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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/30/2002 12:42:57 PM EST
Hey guys i am building my second AR 15 right now. I have the RRA lower done and tested, now i am gonna get a 9mm upper to put on it strictly for home defense.
I am un-decided about what type of sight to use. I am kind of leaning toward a visible laser.
Also, which type of upper would be best for this? Flat top or one with a carrying handle.

thanks in advance...
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 1:02:40 PM EST
I am by no means an expert, but if you are going with a 9mm upper for the lack of overpenetration factor(through walls,etc.)you should read the ammo FAQ in the ammunition forum.
It has a lot of stuff about the .223 being very suitable for your purpose.
If you are dying to have a 9mm AR for any other reason, then disregard me.
I am sure there are others with advice on the sight issue.

Just my .02

Lee
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 1:11:11 PM EST
I have an OKO mounted on my 2001 LEGP and it seems to work really well for me.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 1:12:17 PM EST
Front tritium sight, large aperature rear, coupled with surefire tac light.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 1:19:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Front tritium sight, large aperature rear, coupled with surefire tac light.



Almost the same, PT tritium front blade and 2-dot large rear aperture. Streamlight M3 mounted at 1:30 on the handguard with a remote switch.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 1:43:02 PM EST
I suggest you take a serious look at the AO ghost ring rear sight, with an AO tritium front sight. I have an aversion to relying on batteries for self defense guns. ==Bob
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 2:00:16 PM EST
Any sight that can be used with both eyes open will be a good choice for home defense. Quick target aquisition is a must. I was interested in the Aimpoint or the Eotech holographic sight for this purpose.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 2:07:49 PM EST
I have a Trijicon Reflex, standard front site "wish I had tritium in frontsite post." And an ARMS #40 for my House AR. Skip the 9mm setup and stick with .223 for home defense.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 2:09:40 PM EST
I can see the concern with relying on the batteries in a SHTF situation.
I may go with a tritium sight of some type and use the laser as a backup.

note: this latest project of mine will fill two other purposes besides being used as a home defense gun along side my Rem 870 pump shotgun.
1) an excuse to build another AR15
2) an excuse to buy a visible laser and have
something cool to mount it on...
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 2:25:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Front tritium sight, large aperature rear, coupled with surefire tac light.



Almost the same, PT tritium front blade and 2-dot large rear aperture. Streamlight M3 mounted at 1:30 on the handguard with a remote switch.



I must agree with these two guys on this one. Before you go picking all kinds of fancy sights, lasers, grenade launchers, etc. You NEED a taclight of some kind. Here is why:

1) You are going to be moving around your home, around tight corners, opening and closing doors, checking darkened rooms because the light switch is clear on the other side.

2) You MUST identify your target before you fire. Is that a burglar with a knife/gun or just your TV in his arms? Is it even a burglar, or is it one of your teenage children sneaking in late? Is it a police officer responding to your 911 call and he found the front door pried open so he's beginning a search of your residence? Any other scenarios I may have missed.

3) With the brilliance of "White Retinal Burning Light Output" that you get from a Surefire you may be able to blind a criminal into submission. As pissed off I would be that someone broke into my house... and even though I would be legally within my rights to kill them. I'd much rather have them surrender.

So, if money is no object... go for it. Lasers are wicked cool! And hugely intimidating. I have one on my Colt M4. I also have an Aimpoint CompM, Tritium sights too. But I think my most valuable tool on that rifle is the Surefire light.

my $0.02

www.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&carfnbr=136&prrfnbr=521&sesent=0,0
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 9:43:03 PM EST
I completely agree with DarkHelmet. I keep a Glock 21 handy in my house with a bright as hell M3 light mounted on the rails. The other night I awoke to a load noise (didnt know if it came from someone inside my house or the dogs screwing around in the back yard). Needless to stay I searched my house with my G21 and M3 light and didnt find anything. The light was sure handy cause i could turn it on and off as i cleared the rooms. You dont want to be searching around your house for a flashlight if theres an scumbag inside.
My one piece of advice is if you have any weapon with a light or gadget on it, shoot it at the range with those gadgets. Some guns act different with a light mounted on it and they can cause malfunctions. My G21 required different mag followers to function reliably.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 10:24:54 PM EST
I agree with everyone else, you need a light, but I would just go with the iron sights, Unless you live in a huge mansion, I mean If you have to take a shot at someone in your house the farthest away that the will be is 20-30 feet, but illumination is a must.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 10:33:16 PM EST
Lasers, good ones anyway, are not cheap. They also aren't as fast to acquire as irons.

If you want to spend money get a SureFire M-500-A, it ain't cheap but it is cheaper than a good laser, it also allows target/threat ID, and may be able to "blind" a potential target briefly.

Also .223 may be a better choice than 9mm.

Remember OC and a portable phone can be useful too.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 12:01:23 AM EST
Ashley Outdoors....errrr...EXPRESS SIGHT SYSTEMS
www.expresssights.com/tactical_sights.html
I have the ghost ring set up on the rear (carry handle, flattop):


I have the large dot front sight post:
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 12:15:58 AM EST
I'd go with some sort of holographic dot sight. If it's home defense are you really going to be using the sights? If you do you'll want the quickest accquisition. The EO Techs are nice because you can use iron sights as back-up and sight right through it if the batteries are dead.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 1:15:22 PM EST
Another vote for the trijicon reflex.Very light weight,almost nothing to go wrong with it.If I got another one though,I would get the one with triangle instead of the 6.5moa dot.You can use the tip of the triangle for more precise work at longer ranges.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 1:20:13 PM EST
The most common and basic sight of course is the mil-spec open sights, tactical flashlight near the handguard, or something. a visible laser or c-more red dot maybe.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 1:43:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2002 1:48:39 PM EST by DarkHelmet]

Originally Posted By colklink:
Another vote for the trijicon reflex.Very light weight,almost nothing to go wrong with it.If I got another one though,I would get the one with triangle instead of the 6.5moa dot.You can use the tip of the triangle for more precise work at longer ranges.



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?ID=128930


Originally posted by: USMC03
I have owned the Reflex, Reflex II, Aimpoint ML, and Aimpoint ML2, and now I just own the Aimpoint ML2.

One night we did a warrant on a house and I was a very dark night and the house we were executing the warrant on had heavy blankets, so the house was extreemly dark. I entered a room and found a suspect in the room when I turned on my weapon mounted Surefire light, when I turned on the Surefire light and looked through my Trijicon Reflex II, I could not see the reticles in the sight. The light was bright enough to wash out the reticle and I even had the light filter attached to the front of the Reflex II and it was set on it's darkest setting.

The other problem I had with the Reflex sights and the SWANS SLEEVE mount is that the Reflex sat up higher than my Aimpoint did and when I flipped up my Back Up Iron Sight, I could not see through the sight all I could see was the bottom back portion of the Reflex sight.

I never really liked relying on batteries alone and this is why I tried to stay with the Reflex II, but the cons outweighted the pros and I ended up going back to the Aimpoint ML2 and have never looked back. The battery life in the ML2 is in the 1,000s of hours and USMC Force Recon uses the Aimpoint M2 and they are very pleased with it from everything that I've heard.

I have checked out the EOTechs and in my opinion they leave a lot to be desired.

As far as range goes with the Aimpoint ML2, the dot is 3 MOA so a 200 yards the dot is only 6" in size. I've never had any problems seeing my BUIS through my Aimpoint.

Another option you may want to consider is the new Trijicon TriPower, it's much like an Aimpoint, but is powered by tritium, fiber optics, and a battery. I checked one out extensively at the SHOT SHOW this year and I was very impressed with it.

Just my .02.



And just for emphasis again: TAC LIGHT!!!!
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 4:34:49 AM EST
Here's my home defense setup: flattop with a C-more tactical sight, trijicon front and rear sights.

I like this sight a lot: the reddot co-witnesses the iron sights, HUD/notube display and the iron sights are always right there - no folding required. Fast and accurate for me.
Link Posted: 7/3/2002 4:53:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ohaiclan:
I completely agree with DarkHelmet.



Me too, it's just hard to take a guy seriously when looking at that picture.




Link Posted: 7/3/2002 5:21:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/3/2002 5:25:46 AM EST by GLOCKshooter]
O.K., just a couple of thoughts, not necessarily gospel:

1) a two handed long barreled weapon is not ideal for a single peson trying to clear a house. May work well with a team, but you may have to open a door, etc.. A GLOCK with a lght on the rail means one hand for illumination and lead delivery.

2) 9mm is both a less potent round than .223 when it hits flesh and a more over-penetrating round when it hits a wall. That being said touching off a .223 indoors without heaing protection may scew up your hearing short and long term. Just something else to consider.

3) If you go with a red dot, etc, it is just more stuff to have to turn on. By the time you wake up, get your weapon (is it locked up?), etc., do you want to have to take another step to ready it? That's one of the knocks on electronic ear muffs for home defense.

My home defense is a GLOCK G35 .40 cal with an M6 light/laser and night sights, in a "hot box" (keypad safe)next to the bed. IF i have time I do have a set of Peltors that would be nice. Finally, I have a photon II microlight, orange beam. That goes in the moth, front upper teeth on the pressure switch. Bite down a little and you have navigation light that doesn't kill the night vision. Minimal telegraphing of position. You can talk, yell with it in, or spit it out.

If you still really want to use the AR, consider the M6 light/laser with a forward rail mount from sidearmor.


www.sidearmor.com

This lets you still use your irons (or anything else at that same height) and puts a visible laser in line with the barrel and almost same height over barrel, so you can set it to an approximate 50/200 intersect.

Get the shotgun coil remote pressure switch and mount it to either the fromt handguard or your vertical foregrip if you use one. I'm in the process of setting up this system on a preban 14.5. Of course it already hs an Aimpoint and ARMS 40 on it, and I really don't intend to use it in my house, but ...

Just some food for thought.
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