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Posted: 4/10/2006 6:23:12 PM EST
Took my new 870 out today with the GF to pattern it and bust some clays. Patterned all my loads and had the best patterns with Remington's Managed Recoil 00 Buckshot and Federal's Plated 00 Buckshot. After patterning and wanting to try out slugs for the first time (which was quite an experience) I decided to bust some clays.

I was using Winchester's Univeral #8 Shot, and after each shot I could barely pump the action. After I fired one shell, it took almost 2 minutes to get the shell out. I then loaded up some Winchester Super-X 00 Buckshot, and fired 7 shells rapidly without any problems. I tried again, and the shells kept getting stuck in the chamber.

So after 5 shots and 4 clays busted, we called it a day since we had no other birdshot beside these Universal loads. Basically, are these shells in lack of a better word shitty? I had a similar problem with another 870 using these loads. What are some good alternatives, and is the problem with these shells?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:00:13 PM EST
Are these the 100 round packs? I've heard there are problems with those, but I have never tried any myself.

I use a variety of shells for informal clays. The Remington "Game" loads work just fine; those are around $3.27 a box (Walmart). The Remington Gun Club shells are about $3.67 a box(Walmart) and work just fine too. The Remington STS and Nitro versions of the target loads are great; they run about $5 a box (Walmart). The Winchester AA Target loads are really good too, and about $5 a box.

None of the above mentioned shells have had any extraction problems or issues in anything I have used them in.

I've seen that Wolf has some "target" loads. I'm not sure if Midway has them in stock yet or not. The price is most certainly appealing and I plan to try some soon.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:18:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:52:28 AM EST
I have never seen or heard of Winchester "Universal" shells before. I take it the universal means it is for target or game?

Thanks for correcting me. I forgot that 100 round packs were Federal. I had heard reports that they caused problems, but I've never tried them. The Remington Game loads were priced better anyway.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:39:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:17:02 PM EST
I believe the Winchesters you tried are "promotional" loads. Meaning they are real cheap, cut one open and I'm pretty sure there is not even a wad, just a paper pad. Cheap shot lousy hull as well. Was it a steel base or was it still at least brass? I have found that some of my M12 Winchesters don't like a steel base shell. It seems like you are going to break an extractor not a good feeling. Also as I remember they didn't pattern worth a shit. Stick to Rem gun club or some of the premium lines. Worth the extra dough.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:46:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:23:51 PM EST
I went to China-Mart after work, and saw the Remington Game loads and Gun Club loads were both under 4 dollars IIRC. I just picked up some buckshot and slugs, but next time I head out for clays, I'll pick up some Remington loads.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:26:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By mike103:
No, both the Fed and Rem 100 packs are good it's just the Winchester that suck. MIKE.



Yep, in the 100 packs the Federals are the way to go. I also had problems with the Winchesters ejecting from my Browning BPS.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 10:28:08 AM EST
Winchester Universals will usually jam about 5 out of 25 rounds in my friend's 870, Federals are about 0 out of 25. Both are the same price.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 1:33:15 PM EST
Me and my son shot about 200 rds of universal today... His 870 kept jamming trying to make follow up shots on missed clay's and doubles... I kept blaming him for short stroking the gun... well dad made a damn fool of himself when it did it to me... several times no less!! In 30 years of using 870's I've NEVER seen one choke unless it was broken... this shit ammo turned a realible PUMP shotgun into a single shot. Oddly enough my usually picky when it comes to light field loads 1100 CM eat's it like candyhed
John
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:02:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By shultz:
Me and my son shot about 200 rds of universal today... His 870 kept jamming trying to make follow up shots on missed clay's and doubles... I kept blaming him for short stroking the gun... well dad made a damn fool of himself when it did it to me... several times no less!! In 30 years of using 870's I've NEVER seen one choke unless it was broken... this shit ammo turned a realible PUMP shotgun into a single shot. Oddly enough my usually picky when it comes to light field loads 1100 CM eat's it like candy so I finished off the universal and he shot remington I normally buy.

John



Huh?! That defies all known logic. But, an 1100 is a fine shotgun...
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 5:47:00 PM EST

Huh?! That defies all known logic. But, an 1100 is a fine shotgun...


I know... I still can't figure it out myself. My 1100 CM with the 22 inch barrel has ALWAY's been picky about cheap field load's, the only rounds it's likes so far are the remington value pack at wally world and this winchester universal... the federal value pack won't even extract far enough to jam... they back out a bit then slam back into the chamber. I do have a 28 inch field barrel... it eat's ANYTHING... unlike the 22 incher my CM came with.

even though the universal ran ok in my 1100 today I won't be buying more...

John
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 7:45:46 PM EST
Oh, a 22" barrel? No kidding? That is interesting, very interesting!
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 9:15:06 PM EST
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/tactical_shotguns.asp

scroll down to the tacticool 1100... my 1100 CM is the same gun just less tacticool with grey stocks

22 inch vent rib barrel with rem choke, 4 shot extended mag tube and a few other goodies... helluva good shottie...for an auto I actually like it BETTER than my M1 super 90... why? it comes up ALMOST as natural as an 870... I've never had a shotgun, pump, auto, O/U, SBS or other wise that came up as clean and natural as an 870... my 1100 CM is close

John
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 9:06:07 AM EST
I see, "CM" is Competition Master. I should have caught that the first time.

I'm still surprised that it is shooting the lighter stuff. They must have the gas ports just right. My 1100 came with a 28" Rem choke barrel, but I promptly ordered a 21" rifle sighted Rem choke barrel. The 21" was okay with lighter stuff, but not 100% reliable. Slugs and buck were fine, obviously.



I put the 28" barrel back on for informal clays, and really had fun. I removed the pistolgrip stock and went back to the factory one, then added an R3 recoil pad. The gun is way too much fun like this, and I don't see any real need for it to be set up any other way.

For slugs, buckshot, or anything else, including 3" shells that the 1100 isn't chambered for, I've got 2 870's, a Mossberg 500 Mariner, and a tricked out 20ga Winchester. Although, the new Tactical 1100 with 18" barrel is quite tempting...
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 10:22:56 AM EST
Yep, “CM”= competition master

Nice 1100 you have there tom… looks just like the one I had stolen from me I built it off a Wally world 1100 that they had on clearance for $300… added the 21 slug barrel with rem choke I found on the net for $105 shipped, extended rem mag tube, bolt handle and pistol grip stock… choate IIRC… I also ditched the pistol grip stock… their just not for me and that R3/regular stock is nice and comfy. I still miss my old 1100… I guess putting that young punk of a boyfriend my step daughter had… his 19 and 20 year old brothers in jail and getting “all state money” that bought me my CM was worth the price… oh and I still had the 28 inch barrel that came with the Wally world special

My 21 inch would not run field loads 100% either… buck, heavy game loads, and slugs… no problem. The 22 inch will run SOME light field loads, I think I have it narrowed down to the powder they use… the slower burning stuff like that used in the “super speed” at 1300fps or more won’t run at all… they must use a faster powder in SOME of the light loads that give 22 incher the gas impulse it needs… she runs slow and dumps a nice pile of hull’s right at your feet but she run’s 100% in my hands… my son will have a jam now and then but I think he’s not shouldering and holding it tight enough all the time.

I have run lot’s of buck and slugs through my CM with little ware on the gun so far… the ports are small so I don’t think I’m beating it to much… it’s harder on my wallet than the gun I sure was happy to finally find that Remington value pack and have it run well… easier on the wallet, gun and ya don’t need hot shit to bust clay’s and bounce around soda cans. If I really need to reach out there or run 3 inchers (my shoulder twitched when I typed 3 inch) like you I’ll use one of my 870’s.

John
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 1:53:30 PM EST
Wow, that's quite a story. Sorry to hear about the grief and loss of a gun, but being the king of odd occurrances like I am, I understand.

The slow vs. fast powder theory is interesting. I had never really thought of it like that before, but it all makes good sense. On a semiauto, the timing is everything.

The whole reason I got the 1100 was because I was looking for the perfect, one gun fits all applications- shotgun. The one size-fits-all shotgun hunts, defends the home, defends the farm, plinks, and fires everything from light target loads to 3" slugs. Since the 1100 is only chambered for 2 3/4", it failed the test. There have been times in the envelope of "farm defense" that I could have better completed my task with 3" Buckshot loads.

The 1100 is so much fun shooting informal clays, and so comfortable, I have no regrets getting it. I can truly shoot it all day long.

As far as 3" shells go, they will let you know if your gun fits you, if your shooting position is right, and much more. Here's the "Maxi" 870



Looks a lot like the 1100, doesn't it? That 870 is heavy. It is heavier loaded. It fits me, it is balanced, and I can shoot 3" shells, including slugs. The gun is too heavy to carry all day squirrel or rabbit hunting.

Along the same lines, I have been working on handloaded shells for vermin. The shells easily fall into the "turkey load" category- heavy shot payloads, lots of powder. I'm using these shells in single shot shotguns. I came across a load that used 1 3/8oz shot, a good dose of Blue Dot, but required a 3" hull. All the other shells I was loading were 2 3/4". The chamber pressure, shot payload, and everything else that effects recoil was similar in these 3" compared to the 2 3/4", so I thought I'd give them a try.

All I can say is WOW! Here's the videos

www.2guntom.com/454/video/NEF3in.avi

www.2guntom.com/454/video/NEF3inZoom.avi

That's an NEF Modified choke 12ga. You can see that I'm not a thick guy either. I added a Sims slip-on pad which makes the gun longer so it fits me better. It also dampens recoil dramtically. I wasn't hurt, bruised or sore after I fired those. Remember this is a light gun, at least 3lbs lighter than my maxi 870, maybe lighter. The reason, I suspect, that the recoil was so profound, is that the chamber is a tad short; the shells aren't opening up all the way, pressure spike, and WOW!

If you can make the gun fit you, 3" isn't so intimidating. At least that's my theory that I adhere too.
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