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Posted: 5/12/2007 3:48:10 PM EDT
I know they have there place in CQCombat, but geeeze.  Every time I talk with any law enforcement friends its MP5 this and MP5 that.  As a rep for a SOT business we have 2 and I find them very boring and way over priced in the NFA world!  Yes, they are well build and they look nice, they're rare (transferables), but compared too even a 20" M-16 I do not find them "cool".  THey are neat to start women out shooting full auto on but thats about it in my opnion........so enlighten me why are they so sought after?
I had one guy tell me he'd rather shoot one than a 1919????  I questioned him had he ever shot a 1919!
A 5.56 has a lot more distance than a 9mm even in a 7.5" barrel.  Other than over penetration by the 5.56 platform a decision made by folks in the department that obviosly know a little something, I can't see why anyone would go with the MP5 9mm.  THe department only giving access to MP5s would explain the stron "following" for an weapon.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 5:25:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Uh, in the AR forum?   Oh and MP-5s are the suck, most of em are worn out and they don't make em anymore.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 5:48:18 PM EDT
[#2]
They were the gold standard in SMGs for a long time.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 5:49:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Why do people post in the wrong forum?
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 5:56:44 PM EDT
[#4]
They are one of the finest-if not THE SMG that was the premier weapon of any SWAT team in the world.  Closed bolt, accurate, reliable, stable, etc.  One of the few subguns that could make easy 100 yard hits.  Benchmark stuff in the 1980/90's and still just as deadly in the hands that are trained...light and concealable as well.  Little muzzle blast indoors along with it being more compact than a 10.5 M4 give it a lot of advantage.

If the M4 was in 9mm, I'd choose the MP5 hands down.  

The only advantage the M4 has over the MP5 is the 5.56 cartridge...
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 5:57:45 PM EDT
[#5]
If your ass is on the line NOTHING IS BETTER!!!!


Quoted:
Uh, in the AR forum?   Oh and MP-5s are the suck, most of em are worn out and they don't make em anymore.


Worn out?? I've NEVER seen a worn out MP-5! I've seen ones that look like total crap but they still run.

PursuitSS
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 6:01:52 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
If your ass is on the line NOTHING IS BETTER!!!!


Quoted:
Uh, in the AR forum?   Oh and MP-5s are the suck, most of em are worn out and they don't make em anymore.


Worn out?? I've NEVER seen a worn out MP-5! I've seen ones that look like total crap but they still run.

PursuitSS
I've fired 6 differenet ones that were worn out.  2 were FA rentals. 3 were owned by various friends of mine who while taking good care of them, have shot the shit out of them.  the last one of LRPD swats before they got rid of them and their M4's to get sigs.  All worn out junk.  I love the ergonomics of them,  but give me an M4 any day of the week.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 6:52:09 PM EDT
[#7]










What's not to like. Too bad we can't own one. The only time I get to use one is in Raven Shield.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 6:53:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Worn out how?


What was wrong with them?
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 6:56:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Reliability, handling, performance, compatibility with pistol ammo and ease of suppression maybe?  I don't know, maybe some other reasons.


ETA:
I've shot a 'K' and loved it.  My ex-wife prefered the UZI
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 6:59:23 PM EDT
[#10]
I REALY want one....
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 7:00:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Have you ever shot one?

-X
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 7:13:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Paging SteyrAug to show off his collection...
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 7:22:02 PM EDT
[#13]
I work for a AR maker/seller and I have had the opportunity to work and sell to several large police SRT/SWAT  team members.  we have taken ALL of the Mp5's they have for trade on M4 style weapons.  They reported that "we are sick of dealing with HK they have shitty customer service"  They report they love the ability to get parts and service very rapidly on the new M4 and they cost much less and therefore they can get much more for the money (lights,lasers,optics,armor,etc).  The two teams I am thinking of have given up 50 or so mp5's for AR type weapons. They are using a 40gr HP load in a 10.5 inch  gun for entry and 75gr loads in a 14.5 trunk gun...   The officers reported a movement in Arizona to replace HK mp5 type weapons with AR/M4 type weapons...   2cents :)
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 7:27:15 PM EDT
[#14]
For CQB the MP-5 is a fine weapon.  However, in a situation where you need more range, having a larger caliber is advantageous.  I've shot an HK MP-5SD and it was a truely an amazing weapon in terms of accuracy and controlabilty.  If I won the lottery or got some other sort of large cash settlement, I'd pay the $13K and get one for myself!
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 7:36:46 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
Worn out how?


What was wrong with them?
Just shot out. Worn parts, springs, etc etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine weapon with great ergonomics.  It's just with HK being the dicks they are, and with them not being made anymore and it being harder to get parts, I'd much rather have my M4
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 7:55:11 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm saving for one right now.  Just so I don't get flamed, I'm working on funds for a new custom AR too!


Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:00:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Chiefly because they look awesome, are extremely well made and are very fun to shoot, perhaps.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:06:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Hey Dusty, I don't know where you get the info that they don't make them anymore, perhaps I am behind the times.  I (the department) recently got 6 new ones, 4 are SEF A3s and 2 are SEF SDs.  If you are doing anything in a house, with the overpenetration of the 223, what is not to love about the MP5?  They run very well, and even with the SEF group you can push doubles easily.  I guess I have about 50K rounds through them, and was at a competition without an AR at one point and used my MP out to 100 with no issues.  They are probably the most fun SMG to shoot, are reliable, and accurate...  If I was working in a rural setting where 100+ yards was a recurring probability, I would select a nice AR or a bolt gun, but for working in close, nothing better.

Govt pricing, we don't pay that much for them.

On the other hand, H&K does treat everyone like crap and replacement parts are a PITA of the worst kind.

lol, and hmmm I guess the MP5 forum was busy?
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:17:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Because they fuckin' rock thats why!

Play with a Class III onr and you'll agree
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:20:23 PM EDT
[#20]
We have 5 of them on our SWAT team, the guys love them for the ease of use and how easy they are to shoot accurately.

I carry a commando when I can instead of the MP because I like the 5.56 round much better than the 9mm if I'm going to be carrying a long gun (ok, longer than a pistol)

Honestly, I can't think of anything WRONG with an MP5, just based off of the gun itself, once again, cost not being an issue because I didn't have to pay for it.

But I would choose an AR platform over the MP5 personally.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:26:17 PM EDT
[#21]
HK STILL MAKES THE MP5.  THANK YOU.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:33:34 PM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:
Little muzzle blast indoors along with it being more compact than a 10.5 M4 give it a lot of advantage.


Uhh... That's why most, if not all of the Military units have replaced there MP5's with M4's or 10.5" AR variants. There is also a huge movement towards those two platforms with LE SWAT teams. I do not know of a SWAT team around me that still uses MP5's.

Muzzle blast is a moot point.... there's those things called comtacs and suppressors.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:35:42 PM EDT
[#23]
I've seen quite a few, both semi- and full-auto, original HK and clone. Most of them DONT RUN WORTH A SHIT.

Last night I saw a 100% genuine, made-in-Germany, full-auto HK MP5 malfunction in the standard MP5 manner (empty case in the trigger mechanism) - the poor guy had to disassemble the gun on the firing line before I let him leave the stage. ROF in full-auto is too high also... very difficult to pull singles. Lastly, closed-bolt is NOT optimal in full auto, as the recoil is way less controllable when compared to an open-bolt advanced primer ignition subgun (e.g. Uzi).

The semi-auto makes even less sense. Little more terminal effectiveness than a pistol, very heavy, piss-poor ergonomics. About all it has going for it is that its the most accurate way there is to deliver an underpowered, marginally effective bullet on target. Total waste of time if the BG is wearing a vest too.

There is a reason why SWAT teams all over the US are migrating away from the MP5 and to the AR carbine. The AR is half the price too.

As mentioned above, the HK is GREAT for posing at the range... the "WOW - thats cool" factor is strong with the MP5. If you have a small penis and $3-15K to waste, then an HK is for you.






[Just joking about the small manhood thing ]
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:37:25 PM EDT
[#24]
I recently attended Federal Firearms Instructor Training where I had the opportunity to train with both the MP5 and the Colt SMG.  If I had to choose between the MP5 or the AR platform, I would definately choose the MP5, no contest.  It was simply a more proficient weapon in every way and a hell of alot of fun to shoot.  Now, obviously the 9mm isn't designed to be a long range round (in excess of 100 yards), so in distance shooting situations the 5.56 is the only sensible choice.  If I had 13k burning a hole in my pocket, I wouldn't hesitate in laying it down for an MP5 (great hog hunting stick).
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:42:00 PM EDT
[#25]
yes, the MP5 is over priced


and yes, H&K has bad customer service.  But the MP5 is one of the best SMGs ever made. it's light, accurate, reliable and ergonomic. it has many pluses and very few minuses.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 8:45:19 PM EDT
[#26]
My ARMP5SD with an Identity crisis


Sometimes you just cant articulate lust
The MP5 Just "turns my crank"
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:02:02 PM EDT
[#27]
MP5 is the standard by which all others are measured.


You simply get get any better for CQB/CQC.  Though, I would opt for the FBI/.40 cal version...just for a little added punch.


And you are dead wrong about HK not making them anymore.  They are still produced by HK.

Some of you need to do some homework before running your lips.

Visit....  HKpro.com

HKPRO
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:06:09 PM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:
yes, the MP5 is over priced

and yes, H&K has bad customer service

but the MP5 is one of the best SMGs ever made. it's light, accurate, reliable and ergonomic. it has many pluses and very few minuses.

Was on a tactical team for 5 years, had MP5SDs and M4s. For interior work the SD shined above the M4s because of the can (bullet impact is louder than the report), and had a shorter OAL .As for everything else I'd take an M4. Stock adjustability-not just collapse (allows fitting to individual shooter), Ft. Lbs of energy delivered (using proper round to prevent over penetration=TAP), accuracy, adaptability to situation (rails allow a lot of flexibility in configuration), and, as mentioned, availability of parts.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:06:28 PM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
I've seen quite a few, both semi- and full-auto, original HK and clone. Most of them DONT RUN WORTH A SHIT.

Last night I saw a 100% genuine, made-in-Germany, full-auto HK MP5 malfunction in the standard MP5 manner (empty case in the trigger mechanism) - the poor guy had to disassemble the gun on the firing line before I let him leave the stage. ROF in full-auto is too high also... very difficult to pull singles. Lastly, closed-bolt is NOT optimal in full auto, as the recoil is way less controllable when compared to an open-bolt advanced primer ignition subgun (e.g. Uzi).

The semi-auto makes even less sense. Little more terminal effectiveness than a pistol, very heavy, piss-poor ergonomics. About all it has going for it is that its the most accurate way there is to deliver an underpowered, marginally effective bullet on target. Total waste of time if the BG is wearing a vest too.

There is a reason why SWAT teams all over the US are migrating away from the MP5 and to the AR carbine. The AR is half the price too.

As mentioned above, the HK is GREAT for posing at the range... the "WOW - thats cool" factor is strong with the MP5. If you have a small penis and $3-15K to waste, then an HK is for you.






[Just joking about the small manhood thing ]





A very unique way of putting it!!!  

I also have no use for an SMG in today's world.  Back in the day when K98s and Garands ruled the battlefield, SMGs absolutely had their place.  Today, hell no...  A similar-sized 5.56 shorty packs multiple times the wallop at triple the range.  These guys are all braggin about taking shots "out to past 100 meters"     What the hell are they shooting at?  Naked pigmies in the open?  20 pound bald rats?  I once saw a guy at the circus catch a 9mm in his teeth at that range!!  Ok, bullshit, but my meaning is clear....

Overpenetation with 5.56?  Who gives a shit.... I know where my guys are and they're not on the other side of the wall behind my target.  Screw anyone else that may be there.

If you can't or shouldn't do it  for whatever reason with a modern rifle-cartridge platform like the M4 with mission-appropriate barrel length, then reach for your .45 Auto pistol.  Either way you're better off than with that overpriced (even in non-transferable terms) Kraut gun.

If you absolutely, positively, MUST have an SMG, then please be a man and pony up for a 1921 Thompson.  There is damn near no sutuation that develops within 100 meters that a 100 round drum full of .45 Auto delivered at close to 1,000 RPM can't tilt in your favor.







Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:10:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Because the HK MP5 is the finest SMG ever made thats why, but I'm not biased...heres mine

It produces amazing accuracy out to and passed 100 yards and with a Suppressor and 147g HP's the coyotes don't even know where your at, his buddy that came in with him just trying to figure out why he's flopping around on the ground and then...........lights out for the buddy too
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:25:08 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If your ass is on the line NOTHING IS BETTER!!!!


Quoted:
Uh, in the AR forum?   Oh and MP-5s are the suck, most of em are worn out and they don't make em anymore.


Worn out?? I've NEVER seen a worn out MP-5! I've seen ones that look like total crap but they still run.

PursuitSS
I've fired 6 differenet ones that were worn out.  2 were FA rentals. 3 were owned by various friends of mine who while taking good care of them, have shot the shit out of them.  the last one of LRPD swats before they got rid of them and their M4's to get sigs.  All worn out junk.  I love the ergonomics of them,  but give me an M4 any day of the week.


Ever heard of Kevin Dockery? He documented several training MP-5's used by NASA. One had around 550,000 rounds through it! My wife fired over 100,000 rounds through hers when she was shooting SMG competition, guess what.............ZERO firearm related malfunctions. Several ammo related malfunctions, but none because of the MP-5.

Is HK a bunch of jerks..............HELL YES!!!! During the "Assault Weapons Ban" I called Nancy D..... at HK LE sales division and wanted to order ten 30 rd mags for my MP-5. She looked up our Department and stated "We don't show you having MP-5's!" I informed her we didn't obtain them through HK, she then stated "Well I guess you won't be getting magazines through HK either!"

Unless you've LIVED with an MP-5 you will never understand how much you NEED one when you're taking a door down at 03:00. Been there, done that!

PursuitSS
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:44:31 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
I've seen quite a few, both semi- and full-auto, original HK and clone. Most of them DONT RUN WORTH A SHIT.

Last night I saw a 100% genuine, made-in-Germany, full-auto HK MP5 malfunction in the standard MP5 manner (empty case in the trigger mechanism) - the poor guy had to disassemble the gun on the firing line before I let him leave the stage. ROF in full-auto is too high also... very difficult to pull singles. Lastly, closed-bolt is NOT optimal in full auto, as the recoil is way less controllable when compared to an open-bolt advanced primer ignition subgun (e.g. Uzi).

The semi-auto makes even less sense. Little more terminal effectiveness than a pistol, very heavy, piss-poor ergonomics. About all it has going for it is that its the most accurate way there is to deliver an underpowered, marginally effective bullet on target. Total waste of time if the BG is wearing a vest too.

There is a reason why SWAT teams all over the US are migrating away from the MP5 and to the AR carbine. The AR is half the price too.

As mentioned above, the HK is GREAT for posing at the range... the "WOW - thats cool" factor is strong with the MP5. If you have a small penis and $3-15K to waste, then an HK is for you.






[Just joking about the small manhood thing ]


You are a friggin' moron.

Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:53:19 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:


What's not to like. Too bad we can't own one. The only time I get to use one is in Raven Shield.
you most certainly can own one...  if you have the money.  what are they running now?  14-18k?

if you really want to try one out, look for local ranges that rent MG's.  i've rented an MP5 from one of the local ranges on a couple of occasions.  it will probably be fairly expensive, but it's worth it just to try it out.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 9:53:35 PM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
Lastly, closed-bolt is NOT optimal in full auto, as the recoil is way less controllable when compared to an open-bolt advanced primer ignition subgun (e.g. Uzi).

The semi-auto makes even less sense. Little more terminal effectiveness than a pistol, very heavy, piss-poor ergonomics. About all it has going for it is that its the most accurate way there is to deliver an underpowered, marginally effective bullet on target. Total waste of time if the BG is wearing a vest too.

[Just joking about the small manhood thing ]


HUH???? TRY and make a head shot at thirty yards in a hostage situation with a frickin Uzi open bolt POS!  And BTW, HK does NOT build a semi auto MP-5, never did never will. They did build the HK-94 and they do build the SF (FBI) trigger group but the weapon is still a machine gun no matter what trigger group it has. And as to your comment on "an underpowered, marginally effective bullet", on a head shot with a Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+ I don't think the guy is going to jail................just a body bag!

PursuitSS

Link Posted: 5/11/2007 10:03:40 PM EDT
[#35]
They are the $**t is a CQB situation. I have AR's and carry one daily at work, but if given a choice between the AR and an MP5 going in to a house, I pick the MP5. I have trained with both and have qualified with both, but prefer the MP5 for CQB.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 10:36:32 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
Because the HK MP5 is the finest SMG ever made thats why, but I'm not biased...heres mine
i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/csfarms/HK001.jpg
It produces amazing accuracy out to and passed 100 yards and with a Suppressor and 147g HP's the coyotes don't even know where your at, his buddy that came in with him just trying to figure out why he's flopping around on the ground and then...........lights out for the buddy too


I love that pic. MP5 + USP + Knights = Cool Ass Dude!

Can I borrow pic for my desktop?  sorry...taken!
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 11:14:22 PM EDT
[#37]
since the advent of the 5.56mm carbine and especially the 5.56mm sub-carbine, the pistol cal submachine gun is outclassed in most of today's social encounters, with the most noteable ones being badguys with armor and longer ranges than pure CQB.

however the still fill niche roles very well, like 100% indoor CQB environments, when small size is an absolute must, etc. they also supress much better than rifle caliber weapons for whatever missions require supressed fire.

i dare someone to find as reliable a weapon as a German, Factory, HK MP5 that has baseline maintainence. once we veer off to special weapons clones, pakistani builds, etc, that is another entire ballgame.

you are mis-informed to say the least if you think the MP5 is no longer in production. there is a steady stream of MP5 orders to HK and will be for the foreseeable future. HK would like to transition customers to the UMP series but the orders for the MP5 keep coming in.

the MP5 is the subgun by which all others are measured and none have come close so far.
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 11:37:13 PM EDT
[#38]
13gunbunny, is that a stubby knights V-grip?
Link Posted: 5/11/2007 11:40:57 PM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:
MP5 is the standard by which all others are measured.


You simply get get any better for CQB/CQC.  Though, I would opt for the FBI/.40 cal version...just for a little added punch.

They have extractor issues. And I would rather have a MK18 for CQB. So would most people who do it for real, if the recent trend holds.


Link Posted: 5/12/2007 1:40:23 AM EDT
[#40]
I have put a fair number of rounds downrange through one (my department issues them and they are quite worn now) and the only malfunction I have seen was with the Simunitions adapter installed. They are an exceptionally easy gun to shoot and shoot well. The biggest drawback is the cartridge it shoots.
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 10:40:56 AM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Because the HK MP5 is the finest SMG ever made thats why, but I'm not biased...heres mine
i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/csfarms/HK001.jpg
It produces amazing accuracy out to and passed 100 yards and with a Suppressor and 147g HP's the coyotes don't even know where your at, his buddy that came in with him just trying to figure out why he's flopping around on the ground and then...........lights out for the buddy too


I love that pic. MP5 + USP + Knights = Cool Ass Dude!

Can I borrow pic for my desktop?  sorry...taken!


Thanks! The MP5 and the USP TAC have been flawless....... Oh and BTW I didn't pay anywhere near the $18K they're bring now, I got my C3's about 8 years ago when they were selling for 2/3 of that.
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 10:50:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 10:51:20 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
If your ass is on the line NOTHING IS BETTER!!!!


Quoted:
Uh, in the AR forum?   Oh and MP-5s are the suck, most of em are worn out and they don't make em anymore.


Worn out?? I've NEVER seen a worn out MP-5! I've seen ones that look like total crap but they still run.

PursuitSS


Come shoot the rental unit at Impact Guns in Ogden, Utah--it is worn out, and I'm partially responsible!  It is the only machine gun that has ever made me seriously consider spending the $ for personal ownership.  Just my .02.
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 11:03:15 AM EDT
[#45]

MP5's a girl's gun. That's about the only reason I bother keeping mine. That and it works well to introduce new shooters to FA with the 3rd burst lower installed.

Personally I find them boring as all get out to shoot, though function has been flawless with the one exception of a failure to feed with a Beta C-Mag.

I'd much rather take an M4 into harms way.
It's almost as easy to shoot and obviously has a lot more range.
Pat
0-1-25
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 11:05:31 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:

but give me an M4 any day of the week.


And that would be an indicator that your IQ is in triple digits.
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 11:22:15 AM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:
Reliability, handling, performance, compatibility with pistol ammo and ease of suppression maybe?  I don't know, maybe some other reasons.


I'm going with the same reasons.

I'd love to own one but that'll never happen.
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 11:38:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 11:39:00 AM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:
Hey Dusty, I don't know where you get the info that they don't make them anymore, perhaps I am behind the times.  I (the department) recently got 6 new ones, 4 are SEF A3s and 2 are SEF SDs.  If you are doing anything in a house, with the overpenetration of the 223, what is not to love about the MP5?  They run very well, and even with the SEF group you can push doubles easily.  I guess I have about 50K rounds through them, and was at a competition without an AR at one point and used my MP out to 100 with no issues.  They are probably the most fun SMG to shoot, are reliable, and accurate...  If I was working in a rural setting where 100+ yards was a recurring probability, I would select a nice AR or a bolt gun, but for working in close, nothing better.

Govt pricing, we don't pay that much for them.

On the other hand, H&K does treat everyone like crap and replacement parts are a PITA of the worst kind.

lol, and hmmm I guess the MP5 forum was busy?


I love the MP5, but if you really think 5.56 overpenetrates building fodder more than when compared to 9mm, you and your department need to do some serious ballistics research and real testing instead of believing a myth
Link Posted: 5/12/2007 11:47:11 AM EDT
[#50]
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