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Posted: 6/1/2017 10:00:07 PM EST
And to be clear here, the CZ Scorpion I am interested in potentially purchasing isn't the carbine, but rather the pistol. I would likely throw a brace on it at first, then maybe eventually SBR the thing and put a real stock on it. So comparing these two guns is sort of an apples and oranges thing. They certainly are very different firearms. But for me, they would end up serving basically the same role...a compact, maneuverable gun for personal defense inside the home, as well as a fun range toy. Whichever gun I ultimately end up purchasing will get a TLR-1 and a micro RDS thrown on it.

So now the question...which should I buy? I've always loved the the MP5 and have lusted for one of those since I was a kid. The CZ Scorpion visually looks like a modernized MP5. It is just a sexy weapon. OTOH, I think the CX4 Storm is pretty funky looking, certainly far from sexy. In fact, it is pretty darn fugly when you get right down to it. But the damn thing just works. And you can get versions that use Beretta 92 magazines, which would be a plus for me since I have Beretta 92 handguns in my collection. The Beretta would also be the cheaper of the two options, especially when you take into consideration you won't need to buy a brace or stock for it.

Both guns appear to be very high quality, reliable firearms. Both are within my price range. I really find lots of things to like about both of the guns. But I don't see myself buying more than one PCC/subgun wannabe. So the decision is going to come down to one or the other. Should I go with the sexier choice in the CZ or should I go with what is very likely a more practical choice for my situation and buy the Beretta? For anyone who owns either or both I'd love to hear your thoughts about the strengths and weaknesses of each.
Link Posted: 6/1/2017 10:51:39 PM EST
I have the Scorpion pistol with a brace...love it. Do a trigger job(easy) and get the extended charging handle...a red dot is also nice...lots of other after market options available.

No experience with the Storm...
Link Posted: 6/1/2017 11:27:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/1/2017 11:29:32 PM EST by bradpierson26]
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Originally Posted By CSW223:

I have the Scorpion pistol with a brace...love it. Do a trigger job(easy) and get the extended charging handle...a red dot is also nice...lots of other after market options available.

No experience with the Storm...
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All of this but mine's an SBR'd K

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Link Posted: 6/2/2017 12:04:29 AM EST
Well, they are two different animals for sure. I like the Scorpion and keep looking at them but already own a CX-4 Beretta (92 mag model) that I got many years ago. Its been a good firearm and never had an issue. The trigger is not the best but its acceptable after a very simple DIY job you can do at home in a few minutes. Its perfect for what you want, light, compact, quick and easy to point and shoot. Mine has never failed and has been very accurate.

If I didn't have a CX-4 and was trying to decide between it and the Scorpion I would be like you, very torn as to which way to go. I will say this, the CX-4 design with the magazine being inside the grip makes for a very short and compact firearm. I see no reason to think about going the SBR route as its already pretty darn compact. No additional cost or complications that comes with paying for a stamp and future concerns.

But the Scorpion has "the look" and seems reliable so its a tough call. You will likely love either one and there is not a bad choice to make here.
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 12:09:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By forever4:
Well, they are two different animals for sure. I like the Scorpion and keep looking at them but already own a CX-4 Beretta (92 mag model) that I got many years ago. Its been a good firearm and never had an issue. The trigger is not the best but its acceptable after a very simple DIY job you can do at home in a few minutes. Its perfect for what you want, light, compact, quick and easy to point and shoot. Mine has never failed and has been very accurate.

If I didn't have a CX-4 and was trying to decide between it and the Scorpion I would be like you, very torn as to which way to go. I will say this, the CX-4 design with the magazine being inside the grip makes for a very short and compact firearm. I see no reason to think about going the SBR route as its already pretty darn compact. No additional cost or complications that comes with paying for a stamp and future concerns.

But the Scorpion has "the look" and seems reliable so its a tough call. You will likely love either one and there is not a bad choice to make here.
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I bought a cx4 last week. I put 350 rounds through it and it is light, smooth, super accurate. 20 and 30 round mags. 147 HST's through a 16" barrel are pretty stout. As forever4 said it is so compact you can keep it as a rifle and all that implies.
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 12:41:49 PM EST
My dad has a Storm that takes 92 magazines.
It's light, easy to shoot, easy to manuever in tight quarters, so reliable it's boring, and very accurate with 115 gr Winchester White Box. It's a great gun.

Having said that, the aftermarket support for the Scorpion is significantly better and upgrades and different parts and easier to find than for the Storm.

That's huge in my book.

I'd go with Scorpion because of that, and I really dont think you'd go wrong with either.
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 1:18:10 PM EST
Storm is ergonomic and pleasant to shoot, with common mags with the 90 series. The CZ is cooler and has more accessorization options. Both are simple and reliable. Your choice.
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 1:31:57 PM EST
Thanks for all the opinions. If nothing else, they have confirmed I have narrowed things down to the right two candidates.

As for the CZ, I do have one other question. My only concern about the entire platform is the issue of magazines. Has the feed lip cracking problem with the factory mags been remedied yet? I don't mind polymer magazines and can live with the occasional feed lip cracking or breaking when dropped on a hard surface. But I don't think I can live with mags cracking after 6 months from nothing more than just sitting around loaded. I know a certain company is now making magazines with steel feed lips that should at least prevent the feed lips from cracking when left loaded. But I am still somewhat researching those. While they generally get pretty good reviews (from a function standpoint), I am also seeing some reports mixed in suggesting they may not function as reliably as the factory magazines.
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 5:39:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Thanks for all the opinions. If nothing else, they have confirmed I have narrowed things down to the right two candidates.

As for the CZ, I do have one other question. My only concern about the entire platform is the issue of magazines. Has the feed lip cracking problem with the factory mags been remedied yet? I don't mind polymer magazines and can live with the occasional feed lip cracking or breaking when dropped on a hard surface. But I don't think I can live with mags cracking after 6 months from nothing more than just sitting around loaded. I know a certain company is now making magazines with steel feed lips that should at least prevent the feed lips from cracking when left loaded. But I am still somewhat researching those. While they generally get pretty good reviews (from a function standpoint), I am also seeing some reports mixed in suggesting they may not function as reliably as the factory magazines.
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My CZ factory mags have not shown any signs of cracking and yes they are loaded...
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 7:33:24 PM EST
Scorpion.... {pistol}

image share
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 8:54:49 PM EST
There are metal feed lip magazines available for the Scorpion, I have a couple, but my factory mags have been gtg. I love my evo pistol.
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 9:20:17 PM EST
I have never touched the CZ. I had an early CX-4 9mm that used 92f mags. I shouldn't have sold it as it was fun to shoot, reliable and accurate.
Link Posted: 6/2/2017 9:20:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2017 2:28:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2017 2:29:42 AM EST by williamec]
I agonized over the AR9 vs Scorpion decision. I'm a Glock shooter, and the allure of being able to use the same mags for both my pcc and pistol was very strong.

But I chose the Scorpion and I'm glad I did. It's an awesome gun, and so much fun to shoot. And it has awesome aftermarket support. I like tinkering with my guns, and the ability yo set them up to my needs and tastes.

Link Posted: 6/3/2017 2:55:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2017 3:33:56 AM EST
I have both a CX4 and a Scorpion.  I like the way the CX4 fits me better than the Scorpion, but there is less of aftermarket following for the CX4 and the parts that are available are quite expensive.  The Scorpion is okay for me nothing much about it that excites me, but there are more and cheaper aftermarkets parts for it.  The Scorpion is the easier route to take if you planning to go SBR.  
Link Posted: 6/3/2017 11:08:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By peligro113:
I have both a CX4 and a Scorpion.  I like the way the CX4 fits me better than the Scorpion, but there is less of aftermarket following for the CX4 and the parts that are available are quite expensive.  The Scorpion is okay for me nothing much about it that excites me, but there are more and cheaper aftermarkets parts for it.  The Scorpion is the easier route to take if you planning to go SBR.  
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Good point but another way to look at this is: What if you don't plan on doing an SBR or making lots of changes to the firearm? I have used my CX4 for over ten years just as it came out of the box (with me doing the DIY trigger job). I added a decent red dot and some extra magazines and have found the rifle to be all I need to fill a certain usage. As has been pointed out, its so compact the way it is many find no need to do an SBR with the cost that goes with that.

But I do understand people who like to tinker and modify. Heck, I have seven 9mm PPC's to play with (and have sold others that weren't as fun) so I have lots of toys. We all have different favorites and hobbies and each person has to consider his personal goals and dreams. I nearly bought a CZ when they came out as I have several other CZ firearms and love them all. But the mad rush made the Scorpion a bit harder to find a good deal on. Maybe someday the market on them will cool down and I can find one at a fair price. But personally I want a carbine and don't care about an SBR. However, YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 8:46:09 AM EST
Based on what you plan to do if you get the Scorpion I'd go with it, definitely will for with your intended use.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 9:42:00 AM EST
I have both and shoot the Scorpion more often because I can throw a can on it. The Beretta is also a nice gun but man does the trigger suck and you will probably want to either send it off for modification or do it yourself. I also found the Scorpion mags way easier to load than the ones for the Beretta, at least in regards to the extended Beretta mags.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 7:29:45 PM EST
I used to own the Storm and currently own a Scorpion pistol. Both are fun and accurate. I wasn't crazy about the top rail and using red dots on the Storm. Yes you can fold down the sights but you are still loo through the "Ears". Neither comes with a good trigger.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 10:48:39 AM EST
The Scorpion is the better option, unless you're dead-set on sharing magazines with a Beretta handgun.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 11:26:46 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Thanks for all the opinions. If nothing else, they have confirmed I have narrowed things down to the right two candidates.

As for the CZ, I do have one other question. My only concern about the entire platform is the issue of magazines. Has the feed lip cracking problem with the factory mags been remedied yet? I don't mind polymer magazines and can live with the occasional feed lip cracking or breaking when dropped on a hard surface. But I don't think I can live with mags cracking after 6 months from nothing more than just sitting around loaded. I know a certain company is now making magazines with steel feed lips that should at least prevent the feed lips from cracking when left loaded. But I am still somewhat researching those. While they generally get pretty good reviews (from a function standpoint), I am also seeing some reports mixed in suggesting they may not function as reliably as the factory magazines.
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I love my scorpion, but its weakness lies in the magazines. I had some 20's that cracked, and I sent back. Got those back, one has a tiny stress crack, and one of the new style 30's has developed a stress crack as well. I have heard a few select issues with the PGS metal lipped mags, but overall they seem to be a good option. Or you can do what I did, and buy some Uzi Pro mags (all metal, 32 round mag for ~$15-20ea) and buy adapters to put on them to run on the scorpion. The only thing I need to do is test them at the range, and epoxy the adapters to the magazine, as I had one that slipped past the alignment notch (the adapters are printed, and take a slight bit of fitting to perfect. Including the magazine catch notch, they made them tight so you can fit it to your gun, so its pretty much required to do a bit of work to them from the get go) and slide down the mag itself. Not a huge issue, but one to be aware of. It will be fine once epoxied in place.
Link Posted: 8/17/2017 1:25:27 PM EST
I've sent back 1 20rd and 1 30rd Evo mag. Annoying but the mags still worked.
I get tempted to get a CX4 but it essentially will duplicate my Evo.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 12:57:21 AM EST
the CX4 is one step above a Marlin Camp Carbine, pretty good for its day, but outclassed today.

if you want to put a can on it, the Scorpion is a way easier. Plus my buddy's scorpion sounds just as quiet as my MP5 clone.

If you want a Beretta 92 compatible carbine, get a KelTec 2000. And its already threaded for a can.
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 9:02:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Quake_Guy:
the CX4 is one step above a Marlin Camp Carbine, pretty good for its day, but outclassed today.

if you want to put a can on it, the Scorpion is a way easier. Plus my buddy's scorpion sounds just as quiet as my MP5 clone.

If you want a Beretta 92 compatible carbine, get a KelTec 2000. And its already threaded for a can.
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Times do change, that is for sure. But a Keltec Sub2k? really! I have one of those in my collection, a new model with the threaded barrel. I hardly shoot it. My CX4 is vastly nicer to shoot. The ergonomics on the Sub are just odd due to that straight line design. I only got it for the heck of it, I hardly shoot it. The CX-4 is vastly better than a Sub2k.

And as for age...its only a number. Sure seems a lot of people love their AR's and AK's and those were designed decades ago.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:39:28 PM EST
I went with the Evo and am glad I did. It's a great little firearm. I stamped mine but the brace would work just as well. They said the mag lip issue was from a bad batch of polymer early on, they say it has been fixed a long time ago and they'll switch out any mags that exhibit it. I bought mine around that time and they never did it anyway. Eventually I want a CX4 but it's mostly for novelty, if I had to do it again I still would have went with the Evo first if I could only get one.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 9:11:58 AM EST
My vote would be a zenith clone, z5k or z5p if you are buying it for the modernized mp5 look. I bought a cz scorpion back in 2015 to satisfy the mp5 itch. Love the scorpion but in the end bought a z5k and now I'm buying a Z5RS. My Z5K seems a bit smoother when shooting it. The Scorpion will always be my baby though.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 11:21:06 AM EST
You sound like me. I got my Evo first, then SBR'd it. Then got the z5p, then the z5rs, both sbr'd. I like shooting the z5rs out of all
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:27:18 PM EST
I've had a CX4 for many years now and an Evo pistol with a Shockwave for just over a year.

Both are accurate & reliable with just about any ammo.

Evo has more aftermarket option and is easier to customize, and a better host for suppression.

In a carbine to carbine comparison, the Storm is shorter overall as it's got it's magazine well in the grip. But stock length is only adjustable with spacers and I think two spacers is max, although I run mine with no spacers and it feels like a longer pull than an M4 stock fully collapsed. It's overall length is only a few inches longer than my AR pistol with a 10" barrel & shockwave brace.

The Evo is kinda bulky, feels like my Beretta ARX-160 which is a good fit for me, even if not using any angled or vertical grip. The CX4 is sleek but there's not much you can change as far as ergos go.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:51:30 PM EST
Had an Evo and now switching to B&Ts. GHB will have an APC9 and following closely behind will be a TP9 for the wife.

Evo felt like a hi point compared to the B&Ts
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:35:28 PM EST
Well that's not just the evo, everything is like crap vs B&T. B&T is the high end Luxury Mercedes v8 everything else is a 80s compact 4 cylinder. The kel-tec being a gremlin or a pacer
Link Posted: 8/25/2017 9:09:36 PM EST
I came back to see where this discussion was going. As normal I see there are a lot of opinions, which is great! There are so many good choices out there and I don't think you can go wrong. My problem is I keep adding "just one more" PCC and they are stacking up!

I will likely end up getting a CZ in the next year, just because they are cool looking. Having just bought the house a new high end stove and now the wife wants a new mattress for the bedroom I guess the EVO will wait a little longer. That's OK, I have plenty to play with in the mean time. I do love my CX-4 and have resisted some big offers on it during the panic, but a new gun every once in awhile is a good thing, isn't it?
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