I can't bring myself to buy that abortion they call the 556.

Crossing fingers.


0351

I doubt it.

They might come out with something cool though you never know.

I think I read over on the SIG forum that SIG was going to release the 556 Commando
that had a folder...........maybe a 551 folder? If they do I will definitely look at them.......that would make my choice between the SCAR(when it comes out), TPD AXR and Masada a little more difficult

Quoted: I doubt it. They might come out with something cool though you never know.

hey i love the scar and want one but i dont understand why everybody is waiting considering Hitlery is going to be taking office around the same time as these new rifles make it too the market

i think it would be wise to pick up what ever is availible now(XCR,556,US AUG's fs2000, p90) in the event that you dont get the oppertunity to own the new stuff(SCARS, masada, original 551)

you can always dump it here on the boards for 95 percent of what you payed for it.  it would be ashamed to wait on the wonder rifle only to have it taken off the consumer market befor it gets here.

hitlery+ dem congres= bad time for evil black rifles

I am one of the few people in the country that is an authorized machine gun dealer for Sig and has Sig Machineguns brought in to country on an import license from Sig themselves.

I have heard nothing from them at this time.

:)

Michele

The AR mag is NOT a better mag, not even close. Just because the US Army specified that the SCAR-L use the M16 mag doesn't make it better.

then what is more reliable then a an hk or Pmag?  what other mag can you run over with a full size mag and do a full auto dump with no issus. show me another mag that can accomplish that in great supply at a realistic price

I do know this, I got to handle both the 550 and 556.  The guy at the booth told me to look at something, close my eyes and bring the 550 to my shoulder and open my eyes.  Every time that rifle was on target.  I've never picked up a factory rifle that fit me that well.  It wasn't the same for the 556.  I'd try to be one of the first guys in line for a 550.

Quoted: then what is more reliable then a an hk or Pmag?  what other mag can you run over with a full size mag and do a full auto dump with no issus. show me another mag that can accomplish that in great supply at a realistic price

AK mag. Also, neither the HK or Pmag is USGI, and the Pmag has zero track record.

Quoted: Quoted: then what is more reliable then a an hk or Pmag?  what other mag can you run over with a full size mag and do a full auto dump with no issus. show me another mag that can accomplish that in great supply at a realistic price AK mag. Also, neither the HK or Pmag is USGI, and the Pmag has zero track record.

Just because something may be usgi doesn't mean shit whether it's the best either. There's lots of gear I was issued when in that was far from the best and having used many, many usgi M16 mags there right there too.
Hell I don't see the current used usgi M4's and M16A2's as the best there are either, but that doesn't mean a soldier has much choice in using something else till it's issued to him/her.

I haven't had a single problem with my Pmags and find them to be very well made and designed. There much better than any usgi aluminums I've used and there's lots of people using them now that would say the same. That's a track record building in itself and worth someone taking into account.

True enough though the M16/AR mag design isn't be used on new 5.56/.223 rifles because it's the best mag there is either, it's used because of being one of the most common used in military and civilian rifles and will be now with even more new rifles to come.

I haven't gotten to use any HK mags yet, but the Cproducts stainless are very nice and I would choose to use them after a Pmag these days.

Guys,

Firstly, does any of you actually know that the SG55X Series is NOT produced by SIG? Whereas the SIG556 is.
Those are 2 Different Manufactures, there is SIG ARMS in Germany and Exeter USA, and there is SAN which is located in "Schaffhausen" Switzerland.

YES, the SG55X series was done by SIG, but as Sig and Sons got sold and moved to Germany, the Army of Switzerland, which is using all 3 types of the SG55X version, was not happy about the fact that the main rifle should be produced in another country. Therefore, SAN came to life, the one and only producer of the SG55X series. That is also why the name changed from SIG55X series to SG55X series.

The SIG 556, is not anything close to the SG55X Series, except that you can swap upper and lower.
I dont really know what is actually the whole system behind the 556, since they are not sold around here, however, I do know every little bit about the SG55X series. It is so to say the fancy version of the Kalashnikov, because it can claim that it is also the only weapon next to the Kalashnikov, which passed the Dust test in the factory of Izhmash, yepp AR15 failed it. However I wouldnt know how this would look with the newer Piston driven version.

About the Magazines, lets say the AR15 mags are just very widely used and i have to say very handy. Since the whole American Army uses the Bananna Mags, why should FN with the Scar change everything? Why would SIG make an AR15 Magazine version of a piston driven rifle near to the 55X Series?
Answer the question yourself with logic, would you pay about 40 dollar a magazine, done in Switzerland? Or a G36 magazine which has to be shipped over from Germany? Come on, any Rifle not using AR15 capability, is already domed to failure from the beginning, or find me the statistics of how many magazines the US Army has, and then make it reasonable to change all those  for new ones for another system.
Then furthermore, think about the changement of gear needed, every magpouch for the AR15 mag will not fit an SIG or any other magazin, do you think the American Army will just change it all?

So dont come with the idea that the AR15 mag is the best ever used, each Mag has it's advantages and disadvantages. For my part, I can say that the Sig mag is very Large and fits only in special pouches. The advantages, they never every jammed with me, and they can be attached together, so that you can have a fast mag change.

Quoted: Guys, Firstly, does any of you actually know that the SG55X Series is NOT produced by SIG? Whereas the SIG556 is. Those are 2 Different Manufactures, there is SIG ARMS in Germany and Exeter USA, and there is SAN which is located in "Schaffhausen" Switzerland. YES, the SG55X series was done by SIG, but as Sig and Sons got sold and moved to Germany, the Army of Switzerland, which is using all 3 types of the SG55X version, was not happy about the fact that the main rifle should be produced in another country. Therefore, SAN came to life, the one and only producer of the SG55X series. That is also why the name changed from SIG55X series to SG55X series. The SIG 556, is not anything close to the SG55X Series, except that you can swap upper and lower. I dont really know what is actually the whole system behind the 556, since they are not sold around here, however, I do know every little bit about the SG55X series. It is so to say the fancy version of the Kalashnikov, because it can claim that it is also the only weapon next to the Kalashnikov, which passed the Dust test in the factory of Izhmash, yepp AR15 failed it. However I wouldnt know how this would look with the newer Piston driven version. About the Magazines, lets say the AR15 mags are just very widely used and i have to say very handy. Since the whole American Army uses the Bananna Mags, why should FN with the Scar change everything? Why would SIG make an AR15 Magazine version of a piston driven rifle near to the 55X Series? Answer the question yourself with logic, would you pay about 40 dollar a magazine, done in Switzerland? Or a G36 magazine which has to be shipped over from Germany? Come on, any Rifle not using AR15 capability, is already domed to failure from the beginning, or find me the statistics of how many magazines the US Army has, and then make it reasonable to change all those  for new ones for another system. Then furthermore, think about the changement of gear needed, every magpouch for the AR15 mag will not fit an SIG or any other magazin, do you think the American Army will just change it all? So dont come with the idea that the AR15 mag is the best ever used, each Mag has it's advantages and disadvantages. For my part, I can say that the Sig mag is very Large and fits only in special pouches. The advantages, they never every jammed with me, and they can be attached together, so that you can have a fast mag change.

Hell of a first post Dukedukensens to start yourself off on Arfcom. Welcome.

Yes most of us do realize the differences of Sig Sauer Germany, the US Sig Sauer and Swiss Arms, plus what they make and we can't get from them.
We just accept it a bit as common knowledge or take it for granted that everyone knows and don't really run through it much.
In turn details and outlooks of different posts can seem a bit confusing, but one of the biggest points that most of us bark about in wanting a 550/551 is that we can't get a current made 550/551 from SwissArms and Sig Sauer USA let us down like they did making the monstrousity the 556 is instead.

I'm not going to touch into the mag part of your post as I've already voiced enough on my outlook. I'm sure someone else will have a go at it.
I certainly would still love a actual new SG551 from Swiss Arms if I could get one for an affordable price.

SwissArms

SigSauer Germany

The bastards from New Hampster

Heck with a 550, I want a 556 pistol.

Quoted: I think I read over on the SIG forum that SIG was going to release the 556 Commando that had a folder...........maybe a 551 folder? If they do I will definitely look at them.......that would make my choice between the SCAR(when it comes out), TPD AXR and Masada a little more difficult Quoted: I doubt it. They might come out with something cool though you never know.

Yeah, 2008 is going to be an amazing year if all goes to plan.

Shoot, if we keep the Dems from gaining ground in the Senate and keep Hillary out of the White House we'll be looking at amazing advances and SHOT is going to be even bigger; if thats possible.

That's what I am hoping...........I will have money to burn in February ( company profit sharing check!!!) and I am looking for another EBR to round out my collection........may the best one win my money

Quoted: Quoted: I think I read over on the SIG forum that SIG was going to release the 556 Commando that had a folder...........maybe a 551 folder? If they do I will definitely look at them.......that would make my choice between the SCAR(when it comes out), TPD AXR and Masada a little more difficult Quoted: I doubt it. They might come out with something cool though you never know. Yeah, 2008 is going to be an amazing year if all goes to plan. Shoot, if we keep the Dems from gaining ground in the Senate and keep Hillary out of the White House we'll be looking at amazing advances and SHOT is going to be even bigger; if thats possible.

Let me start out by saying I do own an original 551 and owned several 556s.  The 551 and 556 are just about the same gun.  In fact I can't take both apart at the same time because most of the parts are the same.  Here are the facts from an owner of both.

1) The bolt carrier and bolt are the same.
2) The fire control parts are the same.
3) The barrel and the upper receiver are the same but different.  The thread are different between the two and the swiss shield,or whatever, is missing on the 556, along with the diopter, and the swiss barrel has a intigrated flash suppressor.
4) The charging handle is the same, the recoil spring is the same, the gas block, gas regulator,...

I fact the upper receiver, lower receiver, finish work on the barrel, the gas piston, gas tube, and furnture, are different.  You can in fact swap out all the 556 parts with 551 parts except the upper receiver, and barrel.  Missing still would be the diopter sight, and front site, which will fit the 556.

So all in all the 556 is missing the the diopter sight, better finish, and the option for a 551 lower.

I call them the same rifle.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: Guys, Firstly, does any of you actually know that the SG55X Series is NOT produced by SIG? Whereas the SIG556 is. Those are 2 Different Manufactures, there is SIG ARMS in Germany and Exeter USA, and there is SAN which is located in "Schaffhausen" Switzerland. YES, the SG55X series was done by SIG, but as Sig and Sons got sold and moved to Germany, the Army of Switzerland, which is using all 3 types of the SG55X version, was not happy about the fact that the main rifle should be produced in another country. Therefore, SAN came to life, the one and only producer of the SG55X series. That is also why the name changed from SIG55X series to SG55X series. The SIG 556, is not anything close to the SG55X Series, except that you can swap upper and lower. I dont really know what is actually the whole system behind the 556, since they are not sold around here, however, I do know every little bit about the SG55X series. It is so to say the fancy version of the Kalashnikov, because it can claim that it is also the only weapon next to the Kalashnikov, which passed the Dust test in the factory of Izhmash, yepp AR15 failed it. However I wouldnt know how this would look with the newer Piston driven version. About the Magazines, lets say the AR15 mags are just very widely used and i have to say very handy. Since the whole American Army uses the Bananna Mags, why should FN with the Scar change everything? Why would SIG make an AR15 Magazine version of a piston driven rifle near to the 55X Series? Answer the question yourself with logic, would you pay about 40 dollar a magazine, done in Switzerland? Or a G36 magazine which has to be shipped over from Germany? Come on, any Rifle not using AR15 capability, is already domed to failure from the beginning, or find me the statistics of how many magazines the US Army has, and then make it reasonable to change all those  for new ones for another system. Then furthermore, think about the changement of gear needed, every magpouch for the AR15 mag will not fit an SIG or any other magazin, do you think the American Army will just change it all? So dont come with the idea that the AR15 mag is the best ever used, each Mag has it's advantages and disadvantages. For my part, I can say that the Sig mag is very Large and fits only in special pouches. The advantages, they never every jammed with me, and they can be attached together, so that you can have a fast mag change. Hell of a first post Dukedukensens to start yourself off on Arfcom. Welcome. heWe just accept it a bit as common knowledge or take it for granted that everyone knows and don't really run through it much. In turn details and outlooks of different posts can seem a bit confusing, but one of the biggest points that most of us bark about in wanting a 550/551 is that we can't get a current made 550/551 from SwissArms and Sig Sauer USA let us down like they did making the monstrousity the 556 is instead.hI certainly would still love a actual new SG551 from Swiss Arms if I could get one for an affordable price.href=SwissArms SigSauer Germany The bastards from New Hampster

Thanks, well I was just not sure if many recognized it, and i wanted to tell.

In my opinion, the reason why there isnt any 55X series in America, might be the high price. Then furthermore, as civilian you should not have the possibility to own a SHTF rifle, which is actually used by the Military of a country. I am not talking about the PE version. Otherwise think about how many M16A4s or M4A1s are owned by civilians(I guess none), because it is an actual government rifle. Same thing with almost any weapon except the AK(special case here, since they even can produce them in the Khiber pass). The SGs in America were for sure, except the ones in PE edition, all LE/Military or Test and after some time sold on the private market. I mean SIG 551 is or was used by SWAT, then 552 is or was used by SEALs, FBI, ATF and many other American institutions.

@the guy who compared the 556 to the 551, Please check the barrel very closely, and then can you tell me what the exchange barrel for the 556 costs? (I have no clue) Because I know that the one for the 551 is about 600$, which is fairly expensive, but it is a very good one.

i would like to know how the 556 barrel preforms against the original barrel, (accuracy, handling heating up, ect...)  

do any prefomence comparison

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: *snip* Thanks, well I was just not sure if many recognized it, and i wanted to tell. In my opinion, the reason why there isnt any 55X series in America, might be the high price. Then furthermore, as civilian you should not have the possibility to own a SHTF rifle, which is actually used by the Military of a country. I am not talking about the PE version. Otherwise think about how many M16A4s or M4A1s are owned by civilians(I guess none), because it is an actual government rifle. Same thing with almost any weapon except the AK(special case here, since they even can produce them in the Khiber pass). The SGs in America were for sure, except the ones in PE edition, all LE/Military or Test and after some time sold on the private market. I mean SIG 551 is or was used by SWAT, then 552 is or was used by SEALs, FBI, ATF and many other American institutions. @the guy who compared the 556 to the 551, Please check the barrel very closely, and then can you tell me what the exchange barrel for the 556 costs? (I have no clue) Because I know that the one for the 551 is about 600$, which is fairly expensive, but it is a very good one.

there are quite a few people in this country that own (private) M16's and M4's. many machine guns are legal to own in the US.

height=8

Quoted: there are quite a few people in this country that own (private) M16's and M4's. many machine guns are legal to own in the US.

I am sorry Sir, you missunderstood me. I know that SSA weapons are allowed in America also seen owned M16A2, A1 and all their editions. However, I have never seen the M16A4 in civilian hands, neither the M4A1, to respect is that I am not talking about clones. However, I guess you are right and after the army beated the dirt out of them, they mostly go sold on the civilian market.

Furthermore, I guess after the SIG556 is sold in America, there is no more market for the SG55X series, since they are just not competitable on this market.

Sigarms, oh I mean Sig Sauer now, gets the barrel blanks from Europe from the same place that make the originals.  That has been confirmed over on SigForum by their former marketing director.  When the barrel blank comes here they are threaded for the receiver.  My understanding is that this is how they keep it legal to import the barrel.  Beyond that I do not know what is done.

My 551 is a 1 in 12 and the 556 is a 1 in 7.  The 551 seams to work better with heavier bullets and the 551 with lighter bullets.  They are both very accurate with the right ammo, and are good with the wrong ammo.  The 556 prefers a 69gr match rounds and the 551 prefers a 55gr match rounds.  Neither is as accurate as my AR with a 16 inch HB free-float.  If I'm having a good day MY 556 will out shoot the 551.

I don't have a 551.  I have owned and shot quite a lot of different rifles since I was 16.  Back in the day it would cost me $250 for a Mac 10, another $250 for the suppressor, for a total of $900 including the two tax stamps.  Turning on a Colt SP1 would total $900 as well including the tax stamp.  I bought and turned on a lot of stuff back in the day.  I also served in the army for 4 years, and in the State Dept another 3.  I'm not an operator, just someone like most on this board that loves guns and the way they work, like some guys love working on cars.

FOR ME, Comparing thie 556 to my semi HKs, Galils, ARs, and AKs, it takes them all hands down as my go to it had better work weapon.

I read a lot a crap on this forum against the 556 and that's fine with me because it's your loss, not mine.  But for those lurking wondering where to spend your hard earned cash, the 556 is a very very hard core working-man's rifle.  It won't drive bullets into the same hole at 100 yards the way a fine tuned AR will, but it can be MOA with the right ammo, and dispatch things out there considering it's 16 inch barrel.  Mine loves the 69 smk, and I'm working on the Hornady triple shock 70s now.  Would like to say more in praise of the 556, but lunch is ready

Best I can tell the arguements against the SIG556 vs. the 550/1/2 all come down to this....looks.

People wanted cheap 550s, not a new rifle.  Alot of Walter Mitty types wanted be able to "Vogue" in the mirror and at the range with their super "leet" 550.  

Same thing about the SCAR vs the 556, it's all about looks.  There are no real world functionality data (I mean warfighting data, not Billy Bob at the range with 200 rounds of Wolf ammo data) on either rifle, but the SCAR is "better" because ....because ..... it .... looks... cooler.

The SCAR is being tested for military service, so I would imagine the data will soon be available.
 
  I have had the chance to fire the 556, and It was accurate and the weight didnt bother me at all..........I even like the fact that it uses M-16 mags, which I felt was a great change to the rifle. The only thing about it that I would have changed is the stock........I was looking forward to a folder, and it seems that SIG is probably going to accomodate us with the 556 Commando.......as for sights, Aurora will take care of that when they release their diopters.
   
 I am glad that the guys who have the 556 are pleased with it. It wasnt what I wanted at the time, but I dont intentionally dog it. My friend loves his, and that's good. I am willing to give SIG time to see what they come out with before I spend my money on my next and most likely last EBR
   
What is wrong with wanting a 550?      

Quoted: Best I can tell the arguements against the SIG556 vs. the 550/1/2 all come down to this....looks. People wanted cheap 550s, not a new rifle.  Alot of Walter Mitty types wanted be able to "Vogue" in the mirror and at the range with their super "leet" 550.   Same thing about the SCAR vs the 556, it's all about looks.  There are no real world functionality data (I mean warfighting data, not Billy Bob at the range with 200 rounds of Wolf ammo data) on either rifle, but the SCAR is "better" because ....because ..... it .... looks... cooler.

What you guys want one of these

I have fired the SCAR, G-36 and HK 416 extensively.  All are great guns.  That being said I use a 551.  It is the Rolls Royce.  The mags are more than an AR mag, but who cares they are a superior mag in every way.  I just ground off the connectors very carefully on most of my mags to fit my mag pouches, no biggy.  The fit and finish are the best of this type of rifle I have ever seen.  It is accurate, on par with a good AR, which is good as ARs are accurate with not piston system rattling around over the barrel.  I have about 15K through mine + or - and have NEVER had malfucntion.  I can not say that about any other gun I have used.  The 556 is a poor red headed step cousin to the SIG (Swiss) made guns.

It does have a few problems that could be improved.

1.  You can assemble the gas system incorrectly, it goes in the gun but you only have a single shot. You should never be able to assemble a weapon incorrectly.  Bad idea.

2.  The factoty handguards are lame.  After 200-300 rounds they heat up badly as they have no metal heat shield.  I use a B&T rail.

3.  The 551 flash hider is a machined part of the barrel.  It should be threaded to allow the use of different muzzle devices tha would allow the use of a can.

4.  The folding stock is not adjustabe for pull.  Does not bother me as I have monkey arms, but little guys with body armor on, forget it.  They had a side folding prototype that I saw with and M4 stock on the folder, great idea that never came around.

Just my input.  be safe all.

Quoted: no, just curious what does the 550 do better then the 556?

It comes with a pair of special shoes that allow the, "operator" to climb walls with ease and a free bottle of those pecker sweller pills from late night TV.  

Quoted: They had a side folding prototype that I saw with and M4 stock on the folder, great idea that never came around. Just my input.  be safe all.

You mean like this:

Quoted: then what is more reliable then a an hk or Pmag?  what other mag can you run over with a full size mag and do a full auto dump with no issus. show me another mag that can accomplish that in great supply at a realistic price

in 5.56:

HK33/93 mags
Bulgarian/Polish 5.56 AK mags
Valmet 5.56 mags
Galil mags

Read Larry Vickers' comments on the HK mags (they have weak springs that wear out rapidly). Consider that the PMAGs have been recalled 3 or 4 times already.

Neither one is the standard of reliability for mags, even M16 mags, by any stretch of the imagination.

The ONLY REASON that the SCAR uses the M16 magazine design is because the M16 mag is a NATO standard item.

The M16 mag is utterly craptastic. It's responsible for more malfunctions and problems than any other part of the M16/AR15 system.

Quoted: Quoted: They had a side folding prototype that I saw with and M4 stock on the folder, great idea that never came around. Just my input.  be safe all. You mean like this: i22.tinypic.com/2ba046.jpg i21.tinypic.com/5ogpky.jpg

Might this be the big project you've been working on?

Looks good! I like that

Quoted: Quoted: They had a side folding prototype that I saw with and M4 stock on the folder, great idea that never came around. Just my input.  be safe all. You mean like this: i22.tinypic.com/2ba046.jpg i21.tinypic.com/5ogpky.jpg

Quoted: What you guys want one of these img210.imageshack.us/img210/8803/sig55001eu0.jpg</a>

I have both of those

They really are impressive weapons.

:)

Michele

Quoted: Quoted: What you guys want one of these img210.imageshack.us/img210/8803/sig55001eu0.jpg</a> I have both of those They really are impressive weapons. :) Michele i22.tinypic.com/21cdnjo.jpg

How/where did you get those beauties, and how can I get one?

Quoted: no, just curious what does the 550 do better then the 556?

Well it weighs more. A lot more. A 5.56mm rifle really NEEDS that extra weight, you know, for all that recoil.

And the 550 reloads SLOWER than a Sig 556. That's a plus.

Don't forget the mags cost more.

And they are not made here. Only one source for them (overseas).

But Presidents NEVER change import regulations on a whim -  certianly not democrats. And not for things like hi-cap mags.  So there will always be 550 mags for sale here, right?

Screw the 550.

We HAVE the better Sig. Its called a 556.

Quoted: Well it weighs more. A lot more. A 5.56mm rifle really NEEDS that extra weight, you know, for all that recoil.

Comparing apples to apples (both 16" barrels):
SIG 556: 7.8lbs.
SG551: 7.7 lbs.

And the 550 reloads SLOWER than a Sig 556. That's a plus.

Thats a training issue.

Don't forget the mags cost more. And they are not made here. Only one source for them (overseas).

Cost is not a factor for some folks. If the rifle were available, I'm guessing the mags would be as well; or someone would make them, much like they have the Saiga mags. I don't see those gathering dust on the shelves at their price point.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What you guys want one of these img210.imageshack.us/img210/8803/sig55001eu0.jpg</a> I have both of those They really are impressive weapons. :) Michele i22.tinypic.com/21cdnjo.jpg How/where did you get those beauties, and how can I get one?

You have to be an FFL/SOT
I had to get a demo letter.
I had to get a special import license.
I had to jump through a lot of hoops set forth by Sig.

Quoted: Might this be the big project you've been working on?

No, I bought that adapter from Kel at Gemtech a few years ago. The other project is not mine....am just providing consultation/input.  It is still in progress and will be sweet when it is finally released.