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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:22:53 AM EST
I've never seen this question asked in any forum on safes and vault doors before.

If one was planning on using a vault door to secure a gun vault and wanted to use it as a safe room as well, would something like the 3/8" steel door on a Fort Knox Vault Door do anything to stop serious incoming rounds (5.56mm, 30-06, 7.62mm)?
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 10:45:00 AM EST
chest plates are 1/2" iirc and are rated for .308 and sometimes 30-06 at 100 yards (could be wrong)
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 1:35:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/8/2009 1:41:21 PM EST by RckClimber]
No. I don't know of a RSC vault door that could. Handgun rounds sure, but rifle? No.There are safe manufactures though that will, if you request it, build it with a ballistic steel plate. It's going to cost ya though.

Brown Safe.


ETA: ~$6K minimum, without installation, fire protection, or shipping.
$8,339 for a G Rated (F is TL-30) Vault Door with Fire Protection (1 1/2" Steel door, 1/4" Ballistic Armor, 1/4" Copper, 2" Fire Cladding), doesn't include shipping or installation, which being 3300 lbs, is going to be expensive.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 3:19:57 PM EST
No, and 3/8" steel does not a vault door make. Check out hallsafe.com, and they can build you the appropriate door for your application. If you were really in the SF, just ask your 18B about the penetration of rifle rounds on mild steel, although I'd figure that any Green Beret would have seen that in person. It won't be cheap, and neither will the walls for the rest of the room. FWIW most home invaders, etc don't generally bring MBR's to rob a house in the US.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 3:59:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:

If you were really in the SF, just ask your 18B about the penetration of rifle rounds on mild steel, although I'd figure that any Green Beret would have seen that in person. It won't be cheap, and neither will the walls for the rest of the room. FWIW most home invaders, etc don't generally bring MBR's to rob a house in the US.


Thanks for your input, neighbor. If you can't be civil, why don't you go back to the GD?

I asked the damned question because Fort Knox doesn't say if they use AR500 steel armor plate or not. I'm very well aware that Level III steel plates will stop M855 and 7.62mm but they won't stop M193 (which is a major concern of mine). My "threat analysis" of the situation tells me that I want a door (and wall) that will stop anything that Wal-Mart stocks, at contact shot distance.

Link Posted: 6/9/2009 7:49:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:

If you were really in the SF, just ask your 18B about the penetration of rifle rounds on mild steel, although I'd figure that any Green Beret would have seen that in person. It won't be cheap, and neither will the walls for the rest of the room. FWIW most home invaders, etc don't generally bring MBR's to rob a house in the US.


Thanks for your input, neighbor. If you can't be civil, why don't you go back to the GD?

I asked the damned question because Fort Knox doesn't say if they use AR500 steel armor plate or not. I'm very well aware that Level III steel plates will stop M855 and 7.62mm but they won't stop M193 (which is a major concern of mine). My "threat analysis" of the situation tells me that I want a door (and wall) that will stop anything that Wal-Mart stocks, at contact shot distance.



Didn't know I was being uncivil, I wasn't trying to be, just frank. You must realize that by using the SF crest as your avatar, that you're putting out a loud message. So if you are or were an 18-anything, I sincerly apologize, as it seemed odd to me that someone as highly trained, experienced, and resourceful would be asking about rifle penetration on mild 3/8" steel, but as you pointed out, you didn't know what kind of steel they used. I beieve that 30.06 M2 AP is rated to penetrate 1/2" armor plate at 100yds, so with a vault door, you're looking at a tall order, and definately not a production piece by any gunsafe manufacturer. FWIW I've seen 55gr FMJ .223's put a noticeable dent into 3/8" rifle rated steel plate, and would imagine that anything bigger or with a stronger bullet would penetrate easily.

Link Posted: 6/9/2009 5:11:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:
Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:

If you were really in the SF, just ask your 18B about the penetration of rifle rounds on mild steel, although I'd figure that any Green Beret would have seen that in person. It won't be cheap, and neither will the walls for the rest of the room. FWIW most home invaders, etc don't generally bring MBR's to rob a house in the US.


Thanks for your input, neighbor. If you can't be civil, why don't you go back to the GD?

I asked the damned question because Fort Knox doesn't say if they use AR500 steel armor plate or not. I'm very well aware that Level III steel plates will stop M855 and 7.62mm but they won't stop M193 (which is a major concern of mine). My "threat analysis" of the situation tells me that I want a door (and wall) that will stop anything that Wal-Mart stocks, at contact shot distance.


I agree i didnt catch him being rude either
Didn't know I was being uncivil, I wasn't trying to be, just frank. You must realize that by using the SF crest as your avatar, that you're putting out a loud message. So if you are or were an 18-anything, I sincerly apologize, as it seemed odd to me that someone as highly trained, experienced, and resourceful would be asking about rifle penetration on mild 3/8" steel, but as you pointed out, you didn't know what kind of steel they used. I beieve that 30.06 M2 AP is rated to penetrate 1/2" armor plate at 100yds, so with a vault door, you're looking at a tall order, and definately not a production piece by any gunsafe manufacturer. FWIW I've seen 55gr FMJ .223's put a noticeable dent into 3/8" rifle rated steel plate, and would imagine that anything bigger or with a stronger bullet would penetrate easily.



Link Posted: 6/10/2009 5:57:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 6:00:55 PM EST by fearme]
Fort Knox makes WAY overpriced sheetmetal cabinets with overly complex and somewhat absurd locking bolt mechanisms. Shop elsewhere.

And nobody uses armor plate for safes as it's too expensive to buy and extremely difficult to cut and weld. I got a few small sheets of AR500 for targets and it's a major pain in the ass.

And you do realize M855 will certainly penetrate a LOT more steel than M193??? I wasn't sure what you meant..... Out of a 24" barrel I get "almost" total penetration of 5/8" mild steel at 200 yards with 855.



Link Posted: 6/10/2009 6:32:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By fearme:

And you do realize M855 will certainly penetrate a LOT more steel than M193??? I wasn't sure what you meant..... Out of a 24" barrel I get "almost" total penetration of 5/8" mild steel at 200 yards with 855.


Actually, out of carbine-length barrels, M193 will penetrate Level III steel plates that will stop M855. Plus, in terms of risk assessment/threat analysis, I highly doubt that anyone would be using a 24" AR to try and penetrate a basement vault. I would expect anything from an AR carbine to a FAL or M1A.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:53:28 AM EST
I hammered over 60 rounds of m193 from a 16" AR into a concentrated area of 1/2" cold rolled carbon steel before one penetrated from approx. 15 yards. Keep in mind a 4'x8' sheet of this weighs 650lbs.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:23:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By Silent_Knight:
I hammered over 60 rounds of m193 from a 16" AR into a concentrated area of 1/2" cold rolled carbon steel before one penetrated from approx. 15 yards. Keep in mind a 4'x8' sheet of this weighs 650lbs.


I may have to wind up having a custom door fabricated, or installing a blast door (which might be cheaper) filled with concrete. I don't care how much it weighs, as long as:

A) I can afford it.
B) It can stop multiple strikes from any Level III or Level IV threat at close range (less than 3m).
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 11:01:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Originally Posted By Silent_Knight:
I hammered over 60 rounds of m193 from a 16" AR into a concentrated area of 1/2" cold rolled carbon steel before one penetrated from approx. 15 yards. Keep in mind a 4'x8' sheet of this weighs 650lbs.


I may have to wind up having a custom door fabricated, or installing a blast door (which might be cheaper) filled with concrete. I don't care how much it weighs, as long as:

A) I can afford it.
B) It can stop multiple strikes from any Level III or Level IV threat at close range (less than 3m).



It takes about 20 hours or welding, cutting, grinding and fab.ing to create a door from 4x8 1/2" steel. And you will need a hell of a set of hinges.
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