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7/8/2020 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 4/18/2016 6:23:55 PM EDT
do you have to have the suppressor design already, or just basics like length and cal? I know I want to build a 9mm can but am not sure on how I will do it yet, but would like to get the paper work rolling.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:50:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 10:00:54 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
Just the basics, caliber, length, most use a Model name from the drop down list like, 9MM Suppressor, I think I hit all the high points from memory.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:05:39 PM EDT
I didn't turn in any designs, still was approved.  yrmv
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:10:25 PM EDT
No design needed.  And for those that claim you should put a ridiculously long length on the form and then build shorter...

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:20:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:23:20 PM EDT
I like using n/a for model. 1 less thing to engrave.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:57:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 10:00:38 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
No design needed.  And for those that claim you should put a ridiculously long length on the form and then build shorter...

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=84416
View Quote

So, I am tired and a little slow after a looong day.

I file my F1 can at .223 and 7 inches, I built it after stamp approval at 8.5 inches, no problemo as long as I notify BATFE, did I read that correctly.

I always understood, shorter OK, longer than F1 spec'd a no go.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:09:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 9:59:34 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGENE:

So, I am tired and a little slow after a looong day.

I file my F1 can at .223 and 7 inches, I built it after stamp approval at 8.5 inches, no problemo as long as I notify BATFE, did I read that correctly.

I always understood, shorter OK, longer than F1 spec'd a no go.
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Originally Posted By BGENE:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
No design needed.  And for those that claim you should put a ridiculously long length on the form and then build shorter...

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=84416

So, I am tired and a little slow after a looong day.

I file my F1 can at .223 and 7 inches, I built it after stamp approval at 8.5 inches, no problemo as long as I notify BATFE, did I read that correctly.

I always understood, shorter OK, longer than F1 spec'd a no go.

Yes.  Doesn't matter what the length is on the initial build, just let them know it ended up being different than what you listed on the Form 1.  After the initial build repairs can only make it shorter, never longer.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 7:56:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 10:00:02 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:

Yes.  Doesn't matter what the length is on the initial build, just let them know it ended up being different than what you listed on the Form 1.  After the initial build repairs can only make it shorter, never longer.
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By BGENE:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
No design needed.  And for those that claim you should put a ridiculously long length on the form and then build shorter...

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=84416

So, I am tired and a little slow after a looong day.

I file my F1 can at .223 and 7 inches, I built it after stamp approval at 8.5 inches, no problemo as long as I notify BATFE, did I read that correctly.

I always understood, shorter OK, longer than F1 spec'd a no go.

Yes.  Doesn't matter what the length is on the initial build, just let them know it ended up being different than what you listed on the Form 1.  After the initial build repairs can only make it shorter, never longer.

Who has done this successfully?
As I tried once and was denied.
I changed my design, while form pending, and came out .75" longer.
I notified BATFE and was told longer=new stamp so I modified my design.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:04:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 10:00:19 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By User55645:
Who has done this successfully?
As I tried once and was denied.
I changed my design, while form pending, and came out .75" longer.
I notified BATFE and was told longer=new stamp so I modified my design.
View Quote

Did you let them know that you hadn't built the can yet?
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 10:23:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 11:29:08 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By User55645:

Who has done this successfully?
As I tried once and was denied.
I changed my design, while form pending, and came out .75" longer.
I notified BATFE and was told longer=new stamp so I modified my design.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By User55645:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By BGENE:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
No design needed.  And for those that claim you should put a ridiculously long length on the form and then build shorter...

http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=84416

So, I am tired and a little slow after a looong day.

I file my F1 can at .223 and 7 inches, I built it after stamp approval at 8.5 inches, no problemo as long as I notify BATFE, did I read that correctly.

I always understood, shorter OK, longer than F1 spec'd a no go.

Yes.  Doesn't matter what the length is on the initial build, just let them know it ended up being different than what you listed on the Form 1.  After the initial build repairs can only make it shorter, never longer.

Who has done this successfully?
As I tried once and was denied.
I changed my design, while form pending, and came out .75" longer.
I notified BATFE and was told longer=new stamp so I modified my design.

This is typical of the stories I have heard. One thing to keep in mind, BATFE is a big Government Agency with a lot of different employees, if the law & regulation is not clear about this specific circumstance, it is open to interpretation and one examiner may feel different than another. I would be happy if someone could point me to a formal release of guidance like an ATF Bulletin.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:31:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 11:35:51 AM EDT by User55645]
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:

Did you let them know that you hadn't built the can yet?
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Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By User55645:
Who has done this successfully?
As I tried once and was denied.
I changed my design, while form pending, and came out .75" longer.
I notified BATFE and was told longer=new stamp so I modified my design.

Did you let them know that you hadn't built the can yet?




Originally Posted By BGENE:
Originally Posted By BGENE:

I always understood, shorter OK, longer than F1 spec'd a no go.

This is typical of the stories I have heard. One thing to keep in mind, BATFE is a big Government Agency with a lot of different employees, if the law & regulation is not clear about this specific circumstance, it is open to interpretation and one examiner may feel different than another. I would be happy if someone could point me to a formal release of guidance like an ATF Bulletin.

I've also been told, by several ATF contacts, that (they feel) if your final build is more than 1/2" shorter than the listed Form 1 length, you need to send in an amendment to the approved form.
Yes, shorter is OK, but only when documented (again, their interpretation/experience).
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 11:32:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 5:57:07 PM EDT by BigWaylon]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By User55645:
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Originally Posted By User55645:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By User55645:
Who has done this successfully?
As I tried once and was denied.
I changed my design, while form pending, and came out .75" longer.
I notified BATFE and was told longer=new stamp so I modified my design.

Did you let them know that you hadn't built the can yet?

I get that, but did the examiner?
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 1:27:56 PM EDT
Included below is the text from my email exchange today:



On Apr 19, 2016, at 7:08 AM, "Gary.N.Schaible@usdoj.gov" <Gary.N.Schaible@usdoj.gov> wrote:

Yes, sir

From: mnandy
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 8:05 AM
To: Schaible, Gary N. <Gary.Schaible@atf.gov>
Subject: Re: Ask the Expert Question from Mnandy

Hi,
Thank you for your information. After the form is approved, would I be able to build to the caliber specified, but to the longer length provided I send a written notification of the actual completed length? This would be a workable alternative for me provided that it legal to do so. I would prefer not to give up my spot in line for approval if possible.

Thanks
Andy



On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:58 AM, "Gary.N.Schaible@usdoj.gov" <Gary.N.Schaible@usdoj.gov> wrote:

The information on a submitted eForm application cannot be modified by either you or us.  If there is an error on or change needed to the form, you should request a withdrawal and submit a new application.  To request a withdrawal, send a request to the NFA Branch at eForms.Refunds@atf.gov.  Include the control/permit number of the transaction in this request.  Once your request is processed and the application is withdrawn, a refund of the tax paid will be generated and will appear as a reversal of the charge on the card used.  You can submit a new application immediately (with a tax payment).


From: mnandy
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:45 PM
To: eForms NFA Info <eforms.nfa.info@atf.gov>
Subject: Ask the Expert Question from



You have you received a new question from eForms user Mnandy


Hi, Is it possible to change the length and caliber on a form 1 after submission but before approval? If it is, I would like to change Redacted to 10.5" length and 30 caliber. Please let me know either way, and if it is possible, go ahead and make the changes. Thanks, Andy
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 3:34:48 PM EDT
Two different answers from the same guy a couple months apart if I read that right.

Maybe his boss saw his original answers and said no go on that advise.  ATF might also have updated their guidance with the increased popularity of the F1 process.

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 3:48:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BGENE:
Two different answers from the same guy a couple months apart if I read that right.

Maybe his boss saw his original answers and said no go on that advise.  ATF might also have updated their guidance with the increased popularity of the F1 process.

View Quote


Same answer both times. I can't change the form, but I can send a notification if I deviate from the stated length on the build.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:08:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 5:59:47 PM EDT by BigWaylon]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mnandy:

Same answer both times. I can't change the form, but I can send a notification if I deviate from the stated length on the build.
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Originally Posted By mnandy:
Originally Posted By BGENE:
Two different answers from the same guy a couple months apart if I read that right.

Maybe his boss saw his original answers and said no go on that advise.  ATF might also have updated their guidance with the increased popularity of the F1 process.

Same answer both times. I can't change the form, but I can send a notification if I deviate from the stated length on the build.


I will read it again.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:59:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:30:13 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

It was definitely the same answer.

Gary is the Program Director, and is the one NFA employee still in DC instead of WV.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By BGENE:
I will read it again.

It was definitely the same answer.

Gary is the Program Director, and is the one NFA employee still in DC instead of WV.

Boy wish I had know this before I paid to have a Titanium can made. I would have made it an inch longer.
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