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Page Armory » Blades
Posted: 1/24/2011 8:02:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 8:58:08 PM EDT by Spartanatheart]
Most of what I use is the cheap chinese knives like Mtech & Frost cutlery. They have been good daily knives for the most part except the Mtech's belt clip broke off, but the blade itself is still sharp. Plus I like the little light in the back of them.

I look at these knives & am trying to justify the cost in my head to get one.
http://store.ar15.com/store/product.html?cat=11&prod=127

But what makes a knife worth so much? I just carry them in a pocket, so belt clips are nothing to me & for that price, I could buy a dozen Mtechs.
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UPDATE: After some research & my curiosity getting the better of me, I've decided to try the SOG Trident if I can find one at this upcoming gunshow.
Think my choice is a good carry knife? I went back thru all 8 pages & there was nothing on them.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 10:09:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2011 10:10:30 AM EDT by devinsdad]
First off, the prices reflect the cost of materials. Better steels will cost more, add to that the cost of engineering and design, marketing and advertising, packaging and shipping of the knife,,,gotta pay for them too. Lastly, is the labor cost...where the majority of the costs are. Costs tons less to pay for slave labor than union wages here in the USA. Just like a Fenix light costs less than a Surefire etc. Labor is the greatest cost in the production of goods. If you think CRKT costs alot.....you need to get out more. If you are happy with Mtech, and it does what you need it to, than you are a lucky man. You got by with the absoluty cheapest knife out there. However, if you need your knife to do more or to withstand more.....well.....thats gonna cost more.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 10:55:59 AM EDT
thats not even an expensive knife. but simply put you get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 1:39:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Most of what I use is the cheap chinese knives like Mtech & Frost cutlery. They have been good daily knives for the most part except the Mtech's belt clip broke off, but the blade itself is still sharp. Plus I like the little light in the back of them.

I look at these knives & am trying to justify the cost in my head to get one.
http://store.ar15.com/store/product.html?cat=11&prod=127

But what makes a knife worth so much? I just carry them in a pocket, so belt clips are nothing to me & for that price, I could buy a dozen Mtechs.



You use Flea Market knives. Will they cut? Sure. Will they take an edge? Probably. Will they keep an edge? Not very long. Will they hold up over time? Probably not.

As stated, the more expensive knives have better quality steel. Better quality steel translates to stronger blades, better edge retention, and often, easier sharpening.

More expensive knives also use better handle materials, better lock work, and better engineering/ergonomics.

Think of it in relation to firearms: Does a Hi-Point shoot? Yes. Is it a quality piece? No.
Does a Colt 1911 shoot? Yes. Is it a quality piece? Yes.

The price difference between the two shows the added engineering and labor costs in the Colt, as well as the better quality of materials.
Colt vs. Hi-Point is similar to Frost vs. Spyderco or Benchmade.
Both knives will cut just as both pistols will shoot. The difference is in the quality of the product, it's durability, resale value, and a certain amount of "cool factor".

Yeah, the Frost knife like the Hi-Point pistol will "do the job" in most cases, but the more expensive knives (Spyderco, Benchmade, ZT, Chris Reeve, Strider) are all more "heavy duty" and quality built.

To some, this makes a difference. To others, they can go on forever using cheap stuff, oblivious to what a quality gun/knife actually is.

And also as stated, if you think that CRKT knife in your link is expensive, you definitely should get out more!
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 1:47:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2011 1:48:57 PM EDT by Afterwork_Ninja]
I'm always amazed in the difference in feel when you sharpen a knife made of good steel.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 2:19:16 PM EDT
89.99 = Expensive knife

My cheap ass spends almost double that on a carry knife
don't get me wrong a cheap knife has its place but 89.99 is neither cheap nor expensive
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 2:52:02 PM EDT
If it ain't 4 digits it ain't even in the same realm as expensive.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 2:59:32 PM EDT
I'm an ESEE fan-good quality steel,unconditional warranty,no BS standards, great customer satisfaction. Not cheap but not over the top. The old saying "you get what you pay for". It took me awhile to appreciate good knives. I have a drawer full of crap knives that will probably never see daylight again. JMHO
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 3:00:12 PM EDT
"cheap is never good, and good is never cheap."
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 3:40:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Most of what I use is the cheap chinese knives like Mtech & Frost cutlery. They have been good daily knives for the most part except the Mtech's belt clip broke off, but the blade itself is still sharp. Plus I like the little light in the back of them.

I look at these knives & am trying to justify the cost in my head to get one.
http://store.ar15.com/store/product.html?cat=11&prod=127

But what makes a knife worth so much? I just carry them in a pocket, so belt clips are nothing to me & for that price, I could buy a dozen Mtechs.



It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. For most people, the key factor in that is the manufacturer's advertising budget.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 4:34:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2011 7:33:36 PM EDT by Reorx]
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Most of what I use is the cheap chinese knives crap like Mtech...

I look at these knives & am trying to justify the cost in my head to get one.
http://store.ar15.com/store/product.html?cat=11&prod=127

But what makes a knife worth so much?
I guess that the simple answer is that the "expensive" knife is NOT cheap chinese crap... it is actually not all that expensive compared to other "quality" folders... it is quite reasonable... especially compared to this!



Link Posted: 1/24/2011 6:21:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DannyGlover:
89.99 = Expensive knife

My cheap ass spends almost double that on a carry knife
don't get me wrong a cheap knife has its place but 89.99 is neither cheap nor expensive


Then I really want your job. Because to me, that's a week's savings at least.

Yes, this knife is probably the best of all time, but it isn't a folder.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=3

P.S.
What knife do you have that is $180?
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 6:36:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2011 6:37:55 PM EDT by FormUnknown]
A quality knife is going to come in at at least 50 and I am citing the kershaw blur for that low end. There is probably something lower than that, but getting below there it really matters who the manufacturer is.

For EDC I am going to throw out the crkt m16, spyderco endura, kerhsaw blur and Benchmade griptillian. These are ballpark figures it might be like 53 or whatever.

Kershaw blur 50
Spyderco Endura 50
Crkt m16 50
Benchmade mini-grip 50
Benchmade grip 60-75

So from that, it seems like 50 is the starting point for the common edc knives and it goes way up from there. People carry Sebenzas and shit and that's like 300-400 or something. I don't think 50 bucks is too much to lay down for a knife that will last you for a decade or more.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 7:15:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Originally Posted By DannyGlover:
89.99 = Expensive knife

My cheap ass spends almost double that on a carry knife
don't get me wrong a cheap knife has its place but 89.99 is neither cheap nor expensive


Then I really want your job. Because to me, that's a week's savings at least.

Yes, this knife is probably the best of all time, but it isn't a folder.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=3

P.S.
What knife do you have that is $180?


$89.99 will get you a good knife a la Spyderco Manix2 but is by no means an expensive knife. This is simple math. I'd be willing to bet you have more money than I do and I'd never think 2x about spending that much on a good knife. How can you actually want to keep buying shitty assed knives over and over rather than having a nice knife that is sturdy, well made, cuts well and holds an edge that is easy to maintain? If it wasn't bothering you, you wouldn't have posted. The CRKT M16 can be had for less than that and isn't that great a knife in that price range anyway IMO.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 7:26:25 PM EDT
If it wasn't bothering you, you wouldn't have posted


I'm merely curious in the same way I am about all those fancy optics people buy for their AR's.
I'm guessing their just wanting to be all "tier 1"* when a $35 reddot from Burris at Walmart would have been just fine.

On the other hand, I am curious to find out just how much better a knife can get.

*Not even sure where that phrase got started.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 7:37:26 PM EDT
Fuck top tier. You're asking how much better a knife can be than a $20 knife. That's bottom of the barrel. I understand if you say, how much better can it be than a $150 knife. Then it starts being about how perfect the knife is and possibly how expensive the materials are and how intensive the work was to create the details but come on.
I'd rather have an Aimpoint that lasts a lifetime and is tough and precise with great warranty. You go ahead and keep buying crap. That's just stupid.
The same goes for every product on earth. Fish filets at the supermarket vs Sushi grade or store brand beef vs restaurant quality. building materials, cars, grills, clothes etc.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 7:42:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:

I'm merely curious in the same way I am about all those fancy optics people buy for their AR's.
I'm guessing their just wanting to be all "tier 1"* when a $35 reddot from Burris at Walmart would have been just fine.

]


You're joking, right?





RIGHT?
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 7:51:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:

I'm merely curious in the same way I am about all those fancy optics people buy for their AR's.
I'm guessing their just wanting to be all "tier 1"* when a $35 reddot from Burris at Walmart would have been just fine.

]


You're joking, right?

RIGHT?


I probably said it wrong, so here it goes again.

I am NOT some fancy SEAL dude. I admit it & know it.
Me blowing $700 on a Aimpoint/etc won't do anything other than make me $700 poorer.
By the same principle, I'm saying I can't justify to myself spending so much money on a fancy knife when my current knife serves me well.

I agree with buying quality items IF your going to be using a lot. IE a farmer would buy a good tractor.
Me buying a tractor to plow my 20' by 20' garden is ridiculous.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 8:02:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:

I probably said it wrong, so here it goes again.

I am NOT some fancy SEAL dude. I admit it & know it.
Me blowing $700 on a Aimpoint/etc won't do anything other than make me $700 poorer.
By the same principle, I'm saying I can't justify to myself spending so much money on a fancy knife when my current knife serves me well.

I agree with buying quality items IF your going to be using a lot. IE a farmer would buy a good tractor.
Me buying a tractor to plow my 20' by 20' garden is ridiculous.




I'll give you some advantages of any aimpoint over any burris.

Durability. I've seen that cheap walmart shit destroyed by the vibrations of a car ride.
Ability to actually hold a zero. Car rides, bad vibrations, shooting, air, I've seen cheap optics go down to them all.
Clarity. Some people like to see. Some people like foggy shit.

Knives are no different. Some people lead lives where they don't need to get out and cut things or just cut little things. My high end knives have paid for themselves by doing things that el cheapos will not do. Easiest example is that I drive a truck. If I get a flat, I can't run that tire. I'm parked until I can get someone to come out and charge me $500 to fix my tire on the side of the road.

Not wanting to ruin a more expensive knife, I tried cutting the remnants of a flat tire off a wheel one day with a Glock knife. No dice. The blade dulled fast. I got out a Sog Seal pup, cut throught, not only the same rubber that dulled the cheap glock knife, but steel belts as well. The blade held and the sog isn't even a really expensive knife.

Some men need good tools.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 5:09:49 AM EDT
Did someone say expensive knives?

http://www.nordicknives.com/GenGAL1.php?id=4934
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 7:33:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Master_Shake:
Did someone say expensive knives?

http://www.nordicknives.com/GenGAL1.php?id=4934


Haha! That's crazy.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 7:48:51 AM EDT
http://store.mil-tac.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=34&HS=1
Mil tac knives

Picked one of these up at a pawn shop for $100.
Best blade I've ever bought. I like my Randal RAT3 too but this blade holds a "stupid" sharp edge. It can be used as a baton able ax, and it does not rust.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 10:10:58 AM EDT
To the OP, I see what you are saying and I understand your position. If you need an Aimpoint for duty use, get one. But as a average citizen not kicking in doors serving warrents or as a troop in Iraq fighting the enemy, why do you need to pay the price for an optic whose capabilities you will never need or use. I get it. If you are happy with the knife you are using....so be it. At the same time you need to recognize the fact that you do get more features/ruggedness with a higher cost. I'm actually surprised that with being here for over 3 years and 68 hundred plus posts, you havent figured that out?
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 11:46:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2011 11:48:33 AM EDT by ArmyLifer]
Originally Posted By Master_Shake:
Did someone say expensive knives?

http://www.nordicknives.com/GenGAL1.php?id=4934


Ha, I have one for me and one for the wife....WTF
––
OP, I saw that CRKT minus the AR15 logo for $50.00 at the gun show last weekend.
I get some of what you're saying, I'm still trying to rationalize $125 for the ZT I HAVE to HAVE, but decided it will be mine soon.

Link Posted: 1/25/2011 12:51:10 PM EDT
Knives are tools. Period. If you have it with you, you have a tool for cutting and self defense. An expensive knife in the drawer does you no good if you need to cut the rope you are hanging from. Advice from my Grandfather who was a mechanic all his life. "Buy the best tools you can afford and use them for what they are made for as they will last as long as you do. Don't use a ratchet for a hammer or a screw driver for a pry bar.' I have some of my grandfather's tools 40 years later.....

Enough said.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 1:18:45 PM EDT




And when it comes down to it I'd rather own a SOG trident or a Microtech Scarab/Cuda Maxx than a cheaper Mtech knock off of it.



=



+





Link Posted: 1/25/2011 8:29:58 PM EDT
There are knives and then there are Knives..

If you want a letter opener, 90% of the knives out there are perfect for you. If you need something for let's say, camping, you want something you can dig with, hammer with, chop with and about everything else you expect it to do without breaking, you're going to have to fork over some money.

Will some cheap Taiwanese stainless "survival" knife work? Yea, for a little bit, but it's stick tang and shitty steel will eventually break when you really can't afford for it to.

Buy once, cry once, and know your knife won't fail you
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 3:09:11 AM EDT
after countless cheap ass knives that crkt is the cheapest i will ever use. now its benchmade or nothing! i am saving up for a cr sebenza now after tryin one out at the last gunshow i went to!
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:29:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:

I'm merely curious in the same way I am about all those fancy optics people buy for their AR's.
I'm guessing their just wanting to be all "tier 1"* when a $35 reddot from Burris at Walmart would have been just fine.

]


You're joking, right?

RIGHT?


I probably said it wrong, so here it goes again.

I am NOT some fancy SEAL dude. I admit it & know it.
Me blowing $700 on a Aimpoint/etc won't do anything other than make me $700 poorer.
By the same principle, I'm saying I can't justify to myself spending so much money on a fancy knife when my current knife serves me well.

I agree with buying quality items IF your going to be using a lot. IE a farmer would buy a good tractor.
Me buying a tractor to plow my 20' by 20' garden is ridiculous.


Then don't. It's that simple. I went through a bunch of crummy cheap ass knives 15+ years ago, until I finally purchased an Emerson CQC7 (made by Benchmade at the time) and a SOG SEAL 2000. I'm not a "fancy SEAL dude" either, but I also haven't had to buy a knife in 15 years. If the cheap ones serve you well, then there's no need to upgrade. However, they didn't work for me, so I needed to and don't regret the decision.

Link Posted: 1/26/2011 2:51:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2011 2:52:03 PM EDT by redneck_indian]
OP -

if you ever saw what really goes into manufacturing a piece of cutlery, you'd be asking the more important question: what makes some of these (as in the ones you buy) knives so CHEAP.

i'm being serious. when something seems a lot cheaper than what it should be (like making a knife), there's a reason and when you're dealing with sharp pointy objects, that "reason" can end up costing you A LOT more than a quality piece.

i won a M-Tech folder, shooting pool. i threw it away, after realizing it was of such poor quality it was dangerous to use. i worry about inexperienced knife people who don't realize, sometimes, that the tool they are using is actually an accident waiting to happen. there are inexpensive options out there, such as Kershaw (a lot of bang for the buck). however, there probably are not any CHEAP knives that are worth having. nature's rule, daniel sahn, not mine
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 9:00:55 PM EDT
My knives:
2x SOG Pentagon Elite II
1x SOG Pentagon Elite
1x Swamp Rat Warden
2x Swamp Rat Chopweiler
1x Swamp Rat Taz Rat
1x Cold Steel Peacekeeper II
1x Ontario RAT 7

As good as my SOG knives are, I was amazed at how cheaply I was able to get them. The Swamp Rats need little said about them. Excellent steel and while the prices aren't as high as Busse Combat knives, Passing over the money to pick one up can bring a tear to your eye. While the Ontario is a good knife, it doesn't compare to the Chopweilers.

Link Posted: 1/27/2011 10:32:57 PM EDT
btt.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 4:07:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
Most of what I use is the cheap chinese knives like Mtech & Frost cutlery. They have been good daily knives for the most part except the Mtech's belt clip broke off, but the blade itself is still sharp. Plus I like the little light in the back of them.

I look at these knives & am trying to justify the cost in my head to get one.
http://store.ar15.com/store/product.html?cat=11&prod=127

But what makes a knife worth so much? I just carry them in a pocket, so belt clips are nothing to me & for that price, I could buy a dozen Mtechs.
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

UPDATE: After some research & my curiosity getting the better of me, I've decided to try the SOG Trident if I can find one at this upcoming gunshow.
Think my choice is a good carry knife? I went back thru all 8 pages & there was nothing on them.


Benchmade Griptillian, Spyderco Manix2, Delica or Endura, Kershaw makes some nice -$100 offerings, Benchmade 710 is right around $100. I haven't personally seen a SOG, so I can't comment but good job stepping it up.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 8:45:36 AM EDT
OP, to echo what everyone else has said, "you get what you pay for."

Google is your friend. There are plenty of SOG Trident reviews online.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:23:07 AM EDT
My trident is great. Carry it on duty every day. It's not very robust though, I wouldn't want to use it for heavy duty stuff... The regular box opening, cord cutting stuff is fine. Got mine on steepandcheap.com for something like $35.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 9:27:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2011 9:28:29 AM EDT by Spartanatheart]
Originally Posted By forrestcook:
My trident is great. Carry it on duty every day. It's not very robust though, I wouldn't want to use it for heavy duty stuff... The regular box opening, cord cutting stuff is fine. Got mine on steepandcheap.com for something like $35.


Like what? Define "heavy duty".

And $35? The ones I was looking at were closer to $80.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 10:18:20 AM EDT
Steepandcheap.com sells things at 50% or more off... They get SOG and CRKT knives from time to time. Heavy duty like applications where a thin blade might chip... Can't think of anything specifically since all I really use mine for is the mundane tasks. I'm not out les stroud-ing my way through building a shelter and spear fishing with my knife. My only point is that it is a folder, so know the general limitations of folding vs fixed blade. It's also a thin blade (most folders are) so lots of torque might damage the blade faster than a thicker knife.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 11:35:51 AM EDT
I've snagged several sog's off steepandcheap over the years. Actually, they are what got me into knives. I've got a twitch XL, a flash2, a twitch 2 and several of their multi tools. Their quality isn't bad at all. I have several spyderco and kershaw folders now as well. I still regularly carry my SOGs and I actually have one i leave in my desk at work for whatever.

I didn't pay over $45 for any of them fyi, but this was all from steepandcheap.


You can get some VERY nice knives in the $50-$75 dollar range.

Spyderco's tenacious series of knives are superb for their price points, and Kershaw has some very good offereings in that rang. Check out the Blurs.
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 3:18:45 PM EDT
Get a kershaw blur man. You can get it at walmart and it's a nice solid knife that will last you a while. It's like 50 bucks. It's straight forward no real bells and whistles. It feels good in the hand. It's a solid knife.

Review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gzRUvC8znM
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:48:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FormUnknown:
Get a kershaw blur man. You can get it at walmart and it's a nice solid knife that will last you a while. It's like 50 bucks. It's straight forward no real bells and whistles. It feels good in the hand. It's a solid knife.

Review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gzRUvC8znM


i bought a Kershaw Blur, for my wife. that is really the most "bang for the buck" i've ever seen in a modern folder and Kershaw's customer service is about the best i've ever dealt with.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:07:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redneck_indian:
Originally Posted By FormUnknown:
Get a kershaw blur man. You can get it at walmart and it's a nice solid knife that will last you a while. It's like 50 bucks. It's straight forward no real bells and whistles. It feels good in the hand. It's a solid knife.

Review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gzRUvC8znM


i bought a Kershaw Blur, for my wife. that is really the most "bang for the buck" i've ever seen in a modern folder and Kershaw's customer service is about the best i've ever dealt with.



I didn't like the style of grips on the ones I saw.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:08:22 AM EDT
I've been buying quality benchmades and kershaws since 8th grade with my own money. I still edc them today in college and never once regretted my purchase. Are you saying my 8th grade budget was higher than what your current one is? I wanted quality because I wanted to know that when my blade came out, the the locking wouldn't fail or the blade wouldn't snap during use. Now if a 14 year old could figure this out, why can't a guy with 6800+ posts?
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