Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 3/1/2009 5:44:46 AM EST
I want a servicible shooter smoothbore musket. Where can I find one for any kind of reasonable price? All of the ones I see cost what an AR15 would! I just want a good shooter that is styled somewhat historically-accurate. Thanks for any input.
Link Posted: 3/1/2009 5:47:56 AM EST
http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/flintlockmatchlocketcmuskets.html
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 2:49:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/2/2009 2:51:51 AM EST by 95thFoot]
I work with flintlock muskets. Sometimes, I shoot them eight or nine times a day. You get what you pay for.

Our former historic weapons supervisor, even after I had told him not to, a few years back bought a whole slew of Loyalist Arms muskets, because they were inexpensive. Yes, inexpensive to buy, but not to run. All broke down under less than daily use.

Soft wood, poor workmanship, soft, crummy locks, with non-interchangeable parts, and barrels made of some kind of brittle, easily rustable steel. They're guns from India, made of local woods and dyed to resemble walnut. Just wait until it rains, and the dye will run off the guns into your clothes.....and these guns are inauthentic when put next to an original, too.

One time, somebody was demonstrating one of these guns in a public program, and the gun went off in the half-cock position. Thank God nobody was downrange of the gun. At that point, it was time to take the rest of these dogs out of service.

Even after repeated attempts to gunsmith these things back into service, we now have a gun safe full of dead Loyalist Arms muskets, each one tagged with "UNSAFE- DO NOT USE". The guy who bought them for us is no longer working here- I'm sure this was part of it.....

Pedersoli Brown Besses and Charlevilles are what we mostly use, with a mix of old Japanese (Midori or Miroku) muskets. They work reliably, and repair easily, if and when they ever break down.

You get what you pay for with flintlocks, as with so many other things. I wouldn't be caught dead with a Loyalist Arms Indian-made musket- literally.



ETA: I have learned to get my muskets custom-built, using Rifle Shoppe parts kits. Not cheap, but worth every penny.

www.therifleshoppe.com
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 8:28:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
I work with flintlock muskets. Sometimes, I shoot them eight or nine times a day. You get what you pay for.

Our former historic weapons supervisor, even after I had told him not to, a few years back bought a whole slew of Loyalist Arms muskets, because they were inexpensive. Yes, inexpensive to buy, but not to run. All broke down under less than daily use.

Soft wood, poor workmanship, soft, crummy locks, with non-interchangeable parts, and barrels made of some kind of brittle, easily rustable steel. They're guns from India, made of local woods and dyed to resemble walnut. Just wait until it rains, and the dye will run off the guns into your clothes.....and these guns are inauthentic when put next to an original, too.

One time, somebody was demonstrating one of these guns in a public program, and the gun went off in the half-cock position. Thank God nobody was downrange of the gun. At that point, it was time to take the rest of these dogs out of service.

Even after repeated attempts to gunsmith these things back into service, we now have a gun safe full of dead Loyalist Arms muskets, each one tagged with "UNSAFE- DO NOT USE". The guy who bought them for us is no longer working here- I'm sure this was part of it.....

Pedersoli Brown Besses and Charlevilles are what we mostly use, with a mix of old Japanese (Midori or Miroku) muskets. They work reliably, and repair easily, if and when they ever break down.

You get what you pay for with flintlocks, as with so many other things. I wouldn't be caught dead with a Loyalist Arms Indian-made musket- literally.



ETA: I have learned to get my muskets custom-built, using Rifle Shoppe parts kits. Not cheap, but worth every penny.

www.therifleshoppe.com


...Exactly what he said.....I build them...."parts" for a build average around 6-700....last one i built for a gentleman was a basic Type C....1300.00
the days of 350.00 "Trade Guns" are long past.......
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 8:54:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By TVLL62CAL:
Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
I work with flintlock muskets. Sometimes, I shoot them eight or nine times a day. You get what you pay for.

Our former historic weapons supervisor, even after I had told him not to, a few years back bought a whole slew of Loyalist Arms muskets, because they were inexpensive. Yes, inexpensive to buy, but not to run. All broke down under less than daily use.

Soft wood, poor workmanship, soft, crummy locks, with non-interchangeable parts, and barrels made of some kind of brittle, easily rustable steel. They're guns from India, made of local woods and dyed to resemble walnut. Just wait until it rains, and the dye will run off the guns into your clothes.....and these guns are inauthentic when put next to an original, too.

One time, somebody was demonstrating one of these guns in a public program, and the gun went off in the half-cock position. Thank God nobody was downrange of the gun. At that point, it was time to take the rest of these dogs out of service.

Even after repeated attempts to gunsmith these things back into service, we now have a gun safe full of dead Loyalist Arms muskets, each one tagged with "UNSAFE- DO NOT USE". The guy who bought them for us is no longer working here- I'm sure this was part of it.....

Pedersoli Brown Besses and Charlevilles are what we mostly use, with a mix of old Japanese (Midori or Miroku) muskets. They work reliably, and repair easily, if and when they ever break down.

You get what you pay for with flintlocks, as with so many other things. I wouldn't be caught dead with a Loyalist Arms Indian-made musket- literally.



ETA: I have learned to get my muskets custom-built, using Rifle Shoppe parts kits. Not cheap, but worth every penny.

www.therifleshoppe.com


...Exactly what he said.....I build them...."parts" for a build average around 6-700....last one i built for a gentleman was a basic Type C....1300.00
the days of 350.00 "Trade Guns" are long past.......


Sorry, I should have mentioned that I don't know squat about flintlocks - the Loyalist Arms was just a website I have on my list.
If and when I get around to getting one, I'll take your advice - thanks for posting it.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 8:59:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 9:16:00 AM EST by Papabri]
ETA: I have learned to get my muskets custom-built, using Rifle Shoppe parts kits. Not cheap, but worth every penny.
www.therifleshoppe.com


Is this something a flintlock newbie like I could do?

ETA: What should the average newbie budget from scratch (i.e. have no supplies) ? What type, bore, etc. might you receommend?
Link Posted: 3/7/2009 3:24:48 PM EST
Okay. I found a deal on a new Pedersoli Kentucky rifle in 45 caliber and sent payment for it today. What do I need now to make this thing go boom? I have fff blackpowder that I use in my cap and ball revolvers. What flints and other stuff do I need? I have never shot any BP gun beyond my revolvers so I have no clue about patched lead balls and the like.
Link Posted: 3/10/2009 2:23:52 PM EST
Looks like this thread is pretty quiet. Keep us posted, and pics please!
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 4:10:14 PM EST
I got her out to the range yesterday. It was rainy and windy but the gun fired as long as I did my part. It took me a whil eto get the flint sparking well. Once I got that dialed in, it went bang every time. I have a horrible flinch though. I started out pulling the shots 4" right at 15 yards off-hand By the end of about 30 rounds, I stopped looking at the pan and got to about 1" right and bang onfor elevation with 35 grains of fff under a patched round ball. My buddy who is an experienced flinter put the rounds all right on off-hand so I guess it's my technique that sucks. I can hit well at 200 yards with a AR or FAL, but this flintlock is challenging me at 15 yards

Oh well. I am absolutely hooked now!
Link Posted: 3/15/2009 5:51:19 PM EST
Sounds like fun.
Pics?
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 8:37:35 AM EST
The Mold and Gun Shop in Jackson Ohio would be a good place to pick up a complete kit. Good quality and real friendly folks. The ad can be found in Muzzleblasts and Muzzleloading magazines. Take your time and you will have a fowler that you can be proud of. Some good photos will help guide you also. Mine and my camp buddies all have 62cal,which is 20ga today.
Have fun.
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I want a servicible shooter smoothbore musket. Where can I find one for any kind of reasonable price? All of the ones I see cost what an AR15 would! I just want a good shooter that is styled somewhat historically-accurate. Thanks for any input.


Link Posted: 6/3/2009 3:35:47 PM EST
Middlesex Village Trading Co. carries a nice assortment of flintlocks at reasonable prices. They are made in India. Fit and finish is OK, nothing special, but probably not too far off the originals. I have one of their French M1717 muskets, while my dad has a Brown Bess and a British Sea Service pistol from them. All three guns are solid and the locks spark well.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:19:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:
Middlesex Village Trading Co. carries a nice assortment of flintlocks at reasonable prices. They are made in India. Fit and finish is OK, nothing special, but probably not too far off the originals. I have one of their French M1717 muskets, while my dad has a Brown Bess and a British Sea Service pistol from them. All three guns are solid and the locks spark well.



They're dogs, too. We were going to buy some for the national park I work at, until we got hold of some. One park ranger bought an India Pattern on his own since the merchant told him "The British used India Pattern muskets in the American Revolution", which is a lie. (They wouldn't take it back, BTW, and we wouldn't let the guy use it in public demos here.)

Same quality issues as the Loyalist Arms and Discriminating General ones already on the market. Cheap metal, untuned locks, rock-crusher mainsprings, dyed teak or rosewood stocks. Lack of servicable parts. DOM tubing barrels. Gunsmiths won't touch them- they won't take the responsibility for them. They are quite far off from the originals. Put them next to originals, such as the ones on display at Springfield Armory, and they look like a caricature of the real thing.

Many reenactment units in the RevWar side of the hobby don't allow them. The Pedersolis? Not perfect, but they are reliable, hold up under daily use all year, are easily worked on, and you can get spares for them.

I don't trust cheapo Indian guns.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:29:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
Okay. I found a deal on a new Pedersoli Kentucky rifle in 45 caliber and sent payment for it today. What do I need now to make this thing go boom? I have fff blackpowder that I use in my cap and ball revolvers. What flints and other stuff do I need? I have never shot any BP gun beyond my revolvers so I have no clue about patched lead balls and the like.



Pedersoli's are very good. In black powder cartridge silhouete, their Sharps replicas shoot right along with the best semi custom guns from Shiloh and C Sharps. Use 100% linen patch material. I suggest Ox Yoke Originals as a source. Use only 100% pure lead balls like those from Speer or Hornady. The balls sold by the Italean suppliers like CVA are often scrap lead alloy of unknown origin and are too hard to shoot well.

If the patch ends up crooked then the shot will be off. So I don't use pre cut patches. I use strips of patching about 1-1/2" wide and 2 to 3 feet long. I melt Crisco in a frying pan and then soak the patch strips by running them through the melted crisco and lay them out to dry on paper towels.

When shooting, I lay thr end of the patch strip accros the muzzle and then use the short starter to push the patch and ball down flush with the muzzle. Then I cut the patch off flush with the muzzle and ram the patched ball firmly down on the powder.

You can get away with fffg in a .45 rifle but ffg would be better. You'll need ffffg for the flash pan if its a flint lock.

Tuning a flint lock to where it ignites as fast and reliably as a percussion cap is a whole science in itself.


Link Posted: 6/16/2009 1:24:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:
Middlesex Village Trading Co. carries a nice assortment of flintlocks at reasonable prices. They are made in India. Fit and finish is OK, nothing special, but probably not too far off the originals. I have one of their French M1717 muskets, while my dad has a Brown Bess and a British Sea Service pistol from them. All three guns are solid and the locks spark well.



They're dogs, too. We were going to buy some for the national park I work at, until we got hold of some. One park ranger bought an India Pattern on his own since the merchant told him "The British used India Pattern muskets in the American Revolution", which is a lie. (They wouldn't take it back, BTW, and we wouldn't let the guy use it in public demos here.)

Same quality issues as the Loyalist Arms and Discriminating General ones already on the market. Cheap metal, untuned locks, rock-crusher mainsprings, dyed teak or rosewood stocks. Lack of servicable parts. DOM tubing barrels. Gunsmiths won't touch them- they won't take the responsibility for them. They are quite far off from the originals. Put them next to originals, such as the ones on display at Springfield Armory, and they look like a caricature of the real thing.

Many reenactment units in the RevWar side of the hobby don't allow them. The Pedersolis? Not perfect, but they are reliable, hold up under daily use all year, are easily worked on, and you can get spares for them.

I don't trust cheapo Indian guns.


What a bummer to read. I've been thinking of a MTVC Long Land Bess...

The Pedersolis are great, I'm sure, but they're not anywhere near correct for an F&I impression.
Top Top