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Posted: 12/8/2001 7:29:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2001 7:25:07 AM EDT by guns762]
Rant mode on, sorry.

I was out shooting my Russian SKS yesterday(1st time in a while), and I'm pissed! The trigger on that thing is not the best in the world, but it is smooth, consistent, relatively light and a damn sight better than that piece of garbage that comes standard with the AR-15. Why does the AR-15 standard milspec trigger have to be so @#$%^& bad! I have been wanting to upgrade the damn thing since I got my rifle, just haven't had the money, or something always comes up at the end of the month to stop me(like Christmas)! So I'm ranting! You would think that the military would have designed a safe reasonable trigger, that isn't like pulling teeth. Hell, everybody else does! The AR's trigger is the crappiest I have ever had to pull on any gun, period(this includes a Hopkins & Allen .32 Safety Police with @12# monster). Everything else on the rifle is as close to perfect as can be made, so why, oh why isn't the trigger! AAAHHHHHHHHHH!

rant mode off, thank you.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 7:32:54 AM EDT
Your AR milspec trigger is so flippin bad because it's milspec.
You might consider having a local gunsmith do a little work on that trigger before you change triggers.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 7:38:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2001 8:46:40 AM EDT by guns762]

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Your AR milspec trigger is so flippin bad because it's milspec.
You might consider having a local gunsmith do a little work on that trigger before you change triggers.

I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!!!!! THAT'S THE F@#$%^&* POINT!!! Even the Russians came up with better triggers for the clubs they call rifles!(not that I don't love clubs)

edited because I can't spell, type, or edit when I'm in rant mode.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 10:02:35 AM EDT
The main reason is the AR has a single stage trigger, unlike previous military rifles. Therefore more pull weight is used to reduce ND's. It's a saftey thing. It is gritty and horrible because it is milspec (remember: your rifle is made by the lowest bidder .)
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 12:32:42 PM EDT
It was understanding that the early M-16s were equiped with a good 2-stage trigger.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 12:34:21 PM EDT
I have noticed that AR triggers and hammers will greatly vary. You could take one horrible overtravel/excessive takeup ridden trigger from one gun, put it in another and the pull is just fine.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 1:01:13 PM EDT
There are a lot of after market triggers that feel a lot better and could be put into standard ARs. There is just one little glitch. They don't lend themselves to a select fire mode very well. Your "mil spec" trigger is just the M16 parts adapted to prevent select fire conversion.
Link Posted: 12/8/2001 1:04:50 PM EDT
The trigger on my new (I've only shot 350 rounds through it so far) Bushmaster AK Shorty is awful. It's heavy and has lots of creep. I would order a Jewell trigger for it today except for the fact that I haven't the vaguest idea how to install and adjust the damn thing and I doubt if there are any so-called gunsmiths around here who know how to it. Plus, I don't like the idea of having to ship the lower off to get the work done by someone who is qualified. If there is anyone here in the Pittsburgh area (I live 80 mi. south of Pittsburgh) who can do it, I'll hand deliver it.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 11:42:38 AM EDT
Good triggers are 50/50 thing you get one or you dont.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 12:19:20 PM EDT
1. Milspec has little to do with it. All my AR's minus one have a "mil-spec" trigger. 1 Bushy, 1 RRA, one Olympic, one Colt.

Two SUCK, two are SWEET. Luck of the draw, my friend. It has to do with the grinding job on the surfaces, the strength of the hammer spring, and luck.

2. You CAN do something about it. A good flat sharpening stone, and stone the surfaces on the trigger bar. Go easy! This will take out the gritty-ness, and smooth them up. I have done this to two of mine, and it has helped tremendously. I have been using CLP as a lube, but many others have recommended NECO MolySlide on engagement surfaces. I am going to try this soon.

3. I went with a Rock River 2 stage on my Varmint rig. GAWD is it SWEET! No gunsmith needed, no adjustments. Just pop it in (5 minutes) and go. For anyone wanting a do-it-yourself no nonsense simple upgrade for dummies, I HIGHLY recommend this trigger. Oh, did I mention it's only $85 from www.sableco.net

Personally, I like the heavier triggers on my non-competition M4 type rifles. I feel they are safer, and do the job just fine. I just touch them up a little.

Your AR must be exceptionally bad, because the AK47, (yes, every single one I have ever shot on MANY rifles) just absolutely SUCK. There is no "break" Just more of a single stage of nothing but creep, until the hammer "slips" off the trigger bar. I'll take a default AR trigger any day.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 12:58:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 3:46:30 PM EDT
save all the head aches an buy a Rock River two stage trigger.....$120.00 from the cute blond (ASA)at the Reno Gun Show....GRRRRR!.Trigger creeps a little than a SNAP!.I am glad both my AR's have these triggers an if you have a chance try one there is no comparison(save the mil-spec for parts bin).good luck an Scouts Out!
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 4:04:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 6:31:10 PM EDT
If someone is looking for the most durable aftermarket trigger, what is recommended?

Let's say that the rifle should have a reasonably defensible trigger pull (probably 4 pounds?) as it may be kept for home defense.

And by durable I mean one that an Army Ranger could pop in his rifle and use throughout a combat tour.

Is there anything out there? Durability is my primary issue. Should I simply smooth up my milspec trigger?

Link Posted: 12/9/2001 10:09:21 PM EDT
I would have to agree with the statments above.
As I pull out my Bushy and cock the handle back, I then pull my trigger.

There's at the most 1/4 inch takeup, and it feels pretty smooth! It could be lighter but its not gritty at all.
I guess I lucked out.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 11:40:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:11:46 AM EDT
The post made me take out my Snake XM15-E2S an try the trigger again. I thought it was crappy, but I was comparing it to my Armalite NM with 2-stage. I don't like how heavy it is, but it doesn't creep. Sweeze it hard, seems like 4 times the pressure of the NM, and it breaks clean. Sucks of the bench for taget shooting, but I guess in a firefight I would care. Also, I was under the impression that AR triggers should not be stoned, Could lead to them going auto over time. Someone straighten me out on this??
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:16:46 AM EDT
My Bushmaster trigger was 9 pounds and gritty. I followed these instructions, lowered it to 6 pounds (Mil-Spec is 5.5-9.5 pounds) and got rid of all the grit:

Link Posted: 12/10/2001 6:59:29 PM EDT
Thanks for the thread, I'll try again to smooth it out. I did very little the first time, trying to smooth it out. Maybe not enough?

I do want to get the RRA trigger, just can't afford it right now, surprise! My wife also just took a 1/3pay cut today-that will help. At least now she will be happy, I hope. Broke, but happy.

I still say the design could be better. That SKS trigger has such a smooth two stage trigger its scary. Even the cheap Paratrooper Chinese SKS has a relatively good two stage pull. I have gotten used to the AR's trigger off the bench. I can shoot sub 1" groups at 100yds off a bench. It's the off hand shooting where I really find it offensive. The heaviness, creep, grit, make it near impossible for me to keep it on target when it breaks. Well off to disassemble.....
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:17:39 PM EDT
flipping? dude we all school girls here lmao
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:54:35 PM EDT
Something that I do that helps tremendously is to polish the hammer notch and sear with a small buffing pad (from Sears or wherever) mounted in a die grinder, or a drill if that's all you have. I use the black rouge. This operation does not change the angles, nor does it grind through the heat treated surface of the parts. I read about this here I think. This will take the gritty feeling out of the trigger. It doesn't take much to get a nice mirror finish on the parts.
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 12:19:35 AM EDT
Unless you're gonna shoot off the bench, why bother? The heavier pull is probably a good thing. If all you wanna do is make dime size holes at 100 yards, the JP trigger is pretty damn sweet.
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 11:30:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By urodoji:
Unless you're gonna shoot off the bench, why bother? The heavier pull is probably a good thing. If all you wanna do is make dime size holes at 100 yards, the JP trigger is pretty damn sweet.

Like I said in my above post, it's the off hand shots that I find the trigger most aggrivating. Off the bench, I can keep the rifle pretty steady, during the battle, that my rifle thinks is a trigger pull. I have done all that you guys have suggested. I will not say that the pull is "gritty", just heavy, and lots of creep. Still "flippin" bad! That's for you Jander 100.
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 5:13:17 PM EDT
What type of stone do I need to do the trigger job from The Maryland AR15 Shooter's Site (communities.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/smoothenthetriggerpull.msnw)?

Are there any tips or helpful hints that I should know?

The only specific question I have at this point is whether it matters which direction you stone the hammer/sear surfaces. Does it make any difference whether you go from left to right (looking at the assemble rifle from above the carry handle) or from front to rear? I would think that because the sear and hammer engage in a front to rear manner and not side to side that you should move the stone from front to rear so whatever small abrasion marks result run in the same direction as the travel of the parts. Seems that would be smoother than having the parts move "across" the "grain" of the polishing.

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