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Posted: 7/6/2016 7:43:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/22/2018 10:36:34 AM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:43:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2017 9:58:05 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:43:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2017 9:58:43 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:44:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2017 9:59:38 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:44:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2017 10:00:18 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:44:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2017 10:01:45 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:44:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/25/2018 5:14:49 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:45:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2019 9:01:05 AM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 7:47:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2016 7:47:36 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Waiting for current info
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 10:43:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2016 10:43:17 PM EST by BigWaylon]
updates
Link Posted: 7/6/2016 10:47:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2016 10:47:39 PM EST by BigWaylon]
updates
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 6:51:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2016 6:51:22 PM EST by BigWaylon]
unlocking
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 7:02:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 7:51:21 PM EST
There has been some confusion about whether or not the Form 1/4/5 needs to be sent to the CLEO of each responsible person for entities. My reading of the instructions is that it only has to go to the CLEO of the applicant or that of the transferee's address. Also, since the forms are marked in the footer as to which copy is who's, I'm not sure if the ATF expects them to be filed that way or not. I'll try to find out.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 7:53:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 7:57:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

It's pretty clear in the Instructions. It's only sent to a CLEO that has jurisdiction over the address in 3b (Form 1) or 2a (Form 4).
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By AlabamaPaul:
There has been some confusion about whether or not the Form 1/4/5 needs to be sent to the CLEO of each responsible person for entities. My reading of the instructions is that it only has to go to the CLEO of the applicant or that of the transferee's address. Also, since the forms are marked in the footer as to which copy is who's, I'm not sure if the ATF expects them to be filed that way or not. I'll try to find out.

It's pretty clear in the Instructions. It's only sent to a CLEO that has jurisdiction over the address in 3b (Form 1) or 2a (Form 4).
That's my reading as well.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 9:09:10 PM EST
Your Responsible Persons Questionnaire says not to mail photo to CLEO. The draft form saying "CLEO Copy" at footer has photo placeholder blocked out. Yet in your instructions you say to mail a copy with photo to CLEO?
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 9:18:26 PM EST
Nice work and thanks for doing this for those that need it!

Question re: fingerprinting, will you be able to use IAFIS machines to digitally take fingerprints and print off numerous copies at one time or does it have to be in ink?
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 9:59:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2016 10:00:07 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 10:19:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

Did I fix it?

I know that's one of the items that changed between Draft and final. I think you're talking about my "Actions to take" section, which is where I fixed it. If I missed it somewhere else, let me know.

Thanks!
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By Gopherboy128:
Your Responsible Persons Questionnaire says not to mail photo to CLEO. The draft form saying "CLEO Copy" at footer has photo placeholder blocked out. Yet in your instructions you say to mail a copy with photo to CLEO?

Did I fix it?

I know that's one of the items that changed between Draft and final. I think you're talking about my "Actions to take" section, which is where I fixed it. If I missed it somewhere else, let me know.

Thanks!


Looks good. I *thought* I had this all straight in my head, so when I read through it, I did a few double-takes to make sure I wasnt misreading something either.

Thank you for taking time to do this.
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 7:36:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2016 7:49:45 AM EST by HansohnBrothers]
It would be nice if the copies auto-filled. Hopefully someone with Acrobat skillz can make that happen.

Also, the Responsible Person Questionnaire clearly states that a copy must be sent to the CLEO of that person. So, a copy must go to CLEOs of all the responsible persons.

From the instructions:

"Item 5- Law Enforcement Notification: Each responsible person must provide a notification on this form of the proposed making or acquisition of an NFA firearm to his/her chief law enforcement officer having jurisdiction where the responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor."

From the form 4 instructions:

"Law Enforcement Notification. The transferee must provide a copy of the Form 4 to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction over the area of the transferee's address shown in item 2a of the Form 4. In addition, if the transferee is other than an individual, a copy of the Form 5320.23, National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Questionnaire, completed by each responsible person must be provided to their respective chief law enforcement officer. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor.."
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 7:48:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 7:50:16 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

Did I say otherwise? Didn't intend to...just wanting to make sure. If I did, please let me know where.

The F1/F4 only goes to the CLEO for the address on the form, but a 5320.23 (without photo or prints) goes to the CLEO for each RP.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:
It would be nice if the copies auto-filled. Hopefully someone with Acrobat skillz can make that happen.

Also, the Responsible Person Questionnaire clearly states that a copy must be sent to the CLEO of that person. So, a copy must go to CLEOs of all the responsible persons.

From the instructions:

"Item 5- Law Enforcement Notification: Each responsible person must provide a notification on this form of the proposed making or acquisition of an NFA firearm to his/her chief law enforcement officer having jurisdiction where the responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor."

Did I say otherwise? Didn't intend to...just wanting to make sure. If I did, please let me know where.

The F1/F4 only goes to the CLEO for the address on the form, but a 5320.23 (without photo or prints) goes to the CLEO for each RP.

Just a clarification.

Link Posted: 7/10/2016 7:54:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 8:12:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

Thanks. I posted that on about a half-dozen sites last night, so it's all a little blurry to me. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to have missed something since proofreading your own work is quite difficult.

I know I specified that somewhere, including underlining "their CLEO".
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:
Just a clarification.

Thanks. I posted that on about a half-dozen sites last night, so it's all a little blurry to me. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to have missed something since proofreading your own work is quite difficult.

I know I specified that somewhere, including underlining "their CLEO".

Agreed, the last week is all a blur. For us, we'll just send the whole packet to the state level CLEO and not worry about individual RP's local CLEO. Multi-state trusts will need a little more attention.
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 8:51:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2016 8:53:39 AM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 1:08:01 PM EST
hell of a job, as always BW. In the parts where you mention OAL includes the stock fully extended, I'd also put a blurb in there about muzzle devices / perma attachment etc and how that affects things....because those questions come up constantly here and elsewhere.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 7:33:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 7:48:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 7:27:25 PM EST
Thanks for taking the time to put this together BW. I'm applying for my first NFA item on Friday (Form 1 suppressor) and this is a huge help.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 7:43:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By seejay3558:
I'm applying for my first NFA item on Friday (Form 1 suppressor) and this is a huge help.
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Can I ask why, on Friday?
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 7:48:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Gopherboy128:


Can I ask why, on Friday?
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Originally Posted By Gopherboy128:
Originally Posted By seejay3558:
I'm applying for my first NFA item on Friday (Form 1 suppressor) and this is a huge help.


Can I ask why, on Friday?


Unfortunately, that's the soonest I can. Doing my trust tomorrow and payday is Friday.

I messed up and waited too long.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 10:07:00 PM EST
Thanks BigWaylon
and
FBHO
Link Posted: 7/12/2016 12:18:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2016 4:43:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Need to give a big THANKS to Silencer Shop. They were kind enough to share with me the contact info for the state-level CLEO they're going to use to simply their CLEO Notification process. I've added the list here.

It currently contains only the states were suppressors are legal, as that's all SS really needs. If your state doesn't allow suppressors, but does allow other NFA items, feel free to provide me the info and I'll update the list.
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Hey that sounds familiar... Good info to have, so we can all use the same address.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 11:41:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 11:58:41 AM EST
Thanks!
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 3:28:56 PM EST
Awesome, thanks
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 6:54:14 PM EST
I saw this on the ATF site:

"NFA eForms:

Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm

Filed to request permission to make and register a National Firearms Act firearm

May only be submitted in eForms by a legal entity or government agency"



Does this only indicate TRUSTs eForms still only or is the Form 1 Individual Builds on there now? This would be amazing if true.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 6:57:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 6:59:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
For now, nobody can submit a Form 1. I believe it's been removed from the site, but I haven't logged in today.
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Looked earlier and form 1 wasn't there.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 7:05:34 PM EST
Yeah, I know they went down in prep for the Form 1 change, I just happen to go to the ATF site https://www.atf.gov/firearms/applications-eforms --> And it says Form 1. I never looked at it before since I've always done individual Form 1 submits and not trusts. I wasn't sure if that wording is the exact same which would indicate no change from the eForms for Trusts and no eforms for the Form 1 individual. I'm hoping it was updated for Form 1 Individuals! That would be gravy.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 7:12:47 PM EST
If they bring it back online, individuals would actually be less work...
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 7:40:47 PM EST
Well, I was taking a look at the new Form 1 a little while ago. I noticed that the PDF now had editable boxes for the first "ATF" copy which is great but the other 2 copies for the "Returned by ATF" and "LEO Copy" are not editable. It would be great if it was just eform submit which is why I brought it up =) Like you said, it would be less work seeing as I could just fill everything in online, print it out for the LEO copy and just send in my Photo/Prints instead of having to write all that crap up, make copies, and worry about mailing. It would be easier to pay as well instead of having to send my Credit Card info through the mail as usual.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 7:43:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By nbhansfo:
Well, I was taking a look at the new Form 1 a little while ago. I noticed that the PDF now had editable boxes for the first "ATF" copy which is great but the other 2 copies for the "Returned by ATF" and "LEO Copy" are not editable. It would be great if it was just eform submit which is why I brought it up =) Like you said, it would be less work seeing as I could just fill everything in online, print it out for the LEO copy and just send in my Photo/Prints instead of having to write all that crap up, make copies, and worry about mailing. It would be easier to pay as well instead of having to send my Credit Card info through the mail as usual.
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You need to save it as a pdf and view it with Adobe Reader for all the forms to fill in. It won't work in a browser or an Apple viewer.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 7:51:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 7:54:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

Yep. It's supposed to be set up so you fill in the first copy and it populates the others, leaving out the info that doesn't go to the CLEO. Same way for the 5320.23.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By AlabamaPaul:
Originally Posted By nbhansfo:
Well, I was taking a look at the new Form 1 a little while ago. I noticed that the PDF now had editable boxes for the first "ATF" copy which is great but the other 2 copies for the "Returned by ATF" and "LEO Copy" are not editable. It would be great if it was just eform submit which is why I brought it up =) Like you said, it would be less work seeing as I could just fill everything in online, print it out for the LEO copy and just send in my Photo/Prints instead of having to write all that crap up, make copies, and worry about mailing. It would be easier to pay as well instead of having to send my Credit Card info through the mail as usual.
You need to save it as a pdf and view it with Adobe Reader for all the forms to fill in. It won't work in a browser or an Apple viewer.

Yep. It's supposed to be set up so you fill in the first copy and it populates the others, leaving out the info that doesn't go to the CLEO. Same way for the 5320.23.



Ah! Good looks man! Yeah, I was just in Google Chrome playing around and looking but didn't try to actually fill in anything. Well that makes life easier. At least now I know we don't have to use a damned black ink pen and hand write everything. I am still holding out hope for the eForms to include Form 1 Individual. I'll test it out tomorrow if it is back up.
Link Posted: 7/14/2016 2:08:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2016 2:35:48 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/14/2016 5:36:36 PM EST
Well, the eForm systems is back online at the moment. I am unable to find the Form 1 (Form:5320.1). At the moment it appears that the Form 1 has been removed until a later date. Hopefully they will add it shortly. I do have a question. What indication was on the eForm site prior to 41F that showed it only was avail for Trust builds and not "Individual Form 1" builds? Did it say when selecting the application "For Trusts Only" or something along those lines? I appreciate all the feedback thus far and greatly appreciate the help you've been giving BigWaylon. I have ordered my Fingerprint cards. I typically just go down the road to pay for them because I was told in the past that they were required to be done by a professional but never really understood that and it seems to be a false narrative. I honestly think gun shops should have a guy trained in doing these and just charge a couple dollar fee or include it in your suppressor purchase when you're at the store. It would make buying a commercial suppressor so much easier! (and worse for the wallet haha!)
Link Posted: 7/14/2016 5:56:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/30/2017 1:44:39 PM EST by BigWaylon]
Link Posted: 7/14/2016 5:58:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
added a section on filling on an FD-258LE Fingerprint Card here...

ETA: if anybody that has successfully done it before would like to add something, let me know...
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Just an observation but inclusion of a person's SSN is optional on the FP card.
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