What's up with this lake city brass?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What's up with this lake city brass?

Posted: 9/10/2010 5:45:31 PM EDT

So I ordered 500 sized trimmed and debured .308 brass. It is mixed lake city milsurp. So I set up my dies and I start setting the powder measure and I have the large powder bar in the Dillion. The charge I was trying was the starting point for H380 (48 gr) with the 150 grain JSP per Lyman manual. I keep adjusting till I get the metering right. I look at the case and the powder is a lot higher in the case then I expected so I reweigh and it's right. I check my scale with the check weight and it's on. Throw another and it's also high enuff that it will be compressed and it's not a compressed load. So I fill a .308 case by hand to the top and weight it, it's less than max load for H308 according to the manual. Now I'm like what the fuck. I know that mil spec brass is thicked and all but damn. Should I reduce all loads by 10% or just the max. I thought it was only the max.

Any ideas?

I loaded one and it is most surely compressing the powder.

Posted: 9/10/2010 6:58:47 PM EDT

[#1]

Sounds like you need to work up the load again.

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:15:49 PM EDT

[#2]

So I fill a .308 case by hand to the top and weight it, it's less than max load for H308 according to the manual

I see your point. Something is certainly not right. Do you have any once fired cases from your stash that you could compare to the new sized, trimmed, deburred case? Do you have any case measuring equipment?

Scale may be out of calibration?

PS: I found recipe that had 51.7 grains compressed in a .308 case using a 150g flat based speer at 2.800 COAL. So go figure.

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:21:58 PM EDT

[#3]

Hmm... I don't have the Lyman manual, and the Hornady #7 I do have doesn't list H380 with 150 gr .308, but I can tell you the max loads listed are from 43.3 gr to 47.2 gr, with the ave @ 45.28 gr. I know there's some controversy amongst sources as far as max loads, but I'd say 48 gr seems rather high, especially for a starting point. Any possibility you accidently looked at 110 or 130 gr bullet loads? They average around 48 gr for a max load.

Anyway, even if your book does say 48 gr for a 150 gr .308, I'd down below 43 at least (maybe 42) and work up from there.

Good Luck,
-jtr

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:31:40 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

So I fill a .308 case by hand to the top and weight it, it's less than max load for H308 according to the manual

I see your point. Something is certainly not right. Do you have any once fired cases from your stash that you could compare to the new sized, trimmed, deburred case? Do you have any case measuring equipment?

Scale may be out of calibration?

PS: I found recipe that had 51.7 grains compressed in a .308 case using a 150g flat based speer at 2.800 COAL. So go figure.

I checked my scale with tare weights to confirm.

I checked the cases with a Dillion gauge and the look good. Also have checked OAL and case lenght with micrometer all good.

I have some berdan primed brass that I shot today I will check some of it and see.

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:34:52 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Hmm... I don't have the Lyman manual, and the Hornady #7 I do have doesn't list H380 with 150 gr .308, but I can tell you the max loads listed are from 43.3 gr to 47.2 gr, with the ave @ 45.28 gr. I know there's some controversy amongst sources as far as max loads, but I'd say 48 gr seems rather high, especially for a starting point. Any possibility you accidently looked at 110 or 130 gr bullet loads? They average around 48 gr for a max load.

Anyway, even if your book does say 48 gr for a 150 gr .308, I'd down below 43 at least (maybe 42) and work up from there.

Good Luck,
-jtr

I'm not loading shit till I figure this out. I will definatily back the load down but I usually start at the suggested min.

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:41:32 PM EDT

[#6]

almost looks like a misprint since the last line in the grid/bullet above ALSO shows 48 for that powder

eta: well maybe, Lee 2nd shows 47 - 51 for 150 jacketed (48-52 for 130)

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:42:01 PM EDT

[#7]

Probably should clarify if you are working up a load for a gas gun like M1A, or a bolt gun. There is a big difference in max loads.

Looks like Hornady is getting 52.0+ grains of H380 in a shorter 2.735 (.065 shorter) COAL with the flat base JSP. The OP says his powder is spilling out in the floor at 52.0+ grains if I am reading him right.

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:50:02 PM EDT

[#8]

Gas gun. OBR

yes the one above does Hmmmm

Posted: 9/10/2010 7:53:15 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Probably should clarify if you are working up a load for a gas gun like M1A, or a bolt gun. There is a big difference in max loads.

Looks like Hornady is getting 52.0+ grains of H380 in a shorter 2.735 (.065 shorter) COAL with the flat base JSP. The OP says his powder is spilling out in the floor at 52.0+ grains if I am reading him right.

You are correct. The case wouldn't hold the 52 listed as a max load.

I was like

when I saw the case with the starting load dump on it.

I'm not trying to load at that I was just curious.

Posted: 9/10/2010 8:12:46 PM EDT

[#10]

I don't know if it's any help or not, but all the data (gr vs. velocity) in your book that is also in Hornady's match what the Hornady #7 has (Varget, N-140, IMR 4895, etc).

I suspect a misprint in your book as well. The IMR 4320 above it drops from 45.0 gr to 42.5 gr with a ~200 fps reduction... how come the H380 stays at 48.0 gr and shows a ~300 fps reduction?

Posted: 9/10/2010 8:31:50 PM EDT

[#11]

I have some 1x and 2x LC's here but they all have spent primers in them now or are fully loaded ready to go.

Here are some sized and decapped case weights (LC'07): 177.1 gn 2.020 lgth.; 177.1 gn 2.025 lgth.; 176.4 gn 2.026 lgth; 176.8 gn 2.028 lgth;
176.5 gn 2.025 lgth; 177.4 gn 2.033 lgth; 176.6 gn 2.028 lgth. for comparison, that I had recorded earlier.

Posted: 9/10/2010 9:02:24 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Probably should clarify if you are working up a load for a gas gun like M1A, or a bolt gun. There is a big difference in max loads.

Looks like Hornady is getting 52.0+ grains of H380 in a shorter 2.735 (.065 shorter) COAL with the flat base JSP. The OP says his powder is spilling out in the floor at 52.0+ grains if I am reading him right.

You are correct. The case wouldn't hold the 52 listed as a max load.

I was like

when I saw the case with the starting load dump on it.

I'm not trying to load at that I was just curious.

MilSurp 308 can be thicker with less internal volume.

Reloading manuals generally use commercial brass, so say Winchester might get them to 52grs, but LCXX might not.

There's a reason people use 'drop tubes' when trying to get that last Nth grain of powder into the case.

They work.

Chris

Posted: 9/10/2010 9:33:07 PM EDT

[#13]

I would suggest weighing it against some commercial brass like Winchester, Remington, or Hornady to establish a SAAMI-spec baseline for comparison.

Not all brass is created equal, and you may have gotten your hands on a lot that was on the heavy side.

Posted: 9/10/2010 9:53:51 PM EDT

[#14]

Just as a precaution, make sure there is no media stuck in the case. I suspect thick brass, but start with the easy first.

Posted: 9/10/2010 11:14:07 PM EDT

[#15]

Nosler's new manual doesn't list H380 until the 180gr bullets but it has a starting load of 44gr's and a Max of 48gr's, so for a 150gr 48gr's shouldn't be near max and just might be a good starting load.

Barnes list H414 for .308 150gr bullets, no H380 loads.

Sierra list H380 for a 150gr bullet at 43.4 min to 48.7gr Max.

We all seen what Lyman listed in the post above.

I don't load .308, this is just based off what my manual says, use at own risk.

Posted: 9/11/2010 5:25:12 AM EDT

[#16]

H380 is a little slow for that cartridge and bullet combination, but I've never loaded it so I don't know if it's also bulky.

Make sure you're on the right page of data! (I compared the other loads on the chart above and they look comparable to the Hornady #7 book.)

Posted: 9/11/2010 6:16:08 AM EDT

[#17]

I'm not sure how much variance there may be in the primer weights, but I just weighed some once fired m118LR and some once fired FGMM that has been tumbled but NOT deprimed, trimmed and sized. The LC weighed in at 187.6 while the FGMM was exactly 1 gr heavier at 188.6.

-JTR

Posted: 9/11/2010 7:30:23 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
H380 is a little slow for that cartridge and bullet combination, but I've never loaded it so I don't know if it's also bulky.

Make sure you're on the right page of data! (I compared the other loads on the chart above and they look comparable to the Hornady #7 book.)

I have checked that several times. I think I will be changing to a different powder bullet combo.

I had the powder and bullets handy and thought I would try it. I think I will check the Lyman site to see if there is anything there on this.

Trying to load for my 20" OBR for a upcoming match if anyone has a load that they think may be a good starting point. This match will be in Jan so I think I will go with a 170+ grain bullet for wind reasons.

Posted: 9/11/2010 3:33:26 PM EDT

[#19]

All Lake City (and IMI) .308 brass takes 2.0 grain reduction in powder when compared to Winchester. Mine average around 179 grains unprimed. Winchester sometimes olny weighs 155 grains. Huge difference.

Use Hornady's "Service Rifle Data" for loading semi-auto rifles. That data was designed for M1A's, but will be safe in your firearm.

H-380 isn't a semi-auto friendly powder. Too slow. Try;

IMR-4895
IMR-3031
IMR-4064
H-4895
Varget
RE-15
VihtaVuori N-140
VihtaVuori N135
VihtaVuori N-540

Posted: 9/11/2010 4:44:37 PM EDT

[#20]

Thanks all.

Borderpatrol thanks for that list and the info.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What's up with this lake city brass?

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