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Posted: 8/15/2008 10:57:39 AM EDT
OK, I don't want to get into the whole MSAR/Steyr debate here, but I wondered what everyone's thoughts are on mags..

I am planning to wait and pick up one of the new Steyrs.. of course if that doesn't pan out I can fall back on a MSAR instead..

I realize that MSAR mags will work in the real AUGs but not the other way around.. has anybody had any problems with the MSAR mags?? (I could care less about an AUG clone that takes AR15 mags, so don't worry about suggesting that as an option)

Basically should I stock up on real AUG mags ($35-40/ea) and anticipate getting the real thing, or stock up on MSAR mags ($30-35/ea) with the option to use them in a MSAR if necessary?? Hopefully this won't be the case but who knows..

On another note, have they said the new Steyr rifle will use the standard AUG mags?? That is probably assumed but I could easily imagine ATF stating that they would need to use a modified design so that they aren't compatible with those old evil mags that weren't made in the USA??

Hope that doesn't stir up a bunch of sh*t but I would like to stock up on mags now and wait and see what happens in a few months..

I am kicking myself for selling all of my AUGs and accessories a few years ago, but I guess the mag price was about double back then..

Thanks for your comments!

Link Posted: 8/15/2008 12:57:05 PM EDT
[#1]
AUG mags, (and AUG beta mags) work great in the MSAR platform with a 30 second modification to the mag (or the rifle itself) and then the mags can still be used in either rifle.  MSAR mags are very well made.  
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 1:58:16 PM EDT
[#2]
I thought I read somewhere that someone was complaining that the MSAR mags didnt work all that well in a real AUG?  Am I mistaken?  Has anyone tried it?  Problems?  
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 2:51:44 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
I thought I read somewhere that someone was complaining that the MSAR mags didnt work all that well in a real AUG?  Am I mistaken?  Has anyone tried it?  Problems?  


I've talked to a couple guys who have both the MSAR and the Steyr.  Both said the MSAR mags, "worked perfectly" in the AUG.  It seems that MSAR is catching up with the mag production, as there are more and more out there every day.  They would do well to advertise the AUG compatibility and drop the price a bit to get the prospective Steyr purchasers a reason to buy them.


MSAR on the left, Steyr on the right.  Difference is MSAR puts a rib in their magwell that requires a cut-out in the ribs at the back of the mag.  A minute with a file would mod the mag or the stock.

Link Posted: 8/15/2008 3:43:14 PM EDT
[#4]
As it stands right now I actually think the MSAR mags are better.


Who knows though whether Steyr will update their Mags as well. In the past the Austrians have pretty much set the standard for polymer so I wouldn't be shocked if they toss out a seriously bad #$5 new polymer magazine.
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 4:08:58 PM EDT
[#5]
The MSAR mag is a bad ass magazine.  I worked for a while last winter in the gunroom at MSAR.  I personally saw over 1000 MSAR-STG556 rifles test fired.  Every rifle was fired at least 9 rounds before shipping.  Only 6 magazines (which were picked for testing only because they had cosmetic defects) were used for testing and I never once saw a magazine realated malfunction.  The mags are awesome.  Everybody has heard of Tony driving the Hummer H1 over the mag, that really happened and it really didnt hurt the mag.  I also did a little test of my own.  I weigh 275lbs and brought my wood heeled cowboy boot down on a magazine several times like I was trying to kickstart my Shovelhead cold and the magazine was undamaged.  Try that with any AR mag ya got!!
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 4:15:16 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
The MSAR mag is a bad ass magazine.  I worked for a while last winter in the gunroom at MSAR.  I personally saw over 1000 MSAR-STG556 rifles test fired.  Every rifle was fired at least 9 rounds before shipping.  Only 6 magazines (which were picked for testing only because they had cosmetic defects) were used for testing and I never once saw a magazine realated malfunction.  The mags are awesome.  Everybody has heard of Tony driving the Hummer H1 over the mag, that really happened and it really didnt hurt the mag.  I also did a little test of my own.  I weigh 275lbs and brought my wood heeled cowboy boot down on a magazine several times like I was trying to kickstart my Shovelhead cold and the magazine was undamaged.  Try that with any AR mag ya got!!


The vid I saw of the Hummer going over the MSAR mag was just the mag body w/o the floorplate or follower to strengthen it.  Gotta be strong to take that!  AR mags have been regarded as one of the weak parts of the system.  That's the reason for PMag, Lancer, etc.
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 6:38:36 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
As it stands right now I actually think the MSAR mags are better.


Why do you think that?

Is it because you can pour gun scrubber on the MSAR mags and it won't etch them?

How many times have you heard of guys ruining their AUG mags because they used gun scrubber to clean them? I think the AUG mags are just fine.

MSAR mag marterial is over kill, I'm sure in the near future you will see them using the cheaper polymer material.
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 6:41:59 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
I thought I read somewhere that someone was complaining that the MSAR mags didnt work all that well in a real AUG?  Am I mistaken?  Has anyone tried it?  Problems?  


I have had both guns, STG & AUG

Switching the mags on either gun isn't always 100% reliable.

Look at the mags closely and you will see they are some what different.

For best results use AUG mags in your AUG and STG mags in your STG, period!!
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 6:57:01 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Everybody has heard of Tony driving the Hummer H1 over the mag, that really happened and it really didnt hurt the mag.



Quoted:
The vid I saw of the Hummer going over the MSAR mag was just the mag body w/o the floorplate or follower to strengthen it.  


I thought you guys were smarter then this

Sure Tony drove the Hummer over the STG mag, but afterwards you didn't see him assemble the mags and use it, right??? Any of you guys can try this at home, take a STG mag and run over it with your car or truck and you will see that it somewhat flattens it and you can't reassemble it and use it afterwards.

How do I know you ask? I tried it.

Same applies to the AUG mags, plastic HK & Sig Mags. None are indestructible. The only gain you have with the MSAR mag is the gun scrubber test.


By the way, Tony didn't run over the mag with the floor plate and follower because once the mag gets crushed the floor plate and follower flys of!!

Try it yourself if you think I'm full of it.  

I personally wouldn't pay $10 extra bucks for an STG mag just for the gun scrubber benefit!!
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 7:23:50 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

I personally wouldn't pay $10 extra bucks for an STG mag just for the gun scrubber benefit!!


I would.

Too each their own.

I don't give a damn about the Hummer test the simple fact is that it uses a better polymer and works well in the AUG.
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 7:28:22 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I personally wouldn't pay $10 extra bucks for an STG mag just for the gun scrubber benefit!!


I would.

Too each their own.

I don't give a damn about the Hummer test the simple fact is that it uses a better polymer and works well in the AUG.


How do you know it works well in an AUG??

STG barrels don't even work in an AUG, what make you sure the mags would?

Hell, AUG barrels don't even work in an STG!!
Link Posted: 8/15/2008 8:02:41 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

How do you know it works well in an AUG??


I'll quote myself from a few posts up.


Quoted:

I've talked to a couple guys who have both the MSAR and the Steyr.  Both said the MSAR mags, "worked perfectly" in the AUG.


Man, people have a lot of angst in the Bullpup Forums today.  
Link Posted: 8/16/2008 4:09:18 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

How do you know it works well in an AUG??

STG barrels don't even work in an AUG, what make you sure the mags would?

Hell, AUG barrels don't even work in an STG!!


Because I've used them in an A2 without issue so far.

Plus, MSAR advertises them as working for both their rifles and with Steyr AUGs.  The video over at MSAR talks about this a bit I think.

Mags aren't that hard to do folks, this isn't rocket science or gas systems here.  

My guess is though that the new AUG will have probably the same type of polymer in their new mags if not something better so we'll see how it plays out.


Link Posted: 8/16/2008 6:07:00 PM EDT
[#14]
I have modified my rifle to use unmodified AUG mags.  I do prefer the feel of the MSAR mags and will continue buying them.  
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 3:27:27 PM EDT
[#15]
I just bought a MSAR and found someone with used AUG magazines.  On a whim I bought one and it does fit into the magwell (but it is pretty tight).  It also locks the slide back and with a little coaxing, can be pulled from the gun.

I live in a "Ban State" (MA) and STG mags would be considered post ban.  My only option seems to be the AUG mags.  I've seen some posts about the AUG mags working with some modification.  Has anyone had any experience with problems in modifying the AUG mags for the STG?

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 3:48:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Latest from the rumor mill is that the soon-to-be-released MSAR stocks will accept AUG mags without modification.  

Looking at the magwell, it would only take a minute with an emory board or bit of sandpaper to relieve the ridge that prevents AUG mags from working.  

Hopefully MSAR will provide an upgrade program for existing owners, as they are rumored to have dropped the forward assist as well.
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 4:47:16 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
Latest from the rumor mill is that the soon-to-be-released MSAR stocks will accept AUG mags without modification.  

Looking at the magwell, it would only take a minute with an emory board or bit of sandpaper to relieve the ridge that prevents AUG mags from working.  

Hopefully MSAR will provide an upgrade program for existing owners, as they are rumored to have dropped the forward assist as well.


As much as I would like to believe that MSAR would offer an 'upgrade program' nothing in their history would suggst such a thing will happen.  
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 5:42:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Steyr is pretty amazing with polymer folks.

We're talking about a group of crazy OCD Austrians who put out Translucent Polymer Mags back in 1977.  The new AUG mags are going to be pretty sweet.

My hope is competition will drive down the price.

Link Posted: 9/5/2008 10:50:11 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Latest from the rumor mill is that the soon-to-be-released MSAR stocks will accept AUG mags without modification.  

Looking at the magwell, it would only take a minute with an emory board or bit of sandpaper to relieve the ridge that prevents AUG mags from working.  

Hopefully MSAR will provide an upgrade program for existing owners, as they are rumored to have dropped the forward assist as well.


As much as I would like to believe that MSAR would offer an 'upgrade program' nothing in their history would suggst such a thing will happen.  


They might have to pull out some stops if Steyr hits the market hard.  We can only hope!
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 5:43:24 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Latest from the rumor mill is that the soon-to-be-released MSAR stocks will accept AUG mags without modification.  

Looking at the magwell, it would only take a minute with an emory board or bit of sandpaper to relieve the ridge that prevents AUG mags from working.  

Hopefully MSAR will provide an upgrade program for existing owners, as they are rumored to have dropped the forward assist as well.


As much as I would like to believe that MSAR would offer an 'upgrade program' nothing in their history would suggst such a thing will happen.  


They might have to pull out some stops if Steyr hits the market hard.  We can only hope!


If they get their heads out of their butt maybe they'll offer a STANAG stock.  Despite what some people may say about the durability of Stanag mags, I don't think there is any argument that a lot of people would buy the stock after the fact, or an MSAR that came from the factory with the stock.

As far as mags are concerened, my suggestion:

If you are buying a Steyr AUG, get Steyr AUG mags
If you are buying an MSAR, get MSAR mags
If you are getting a STANAG compatible AUG, get STANAG mags

Pretty simple in my opinion- I would not monkey around with the MSAR/AUG mag 'interchangeability' which has not been proven 100% successful.

Dawg
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 6:54:20 AM EDT
[#21]
I would normally agree with you (About getting the right mag for the right rifle)but I live in a state that has banned magazines made after 1993.  AUG mags are really the only way I could legally go.  

I modified one AUG mag an it seems to fit nicely in the STG.  I have only owned the rfle since yesterday, and I have not had a chance to shoot it.  But it goes in and comes on freely, locks open on empty and the slide release works.  I can't see any negatives.

Has anyone had any negative experiences using modified AUG mags in a STG?  I am about to purchase 6 AUG magazines (as these are my only legal option other than the 1 rounders).  Any responses prior to my shipping out alot of mony would help.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 10:09:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Nobody has asked what I think is a fairly obvious question yet.  Since the US made Steyr AUG is still vaporware, what's to say that it will use the same mags as the Austrian made AUGs?  Has Steyr told anyone that it will use the same mags?  I wouldn't stock up on $40 used mags of used condition and unknown round count until the rifle goes on sale and is confirmed to use the exact same magazines.  

What if Steyr decides to come out with an "improved magazine" for the US variant?  You'll look like the guys who stocked up on Glock 21 magazines in anticipation of the "slim fit" variant coming on the market.  Whoops!
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Latest from the rumor mill is that the soon-to-be-released MSAR stocks will accept AUG mags without modification.  

Looking at the magwell, it would only take a minute with an emory board or bit of sandpaper to relieve the ridge that prevents AUG mags from working.  

Hopefully MSAR will provide an upgrade program for existing owners, as they are rumored to have dropped the forward assist as well.


As much as I would like to believe that MSAR would offer an 'upgrade program' nothing in their history would suggst such a thing will happen.  


They might have to pull out some stops if Steyr hits the market hard.  We can only hope!


First off I have an STG 556 and this post isn't at all a rip on MSAR.  Just want folks to know that.

MSAR may very well adapt, but they are such a mid-sized operation that it's pretty hard for them to take a new design and crank it out as fast now that they're trying to sell their current rifles and they've got the MCS and they've go various things like the 6.8 SPC kit still to do.

A lot of pies, but not enough fingers right now.

That said, I think they're doing a great job now of being able to supply accessories, parts, and rifles. MSAR is humming along nice. I also know though that the MCS is going to sell pretty damn well if they do offer it at very close to the $1K mark. I hope they can keep up with the demand.

I'm hot and tired from range work all this morning so I hope this post makes sense.

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