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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/4/2001 1:52:30 PM EDT
New issue of Precision Shooting has an article by a guy shooting a .17 caliber cartidge in Highpower Matches and at 1000 yards(!). Shows a 600 yard 200-10X target center. Whaddya think? Will the mighty .223 be toppled by the .17 in the same way that the .223 elbowed out the .308?

Shooter
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:01:13 PM EDT
.223 elbowed out the .308? In Hipower matches? In your dreams! The .17 is very susceptible to wind drift, just like any small, lightweight bullet...including the .223. Neither are very well suited for long range accuracy.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:42:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
.223 elbowed out the .308? In Hipower matches? In your dreams! The .17 is very susceptible to wind drift, just like any small, lightweight bullet...including the .223. Neither are very well suited for long range accuracy.



Do you shoot highpower?
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 6:39:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
.223 elbowed out the .308? In Hipower matches? In your dreams! The .17 is very susceptible to wind drift, just like any small, lightweight bullet...including the .223. Neither are very well suited for long range accuracy.



Au contraire, my sharp tongue friend. A little known and hard to grasp (at least for me) fact of ballistics shows that wind drift and trajectory are dependent on ballistic coefficient and therefore time of flight only. In other words, if you have two bullets, one weighing, say, 250 grains, and one weighing, oh, 75 grains fired at the same velocity; if both possess the same BC, guess what? They both follow identical trajectories and have the same wind drift characteristics. It has to do with the fact that time of flight, and therefore the time a force (wind or gravity) is allowed to act on the bullet is determined by ballistic coefficient. This is the reason why the .223 has all but displaced the .308 in hipower comp; limitations on .308 velocity imposed by the cartridge are more than overcome by very sleek, smaller bullets pushed at the same or higher velocities out of the .223. This situation does not take into account the size of the payload deliverd, which is an entire other discussion.

THEREFORE

If .17 caliber cartridges can push a reasonably sleek bullet reasonably fast, there is no reason to think that it can't shoot with a .223 or even a .308 in competition! Believe it or not. Let the games and flames begin!
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 8:32:12 AM EDT
I am going to win lots of Highpower matches by shooting a .177 3 grain BB.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 8:35:37 AM EDT
shooter308, what is the weight of this .17 caliber bullet they were shooting?

Mike
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 8:51:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2001 8:44:42 AM EDT by Keith_J]

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
.223 elbowed out the .308? In Hipower matches? In your dreams! The .17 is very susceptible to wind drift, just like any small, lightweight bullet...including the .223. Neither are very well suited for long range accuracy.



Just like a large cannon ball falls faster than a small cannon ball? Get with the times, Galeio proved this fallacy a while back in Pisa. ;-}

There is a slight advantage due to surface area to mass ratios with larger bullets but is slight. Velocity indeed trumps this advantage with respect to the mouse gun in service rifle matches. In the match rifle, the 6.5 mm has bullets with the highest BC, therefore it will beat the .224" and .308" rifles. I doubt .172" will ever get a chance since it doesn't look like the US will be adopting a .172" rifle soon, and even if they do, it would be some time before the rules are amended to allow it in the service rifle matches.

We can thank the requirement for a bright trace to 800 meters for the roar of the mousegun. Why? This requirement led to the design of the M856 tracer which required the 1:7 twist. This twist allowed an 80 grain bullet to be used in the service rifle which made the 10 ring at 6 a much easier target.

(edited to add sarcastic smiley)
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 9:09:09 AM EDT
OTOH, a .224-243 (Middlestead), if sufficient accuracy could be attained, would be fantastic at 1000 using 90 gr JLK's. IMHO, one could get 3000 FPS with ~.650 BC'ed bullet and shoot the thing all day comfortably. The 90 already shows promise with match rifles, slow powder and 24-26" barrels in .223 Remington chambering. Drift in the bigger cased rifle would be a fraction of a 190 gr.SMK .308, even fired from a .300 Win Mag.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 6:12:31 AM EDT
The problem with the 22-243 wildcats is barrel heating and pre-mature barrel replacement. Obviously the case capacity is about the same as a 22-250 and everybody knows that the 22-250 started out as a long range target load so a 22-243 with a 1:8 twist long barrel might just be an interesting combination to try in an AR-10!

As for the 17 caliber bullets.... the problem here is that there are so few goo 17 caliber bullets out there. As long as most guys are using 22 Hornets, 222, 223, 224, 22-250 etc., then the 22 caliber will always have a better selection of bullets that do the job just as well as a 17 caliber.

I guess it's much like the 30-caliber bullets because of all the 30 caliber cartridges and guns that are used. It pays to conform if you want the best assortment of options.

As for the 17 caliber bullets working out to 1000-yards. Before I started shooting DCM I didn't think my 223 could match a 308 at 600-yards. I've learned that lesson well so I will darned if I will claim that the 223 is any better than a 17 if it is done correctly!
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 6:18:14 AM EDT
shooter308 or ANYBODY???, what is the weight of this .17 caliber bullet they were shooting?

Mike
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:48:43 PM EDT
Midway shows .17 caliber bullets available in 18, 20, 25, and 30 grains.
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 9:53:28 AM EDT
For long range 17 cal. most people use 37gr bullets from Berger. There are others out there but these are the more available. They require a different twist than what comes in fact Rem or TC Barrels.
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