Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 10/30/2009 8:58:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2009 9:08:59 PM EST by gdblair]
How about a 1894/Blackhawk combo in 30-357 Paxton?

A necked down .357 able to fire 60grFMJ to heavy boat tail spitzer's.

This would be odd enough for me ... let me see if I've got another beer ....



. . . I'm out
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 4:38:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 7:32:21 AM EST
As to the why , it would probably be an answer for someone who has a fetish for cartridges such as .32 H&R , 32-20 , .30 Carbine , .327 Federal , 7.62x25 Tokarev , and even the 300 Whisper.

.308 diameter bullets and .357 brass are pretty proliferate as well are firearms they are chambered in , providing plenty of options.

Given case capacity and pressure limits a 20 % increase in power over the 32-20/30carbine/327 one should not feel underarmed for HD.

With a case capacity of 25.1 vs 25.8 for the 300Whisper it offers some other interesting options.

In a revolver the case has no taper and only a small shoulder of greater than 30* minimizing the chances of set-back.

Compared to the .357 it shoots flatter and farther and offers better penetration . While it's no 30/30 or 7.62x39, it's certainly on their heels with it's capacity almost identical to the 300 whisper.

A lever and revolver in this caliber would be pretty versatile.

For reference ,similar cartridges would be the 30-357 Hoskins and Puma .30 Special. P.O. Ackley made reference to it around 1966(?) and a fellow from Brazil did some work with one around 1991(puma 30 special)

.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 7:50:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 9:47:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By AeroE:
When I find the sketch, I'll post a drawing of a .22 wildcat based on the .32 H&R Magnum I designed for another member a couple of years ago. I guess I deleted it from my media file so I'll have to upload it again.



That gives me another interesting thought , .22 sabots.

The more I think about it , the more I think I would like this 7.62x33R in an EBR build.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:33:17 AM EST
the spitzer would not be a good idea in a tube fed centerfire.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:49:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By LadyMacBeth:
the spitzer would not be a good idea in a tube fed centerfire.


I know this Macbeth , most of the "spitzers" probably wouldn't even feed from the magazine in the first place due to their length.

If they were short enough to feed I would only load 2 , shoot one , load one . . .

Are the Leverlution bullets available as a component yet?

One thought i had was to mill a meplat on some Barnes spitzers and maybe a hollow point , but that is just a thought at this point.

I don't what the chances are of finding a reamer already done for this so I'm looking at neck length in case I have to have one made.

The drawing I've seen showed a neck of .260-ish , if I wanted to get a more useful capacity closer to the whisper I'd need a .196 or so (which would be a whisper cut down to 1.3").This would be fine by me as the Tok is .12 , 357Sig is .16 , . . .

At any rate , I think 110 gr bullets at 2400 fps are a distinct possibility.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:00:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 4:02:00 PM EST by AeroE]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:34:26 PM EST
Interesting. I would go the opposite direction. 357 baines and davis (44 mag necked to 357) IIRC (I considered doing this about 15 years ago but did not have the funds for the custom job and the reloading setup and then moved on to other things.)from a 7.5 inch black hawk you could launch 158 gr bullets at around 2000fps.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:34:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By paddymurphy:
Interesting. I would go the opposite direction. 357 baines and davis (44 mag necked to 357) IIRC (I considered doing this about 15 years ago but did not have the funds for the custom job and the reloading setup and then moved on to other things.)from a 7.5 inch black hawk you could launch 158 gr bullets at around 2000fps.


I like the .357/44 B&D , some others that have had my interest are Gary Reeder's 300GNR , 356GNR , and 41GNR . I think some of the stats on those are 110gr@ 2200 , 125gr @ 2200 , and 170gr @ 2100 fps respectively.


Being a minimalist myself , the 30/357 appealed to me as a small game to potentially light deer cartridge . The ability to have it in a revolver and a carbine adds to the attraction but then being able to singly load a sleek little spitzer and reach out is an interesting possibility.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:47:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By gdblair:
Originally Posted By AeroE:
When I find the sketch, I'll post a drawing of a .22 wildcat based on the .32 H&R Magnum I designed for another member a couple of years ago. I guess I deleted it from my media file so I'll have to upload it again.



That gives me another interesting thought , .22 sabots.

The more I think about it , the more I think I would like this 7.62x33R in an EBR build.



I used the .32 S&W Long. The neck is a little long, enough to give a full 1.5D engagement on the bullet if the bearing surface could be that long.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=13891


That is bizarre Aero , what was the user's intent ?


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:36:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 5:40:13 AM EST by AeroE]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:46:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By gdblair:
How about a 1894/Blackhawk combo in 30-357 Paxton?

I don't know when Bob Paxton came out with his cartridge, but I've had mine since '82. My .30 GPC is also a .357 magnum case necked down to .30 caliber.

I had a .30 caliber barrel installed on a 1894 Marlin .357 and the cylinder reamed out on a Ruger Blackhawk .30 carbine. The rifle is pretty flat-shooting and the pistol puts out a hell of a roar along with a huge fireball.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 1:34:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By coyote3:

Originally Posted By gdblair:
How about a 1894/Blackhawk combo in 30-357 Paxton?

I don't know when Bob Paxton came out with his cartridge, but I've had mine since '82. My .30 GPC is also a .357 magnum case necked down to .30 caliber.

I had a .30 caliber barrel installed on a 1894 Marlin .357 and the cylinder reamed out on a Ruger Blackhawk .30 carbine. The rifle is pretty flat-shooting and the pistol puts out a hell of a roar along with a huge fireball.


I envy you.

Are your case dimensions similar to the Paxton? What kind of loads have you used ?


Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:19:23 AM EST
Years ago I had a 9mm cylinder done over to Bain davis. Truth of the matter is it is a royal PITA to form cases . I don't have any real use for it , just thought it would be cool . I also have a contender in 357 Herrit (30/30 cases necked up to .357) . I also find it a PITA to form and load for.
Neither of these guns have been shot in 10 years and only then for a handfull of shots.
I can not see myself going with another wildcat unless I have a particular use that factory rounds do not handle (unlikely)

On the other some guys like messing with oddball stuff- keep haveing fun!
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:25:59 AM EST
The case dimensions are very similar. His straight case length is .995", mine is 1.000" and his shoulder angle is 33 1/2°, mine is 34°. Kind of weird when you consider we were working independantly.

I'll see about posting some pictures and load info, after I get home from work.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:53:37 PM EST
Here they are, along with a few shots of the ammo, dies and cylinder.


My Marlin 1894 and Ruger BN-31 chambered for the .30GPC.





I've used 100gr flat-nose lead, 110gr fmj and 125gr hollow-point bullets with various loads of H110 and AA #9 for the pistol, and H4227 and AA 1680 for the rifle.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 9:53:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 11:43:47 AM EST by gdblair]
Thanks for posting up pics Coyote , if your combination ever becomes a burden to you let me know !



Ever any set-back with the revolver ?

Saw one thing on Ammoguide that indicated a 110gr bullet (most likely out of a converted Blackhawk) at 1950 fps. That's pretty impressive since that is what the .30 carbine is doing out of a 18.5" bbl.

ETA - Do you have the reamer ! ?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:50:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By gdblair:
How about a 1894/Blackhawk combo in 30-357 Paxton?

A necked down .357 able to fire 60grFMJ to heavy boat tail spitzer's.

This would be odd enough for me ... let me see if I've got another beer ....



. . . I'm out


There are two problems with this:
1) Your COL is limited by the length of the rifle's action or the revolver's cylinder.
2) There is no apostrophe in spitzers.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:13:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By gdblair:
Thanks for posting up pics Coyote , if your combination ever becomes a burden to you let me know !



Ever any set-back with the revolver ?

Saw one thing on Ammoguide that indicated a 110gr bullet (most likely out of a converted Blackhawk) at 1950 fps. That's pretty impressive since that is what the .30 carbine is doing out of a 18.5" bbl.

ETA - Do you have the reamer ! ?

Never had a problem with set-back and the reamer can be seen in the main photo, just to the right of the rounds.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:39:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paul-LC:
Originally Posted By gdblair:
How about a 1894/Blackhawk combo in 30-357 Paxton?

A necked down .357 able to fire 60grFMJ to heavy boat tail spitzer's.

This would be odd enough for me ... let me see if I've got another beer ....



. . . I'm out


There are two problems with this:
1) Your COL is limited by the length of the rifle's action or the revolver's cylinder.
2) There is no apostrophe in spitzers.


Well , I guess it was good that I ran out of beer when I did . This would explain the apostrophe.

However , even with my brain fatigued from trying to stay afloat in spirits , I was able to envision singly loading an overlong spitzer into a lever-action.

I never said I would Try to put them in the revolver or in the tube of the lever . Everyone knows that wouldn't work.

Now , if you started with a .38 special or slightly shorter case with a long neck , the leverevolution .30's in 160gr would be a possibilty in both.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:50:09 PM EST
A T/C Contender carbine makes a much better single shot.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:54:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paul-LC:
A T/C Contender carbine makes a much better single shot.


Yeah , but it's a horrible repeater.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:58:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By coyote3:

Originally Posted By gdblair:
Thanks for posting up pics Coyote , if your combination ever becomes a burden to you let me know !



Ever any set-back with the revolver ?

Saw one thing on Ammoguide that indicated a 110gr bullet (most likely out of a converted Blackhawk) at 1950 fps. That's pretty impressive since that is what the .30 carbine is doing out of a 18.5" bbl.

ETA - Do you have the reamer ! ?

Never had a problem with set-back and the reamer can be seen in the main photo, just to the right of the rounds.


I didn't think it would present a set-back problem but I wanted to check. This is a neat little cartridge , it amazes me that it doesn't have a bigger following.



Top Top