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Posted: 4/30/2009 6:02:41 PM EDT
I just sold my 1965 Enfield 2A (from MN to GA).  The buyer said he will pay for it, but wants me to ship it to his friend who has the C&R.  I said it sounded funny, and that the funds should be coming from the same guy as the C&R.  He said, no problem, he'd just have his C&R friend pay for it...

When I look into my yellow ATF manual, I don't see ANY provision for this kind of deal. ALL I see is that on out of state transfers, the buyer has to come to my state in person and fill out a 4473, or the rifle has to be shipped C&R to C&R.  (Well, it seems that a non-C&R can ship to a C&R, as well).   The buyer said his friend looked and didn't see anything prohibiting it.

Am I missing their more liberal interpretation somewhere in the ATF manual?

Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:12:52 PM EDT
AFAIK if you ship to the C&R, the responsibility becomes his.  Assuming his C&R is legit, you're GTG.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:44:41 PM EDT
If you sell it to the C&R holder, it's not your problem anymore.  Just keep your bound book in order.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:39:49 AM EDT
This is not a good situation.  I would not sell to them.  The other C&R holder is acting as a dealer and you know about it and are a party in the transaction.  Ship it to an 01 FFL or not at all.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:34:12 AM EDT
I had pretty much the exact thing happen to me, guy wanted to buy a gun, but to send to his friend, told him I couldnt do that, shipped it to an regular FFL instead. If he wanted to have the benefits of a C&R he should have gotten one himself, it just dont feel right when something like that happens even though it could be totally innocent. The way I look at it is like the line from the movie office space, when dealing with firearms " they dont send you to blue collar conqiucal visits prison, they send you to federal pound you in the ass prison"
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 8:15:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By airgun1:
This is not a good situation.  I would not sell to them.  The other C&R holder is acting as a dealer and you know about it and are a party in the transaction.  Ship it to an 01 FFL or not at all.


That right there. 03FFL blatantly acting as a dealer. That's some bad juju there.  There is no way in hell I would be a party to that.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 10:54:07 AM EDT
Yeah, I see the majority of people feel the way I do in this situation.  I called my local FFL, here, and he concurred.  This transaction will only proceed by being transferred through a gun shop/FFL on the buyer's end.  Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 12:33:45 PM EDT
An 03 does not permit you to engage in the business of dealing in any kinds of firearms.  If a C&R holder is receiving a firearm with the sole intention of giving it to his friend, that's engaging in business.  If an 03 holder buys an C&R-eligible gun for their own use then decides they don't want it, they can sell it no problem, but you cannot buy a C&R gun with the intention of transferring it to an individual.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 2:30:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChickenDaddy:
Yeah, I see the majority of people feel the way I do in this situation.  I called my local FFL, here, and he concurred.  This transaction will only proceed by being transferred through a gun shop/FFL on the buyer's end.  Thanks for the input.


I'd sooner say nothing to them and find a new buyer....keep them stupid
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:12:14 PM EDT
In other words a C&R can't be engaged in the business of selling like a full FFL, which is what the person he wants it shipped to intends to do. Chicken don't do the transfer unless its to a FFL, knowing that a a straw purchase will take place as a result of your sale, would put you in a bad situation with the ATF.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:42:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 5:43:55 PM EDT by twodownzero]
Nothing wrong with it.  Ship it.

Straw purchase is misrepresenting yourself as a buyer so that someone who CANNOT LEGALLY OWN a firearm can take possession.

Either way, it's a non issue as you transferred it to another FFL.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:44:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 5:45:57 PM EDT by epointer]
it does sound like a straw purchase, unless he is buying for his friend that has the C&R. A C&R holder cant just buy firearms and sell them right away. I am pretty sure that any firearm that is acquired with a C&R has to stay in the licensees possession for at least 2 years before he can sell or transfer the firearm.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:48:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By epointer:
A C&R holder cant just buy firearms and sell them right away. I am pretty sure that any firearm that is acquired with a C&R has to stay in the licensees possession for at least 2 years before he can sell or transfer the firearm.


I 'm absolutely sure you're wrong.  I can sell firearms for any reason that I desire, so long as it's not to maintain my livelihood.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:09:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 6:13:52 PM EDT by epointer]
I may of confused the two year part with something else, but buying firearms with the intent to resell them is engaging in business with the license. A C&R is meant for the holder of it to acquire firearms for his collection not someone elses.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:15:43 PM EDT
It is perfectly legal for the C&R holder to do this. He is not engaging in the business of being a dealer if he is not deriving an income from buying and selling.  
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:49:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 6:51:07 PM EDT by skywarp989]
Originally Posted By Mudruck:
Originally Posted By airgun1:
This is not a good situation.  I would not sell to them.  The other C&R holder is acting as a dealer and you know about it and are a party in the transaction.  Ship it to an 01 FFL or not at all.


That right there. 03FFL blatantly acting as a dealer. That's some bad juju there.  There is no way in hell I would be a party to that.


+1. Stay away.

ETA: This is NOT "straw purchase" –– that is something different. This is still, however, not legal for the 03FFL to do. He can't do "dealer transfers" on his license.
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