should test their loads for penetration as that will likely be the limiting factor. How capable do you think a 60gr 22LR is? A 147 gr 9mm? a 230gr 45? a 240grn 300 BlackOut? I'm certain I could make each cartridge minute of soda can at 50 and probably 100yds, but for the hunter there is a bit more to think about. There a few here that shoot exceptionally heavy 357,44,45..etc rounds. I'd love to hear your experience in hunting. A 320gr .429 or a 385gr .451 could be a better subsonic hunting cartridge, but it seems so few venture into this arena. Are these "stout" sub loads not safe for most pistol cans? The prospect of loading big lead slugs a deterrent? Hard to find barrell twists suitable? I suppose this and other considerations keep many from customizing some real heavy hitter subsonics on the cheap.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:48:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Panta_Rei:
Originally Posted By dana:
this has been done by a few people and i have one in the works getting cut and threaded. I will be shooting 38spl and will not bother suppressing 357. The key to good suppression is keeping it subsonic. The 357 does not do this. If you need more power than a 157gr 1000fps 38spl then load a heavy bullet. Some people have loaded big lead slugs as big as 246gr moving around 1000fps. This is has more muzzle energy than the standard subsonic 300blk and is MUCH cheaper since it is a lead bullet in plain old 38spl brass. It might not fly as good as the 300blk in longer range due to the bigger caliber. But it also will do better with terminal ballistics up close. .35 cal hole vs .30 cal hole. Many of the subsonic 300 rounds dont expand properly. I am not slamming the 300blk. To me i went 38spl because it is cheaper and i already reload for it. My 9mm can would have worked with subsonic 300blk or the 38spl. Also i wanted a carbine that was chambered in the same ammo as my pistol, a 686. I will say the 300blk should do better a t long distance with the right loading due to better shape of the bullet. But a full power 357 out of a 16" barrel is no slouch if you go hunting. You can also ream the chamber to 357 max. That should get full power lodes up to 30 30 energy.

Back to what you asked. I will be using a SWR Octane 9 HD2. The stamp should be showing up in a week so i have not shot it yet. But this can should work great for this type of thing. Stainless steal baffles and fully disassemble able with click together baffles. Cleaning out lead should be easy. Also there are a lot of different mounts available. Mine shipped with a 13.5 piston for my pistols. I already bought a 1/2x28 fixed barrel adapted to use on a few rifles i have. I searched along time for the 9mm can i wanted before going with the SWR. Check it out.


I'm in the same camp as you regarding associated cost.....not to say I won't invest in a 300BO sometime. The thing about subsonics is the trajectories become very similiar and the effective range becomes more a matter of penetration. A 300BO in 220 or heavier bullets has over 0.6 BC. A 230gr standard load 45 ACP (BC of .16) drops ~7" at 100yds. The 300 BO with a slightly lighter 220gr load I believe is about 6". Quite a few people use 22LR standard velocity sightingsystems for 300BO as it is a little flatter than 300subs. Of course accuracy is always king in determining range, but for subsonic hunting one should test their loads for penetration as that will likely be the limiting factor. How capable do you think a 60gr 22LR is? A 147 gr 9mm? a 230gr 45? a 240grn 300 BlackOut? I'm certain I could make each cartridge minute of soda can at 50 and probably 100yds, but for the hunter there is a bit more to think about. There a few here that shoot exceptionally heavy 357,44,45..etc rounds. I'd love to hear your experience in hunting. A 320gr .429 or a 385gr .451 could be a better subsonic hunting cartridge, but it seems so few venture into this arena. Are these "stout" sub loads not safe for most pistol cans? The prospect of loading big lead slugs a deterrent? Hard to find barrell twists suitable? I suppose this and other considerations keep many from customizing some real heavy hitter subsonics on the cheap.



Personally i NO experience hunting with this stuff or loading heavy rounds. So take this all with a grain of salt. But i do know of a few people that load the heavy (+220gr) lead in 38spl with the Handi. Handi did 2 different twists with their 357 barrels. So this needs to be checked out to see if your barrel will stabilize the heavy bullets BEFORE you put a can on it.

I cant comment much about the hunting because i have not looked into extensively. But i am pretty sure that i have seen some posts with people hunting with the sub rounds. Most of them are short range, less than 100 yards. Also if i remember right it was usually stuff smaller than deer or small deer. Beaver, small hog and Javelina (sp?) stuff like that come to mind. But if i remember right the heavy stuff penetrates well and makes a 35 cal or slightly bigger hole. I do know that the 357 max and hot 357 supersonic get used on deer with good success. But that is not really what we are talking about.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:17:53 PM EST
So will a .38spec round out of a 16" barrel be adequate for whitetail deer out to 100yds? I ask because I have my handi rifle cut and threaded. I am using a gemtech trinity can.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:40:03 PM EST
yes
100lb doe, In


Out






These are all 0.357 247gr cast bullets going 1000fps. Ranges from 25 yards to just over 100.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:55:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By chrishag:
So will a .38spec round out of a 16" barrel be adequate for whitetail deer out to 100yds? I ask because I have my handi rifle cut and threaded. I am using a gemtech trinity can.


Also you could call gemtec and see if it can handle the pressure from supersonic 357. If it does you could use supersonic round. You would get a sonic crack that would be a little loud. But still a lot quieter than a unsuppressed rifle.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:17:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By dana:
Originally Posted By chrishag:
So will a .38spec round out of a 16" barrel be adequate for whitetail deer out to 100yds? I ask because I have my handi rifle cut and threaded. I am using a gemtech trinity can.


Also you could call gemtec and see if it can handle the pressure from supersonic 357. If it does you could use supersonic round. You would get a sonic crack that would be a little loud. But still a lot quieter than a unsuppressed rifle.


Ill be honest I have already shot about a box of .357 out of it. I have had the can for a few years and never really liked it so I said screw it and tried it. You still get the supersonic crack obviously, but it does make it hearing safe. That what made me wonder if 150 grain .38s would be effective on white tails at less than 100yds as they are so easy on the ears.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 11:03:01 PM EST
I have recently looked into this subject in the last few days. I called SWR this am just to get some info on the Octane HD. It will handle .357 full loads with out a problem. It's rated for 300aac subsonic, .308 subsonic, 9mm either jacketed or cast ( what I'm interested in shooting) all rimfire calibers.

I was comparing the liberty mystic to the octane 9, I will be going with the octane 9 as I found it at an awesome price from a local dealer!

Hope that helps
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 4:49:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By 27Katana:
I have recently looked into this subject in the last few days. I called SWR this am just to get some info on the Octane HD. It will handle .357 full loads with out a problem. It's rated for 300aac subsonic, .308 subsonic, 9mm either jacketed or cast ( what I'm interested in shooting) all rimfire calibers.

I was comparing the liberty mystic to the octane 9, I will be going with the octane 9 as I found it at an awesome price from a local dealer!

Hope that helps


I looked really hard at all the 9mm cans when shopping for one and the Octane was tough to beat. User serviceable, stainless steel baffles, click together baffles (easy to disassemble), reasonable weight (Ti rant is lighter), suppression VERY close to Tirant, multiple mounts and pistons available (fixed barrel, tri lug, pistons), very good price. Silencer shop has these for close to $500 INCLUDING a piston setup. A few of the smaller companies that are close to $400 for there 9mm can dont include a piston device which will add over $100. Also the Octane is rated for a ton of different calibers. I think SWR is really selling them selves short by not listing ALL of the calibers it can handle.

Also the reason that 22LR cans are a pain to disassemble is because of all the lead build up on the tube from shooting lead bullets. Since the Octane uses the click together bullets is should be sealed kind of like a Specter or Sparrow (not in design but function) and be easy to disassemble. This means that if i want to shoot cheat cast lead in my 38spl or even 147 9mm i am GTG. That makes 38spl much cheaper than 300blk with FMJ.

I have been on the Octane soap box for the last 6 months since i bought one. I should get it in a few days. Hopefully it will live up to my expectations.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:26:15 AM EST
as previously mentioned, there isnt much use suppressing full power 357 mag loads since they will still be quite loud. if you need more downrange energy try using a super heavy bullet at subsonic velocities. iirc there are 220 and 240ish grain cast bullets available for 357 mag/38 special. I have a 357 handi rifle that I threaded and I use a silencerco osprey 9, its incredibly quiet! I left the barrel longer so i could get it even quieter. if you use a very fast powder with a longer barrel it give the powder enough time to fully burn before the bullet exits and its much quieter. even without a suppressor I have some loads that sound like a 22 short. the quietest I've been using 3.1gr of clays with a 158gr cast bullet in 38 spcl case and that sounds to be the quietest with titegroup being only slightly louder. here's a few pics of the handi rifle









I have since made a knurled thread protector and blued everything. all work was done on a 1950's south bed heavy 10 lathe that my dad and I rebuilt. that thing is AWESOME!

I also use the same suppressor on my 300blk, most 9mm suppressors are rated for subsonic 30 cal loads. I just had to make a 5/8-24 to 1/2-28 adapter (because I'm too cheap to buy a new piston and it made for a good project) and for these loads I needed to make a fixed barrel adapter for the booster so that I dont beat up the booster needlesly.( the 38 spcl loads didnt have enough pressure to over work the booster) but technically you should have the spacer in anytime your using a boosted can on a fixed barrel gun.

suppressor and thread adapter


suppressor with guts removed and fixed barrel spacer in front


thread adapter installed


suppressor mounted


I also decided to make a muzzle break while I was at it, it's kind of a modified AAC design, works great though!


everything here was made with the same 50's south bend heavy 10 and a 70's rockwell vertical mill.



Link Posted: 11/20/2012 9:18:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 9:22:24 AM EST by Yankee_81]
video of 357 mag handi rifle shooting light 38spcl loads. the bullet make much more noise when it hits the tree than it does leaving the gun. the "thwak" sound you hear is the bullet hitting a pine tree about 40-50 yds away.

link to youtube
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:45:11 AM EST
357 mag with hand load heavy bullets are nice and quiet through most closed breech guns, even pistols


This is a 44 mag but a 357 mag build like this would be nice and compact on a TC or Handi rifle
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:28:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 2:15:36 PM EST by ptaylor]
Just got this back from being cut down. 10.5" I love it.

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:56:06 PM EST
What ammo have you shot so far?
What distance?
Any photos of your groups?
How does it sound?
I just got mine back yesterday (cut to 10 in) I had to mod the stock a bit. I am afraid I may not get a chance to get it to the range before an upcoming surgery.

Originally Posted By ptaylor:
Just got this back from being cut down. 10.5" I love it.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/ptaylor/photo1-26.jpg


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:19:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By HAUK3:
What ammo have you shot so far?
What distance?
Any photos of your groups?
How does it sound?
I just got mine back yesterday (cut to 10 in) I had to mod the stock a bit. I am afraid I may not get a chance to get it to the range before an upcoming surgery.

Originally Posted By ptaylor:
Just got this back from being cut down. 10.5" I love it.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/ptaylor/photo1-26.jpg




i) 99% of the time I shoot 247gr cast bullet in federal 38spcl case with a mag pistol primer and 5.0 gr of W231. 1% of the time I'll shoot some cheap store bought 357 mag ammo.
ii) 0 to 100 yards is what I have my scope adjusted for.
iii) This is typical at 100 yards before I had it cut down

iv) it sounds like a powerfull air rifle
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:54:59 PM EST
Looks great, Thanks for the info.
Originally Posted By ptaylor:
Originally Posted By HAUK3:
What ammo have you shot so far?
What distance?
Any photos of your groups?
How does it sound?
I just got mine back yesterday (cut to 10 in) I had to mod the stock a bit. I am afraid I may not get a chance to get it to the range before an upcoming surgery.

Originally Posted By ptaylor:
Just got this back from being cut down. 10.5" I love it.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/ptaylor/photo1-26.jpg




i) 99% of the time I shoot 247gr cast bullet in federal 38spcl case with a mag pistol primer and 5.0 gr of W231. 1% of the time I'll shoot some cheap store bought 357 mag ammo.
ii) 0 to 100 yards is what I have my scope adjusted for.
iii) This is typical at 100 yards before I had it cut down
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/ptaylor/photo4-5.jpg
iv) it sounds like a powerfull air rifle


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