Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/26/2005 4:22:41 PM EDT

So I just got a couple of Garands from the CMP and I can't figure out what prevents the bolt from closing on your hand while loading. I understand that as long you keep pressure on the clip the bolt won't close. But as I'm playing with the action while it's removed from the stock, I don't see this behavior. If I lock the bolt all the way back and depress the follower all the way to the bottom of the receiver the follower arm pushes forward on the operating rod catch, titlting it up and releasing the operating rod.

I verified this by using a dowel to push down on the follower. I maintained constant pressure all of the time and the bolt closed on the dowel.

I checked this behavior on both of the Garands and they behave the same. I must be missing something here. Can someone explain this to me?

Thanks,
Jeff
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:34:13 PM EDT
I was taught when pushing a loaded enblok clip into a Garand to have the pinky edge of my hand against the hooked part of the op rod. Once the clip was seated to get my thumb out of the way of the bolt as I released it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:39:05 PM EDT
your thumb......



seriously, there is a catch that holds it open, but once th eclip is down far enough the bolt will go home, if your hand is in th eway in any form or part you get Garand Thumb, use the edge of th ehand to hold the op rod back while loading
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:56:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffC:
So I just got a couple of Garands from the CMP and I can't figure out what prevents the bolt from closing on your hand while loading. I understand that as long you keep pressure on the clip the bolt won't close. But as I'm playing with the action while it's removed from the stock, I don't see this behavior. If I lock the bolt all the way back and depress the follower all the way to the bottom of the receiver the follower arm pushes forward on the operating rod catch, titlting it up and releasing the operating rod.

I verified this by using a dowel to push down on the follower. I maintained constant pressure all of the time and the bolt closed on the dowel.

I checked this behavior on both of the Garands and they behave the same. I must be missing something here. Can someone explain this to me?

Thanks,
Jeff



The thing that keeps the bolt from traveling forward when you keep pressure on the top round is the cartridge itself. The bolt starts forward, and hits the round but can't strip it out of the clip because you are holding it in place. As soon as you jerk your thumb out of the way, it strips the round and chambers it.
If you push the follower without a loaded clip in the rifle, the bolt will come forward and their is nothing to stop it but your thumb. OUCH!!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:04:43 PM EDT
The Follower is what holds the bolt out of the way till you insert another clip.

Remember to get that thumb out of the way asap, hold your hand in a flat almost saluting type hold, use the thumb to push in the loaded clip while the end of your palm prevents the op rod from moving too far forward too fast thus letting the bolt slam into your finger

Gotta be quick
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:13:20 PM EDT
I got this on another M1 site as well as from some old Garand shooters:
Make sure the bolt is all the way back and latched, not just resting against the follower. If it isn't it will get your thumb.
Jim
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:24:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 5:25:03 PM EDT by Dano523]
The charging handle/opt rod is locked rearward via the opt rod catch (bottom front/bottom of the receiver), and will retain the the opt rod all the way back as you push the clip down to the bottom. As you "release" pressure from the clip, the lock is released by the recoil spring tension, and the opt rod moves forward taking/caming the bolt with it.
Note: Garand thumb is caused by either a worn catch/opt rod sears, or by dancing the clip off the bottom of the well with you thumg still in the action. The clip load should be smooth down, hit the bottom, then quickly get your thumb out of the action as you release the downward pressure.

To test a catch/opt rod engagement sears, take a fully loaded clip and push it all the way down and do not lift up after bottoming out the clip. The bolt should stay back until you release the downward pressure off the clip.
Note: keep you other hand free to catch the Opt rod handle just incase the catch or opt rod sears are worn (read to save you fingers during the test).

As for the bolt moving forward after you lift up off the mag and not fully stripping the top clipped round and chamber it, it is normal to have to bump the charging handle to get the first round loaded.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:16:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:11:46 AM EDT

M1 Thumb occurs when closing the bolt on an empty magazine.

I challenge anyone to get M1 Thumb loading the rifle. Can't be done without dedicated effort on your part as your thumb doesn't enter the magazine, only the clip does. Bolt won't move as long as you keep pressure on the top round or you move the op rod to the rear,



DITTO.... +1.... AMEN.... to the above that Chuck wrote.

Read it again. Read it AGAIN TWICE !!!!!

99.99% of "M1 Thumb" cases happen when the shooter is fooling around with an EMPTY RIFLE.... It almost NEVER happens when loading a full clip of ammo. The physics of the action prevent it.

For somebody to get M1 Thumb while loading a full clip of 8 rounds they'd REALLY have to be trying to get their thumb in the way, or just Royally screwing up by the numbers.

Just my opinion,
Swampy

Garands forever
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 10:08:43 AM EDT
I think there is a BHO device someone offers, which will hold the bolt open after reloading until you press a button on the receiver.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 10:37:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
I think there is a BHO device someone offers, which will hold the bolt open after reloading until you press a button on the receiver.



I'm not really interested in changing the nominal function of the rifle, I just want to understand how it works.

I've gotten some good responses. It sounds as though seating the clip all the way home is supposed to trip the bolt and unless you have little girly fingers or you're screwing around there's no real way to get M1 thumb.

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 5:31:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
I think there is a BHO device someone offers, which will hold the bolt open after reloading until you press a button on the receiver.



And I thought that little device also prevented the ejection of the empty clip too. Really changes the way the rifle behaves.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:57:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chuck:
I challenge anyone to get M1 Thumb loading the rifle. Can't be done without dedicated effort on your part as your thumb doesn't enter the magazine, only the clip does. Bolt won't move as long as you keep pressure on the top round or you move the op rod to the rear
-- Chuck



I'm glad someone finally posted this. I agree 100%. I've often thought that "Garand Thumb" while loading was just some kind of Garand shooters urban legend. Along with the stories of ejecting en bloc's getting soldiers killed because the enemy heard the "ching" sound and knew the soldiers rifle was empty. I'm no expert, but I'm fairly well read on the subject and I've *never* heard of this happening in combat.

I've also heard that if you don't load the clips with the last round/top round on the right the rounds won't feed properly. Yeah right.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 9:05:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
your thumb.....




I knew someone had to say it!

Quite true but quickly learned.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:03:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:44:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chuck:
Very early M1 Rifles were "top round on the right" sensitive. This was due to a machining error in the receivers which was soon corrected.-- Chuck



I wasn't aware of this Chuck, thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:59:17 AM EDT

your thumb......


Top Top