I was just wondering why do some  people seem to have a problem with Olympic Arms?

Is there product junk?

Did some people have a bad experience with Olympic Arms in the past so they spread the word that Olympic Arms is no good, without trying to rectify the issue?

Are so many people just stuck on Bushmaster and Colt that Olympic Arms does not get recognized?

Why was Olympic Arms taken off the industry forum?

Is there some kind of dispute between Olympic Arms and Ar15.com that has produced some ill feeling?

I have noticed that there is a person who goes buy the name of "Oly Hater"? Why is such a name allowed on this board? Does this not violate the ethics of the board codes of slander and harrassment of a specific manufacturer?

I am just wondering does the Owners of AR15.com have a problem with Olympic Arms so they are allowing slander,and harrassment of a specific manufacturer to go on to validate there own personal ill feelings towards Olympic Arms?

I am just a person wondering why Olympic Arms seems to be picked on so much on this site?

I own an olympic Arms AR15. I love it. Shoots great, have no problems with my rifle what so ever.  Every time I have called Olympic Arms to ask questions they have been very helpful. So I am just a little confused about all the ill feelings towards Olympic Arms since I have had very good dealings with them?

They seem to be taking a beating on every internet forum (Including FNFAL.COM) ; I own 2 , a HBAR AR15 and one of their T48 FNFAL clones . Both work fine and since I live only 30 minutes from them I stop off once and awhile to see whats new . Sometimes they seem a little stand offish but after the beating they usually get I can understand why . Most likely something to do with past preformances , who knows ?

I have an Olympic AR and have not had any problems with it.  I actually like it!

The question about the Industry board...well, I think that the companies had to pay a fee to stay listed on the board.  (I may be wrong about this)

medcop

I don't know anything about the forum politics issue, but I do know that I have a pre-ban Colt AR and a post-ban Oly AR, and of the two the Oly is head and shoulder above the Colt in fit, finsh, and accuracy.

God help me for saying it out loud, but, I had always heard they had a bad safety record. (Please take it easy, I'm just the messenger!) Now, I did give them the chance at the 2002 Shot Show and stopped by and spent a good amount of time going over their stuff for fit and finish. It was pretty nice. I think they finally also got rid of that ugly pistol grip they used to use.

Right now I have 8 PreBan Oly ARs
They all have a nice black finish,fit is goodpins are all proper and they have never had a FTF.
The three with the SUM barrels are three of the four most accurate ARs I own.
I like em.
But then I like all my ARs and I have at least two from each Preban Mfgr.
cpermd

My Oly works just fine.  No complaints.

The two I have access to (mine and a friend's) work just fine if you clean them properly.

Kharn

I love the Oly stuff I have and have tried, my only complaint is that they take to long to fill their orders. I have been waiting since Feb. for my lowers to get to FAC. If I didn't like them so much I would of bought another brand.

Ditto on the Olys being fine in performance. My Oly kit gun has never had a hiccup in 2000+ rounds fired.

MM3,
My Oly PCR4 is great!  Fit, finish, and accuracy is all I could ask for.

I did have to smooth one of the feed ramps when first purchased, but perfect since then.

Now I'm looking at their 16" bull-barrel, flat-top for my next AR.

Regards, Brisco

My two OLYs have been fine, too.

I think that Oly has had public relations problems in the past that still haunt them.

I don't currently own an Oly yet.
I have seen them, they seem just fine to me.
I plan on getting a 9mm upper from them when I get the cash.
I would have no problem owning one.

There seems to be a problem with Oly, but no one knows what it is.  Everyone knows someone that had a problem, but they don't know what the problem was.  It could be a myth like the Mattel AR stocks.  Sometime long ago, Oly made a mistake, and for some unknown reason it keeps coming back.

I had an Oly 9mm rifle I built from Oly parts.  The quality was very good and it went bang each time.  When I ordered it, it took a little longer than they said, but this was late last year, and they were very busy.

Some say Oly makes the best stock barrel out there, but I have never had one so I don't know on this.

I have a PCR-9 (9mm AR), and I love it!  Fit and finish is excellent!  I had some problems at the beginning, but it was fixed quickly and without problems.  I would not hesitate to buy one again.

ANother satisfied Oly owner.

I've owned their Dissipator (my first AR) and currently own their M4gery upper, 40 S&W pistol caliber upper, and their maxhard lower.

Fit and finish comparable to anyone else out their ('cept maybe Armalite, but Armalite IS $300 more, they SHOULD be a better prodoct)

I think its a Ford vs. Chevy thing.

Y'know, it just dawned on me.  People have a distaste for Oly, and I don't think it is necessarily because of their products.

After reading this thread:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=114840 and several others in the last couple of years, it seems that Olympic Arms is often swirled in some sort of controversy that creates negative publicity.  Their dirty laundry is hanging on the line for everyone to see (and comment on in a public forum.)

Just an observation.

Have several myself, I've never had a problem with any of them.  Some of my friends that own bushy's and RRA's can't say the same thing.  

I don't know why some people don't like them.

Why was Olympic Arms taken off the industry forum?

I think I would have left too, as much crap as they got

Raf wrote:

Well, for one thing, you can thank Olympic Arms for screwing every gunowner who is or will be shooting 7.62x39 ammo.

Well I read that article and the way I see it is that the ATF is the real culprit in who screwed every gunowner who is or will be shooting 7.62x39mm ammo.

There were already pistols out on the market from other manufacturers that used this ammo the article states this plainly and shows picturers of them.

My question after reading that article is why was it Olympic Arms sole responsibility to argue the situation with the ATF when there were other manufacturers produceing such a handgun?

Olympic Arms plainly stated in the article that the OA93 chambered in this ammo was not sold to anyone, yes it was available at the shot show in 1994 but it would appear from the article that one was not sold. Olympic Arms even said in the article check the bound books and the ATF file. Plus it is obvious from reading the article that the ATF lied in stateing that olympic arms sold an OA93 pistol chambered in 7.62x39mm. Maybe the ATF got there pistols confused with one chambered in .223?

To me others should have stood up possibly together with olympic arms to make an appeal with the ATF to not ban such ammo.

So to me this is another situation were olympic arms is being made the scape goat, and being picked on. Others within this situation were just as responsible for such a ban, I think that the ATF was just looking for someone to pin the issue on and it fell on Olympic Arms lap. It was and is pretty obvious that the ATF is out to make firearm ownership fairly hard, and within the interworkings of the ATF political gain is obviously the goal, so I see nothing in that article that would make Olympic Arms the only manufactuer responsible for such a ban on ammo.

It is obvious that the ATF is the real culprit in such a ban not olympic arms! Olympic Arms was not the only manufacturer of such a pistol chambered in a banned ammo.

The thing that JUMPED out at me was....

Did you notice the name of the asshole (sorry) a-hole that said "steel core is armor piercing..."

John W. Magaw


SAME asshole (sorry) a-hole that banned guns from places where pilots could use them to prevent Sept 11 events.

SINCE WHEN did these mini dictators determine US law unilaterally????


Sorry raf -

But seems to me we ought be blaming the (ahem) a-holes who MAKE ridiculuous laws and unConstitutional edicts, and NOT gun sellers / manufacturers who run afoul of them.

My opinion..... (as you know, I've ALWAYS got one  )

Quoted: I think its a Ford vs. Chevy thing.

It is Add one more to the satisfied list.

Raf wrote:

Except that OLY was the most visible and had the capacity, unlike the other "manufacturers" -really garage-type mfrs- to make and sell the pistol on a widespread basis.

Add to this the fact, unrebutted as yet, that OLY KNEW about the pending ATF action beforehand, and did NOTHING to help prevent it, and the "scapegoat" business wears thin pretty fast.

Well I took some time to re-read the article about this whole mess of the ammo ban and a few other things jumped out at me.

1. Olympic Arms was not the only manufacturer makeing these pistols, others yes may have caved into the bullying from the ATF but olympic did not at the time.

2. This one says it all:

In a subsequent interview, Cates thought that there was yet another company, Mars Imports of Wichita Falls, Texas, who has made these guns, which fact the author was later able to document in an interview with one of Mars' principals, but Cates was unable to explain why ATF had never moved on the steel core 7.62 X 39mm based on the existence of the Mars Imports "pistol" in that cambering. (One possibility is that at the time Mars was in operation in Texas, there was a Texan in the White House who was slightly more sympathetic to gun owners than his successor from Arkansas.

Sounds to me that ATF looked the other way until Clinton got in the White House and then all hell broke loose on gun manufactuers and gun owners. I think I stated in my earlier post as to that the ATF is politically motivatated.

Just because someone is produceing a firearm in a "Garage" type setting does not omit them from knowing and following the laws set forth by the State,Federal,and ATF laws. It is there responsibilty to know and to follow the laws, it seems to me that the so called " Garage" type manufacturer was overlooked due to politics, and Olympic Arms was made the scape goat one being because they are a big manufactuere, meaning deep pockets to make an issue out of the sitution, and the political climate changed within the ATF due to a New President. Plus Mars built alot more of these guns then Olympic Arms did at the time and intoduced them into the market. Olympic Arms says that none of there pistols were sold, they were alll prototypes held "in house", and only one left to be evaluted, and was returned.

I still stand on that the ATF is the culprit in this huge mess, not Olympic Arms. If anyting all the manufactueres of these pistols should have come together and tried to do something about it, not Olympic Arms alone, but I guess if you are a large manufacturer It is assumed that you have deep pockets to fight things out in court by yourself, and if you are a small manufactuer you have shallow pockets so there fore you are not responsible for breaking the laws.

I still see nothing wrong with Olympic Arms actions. Even if they were warned, they were not the only manufactueres that knew of this issue that the ATF was about to raise, reason being is that Someone had to tell Olympic Arms, and it sure does not appear to be from the ATF!!!!!!!!!!!

Olympic Arms still is being made to be the scape goat, and the ice is just getting even more thicker on that note, not thinner!!!!!!!!

Besides do you think that just because the ATF is a federal institution they have integrity? Does any one ever think that maybe the ATF can/would ever manufacturer a lie to further there postition.

I initially had problems with an Oly 16" upper that I bought used. The bolt would fail to close all the way consistantly, this was with Q3131, Q3131A and SA ammo. It took a while for me to figure out the problem, but the charging handle was poorly made (the channel where the gas key rides was not milled straight, and was not on center with the hole for the gas tube) and was pushing the carrier out of alignment with the gas tube as it tried to go into battery. I replaced it with milspec charging handle, replaced the gas tube and the problem stopped. I ran 250 rounds of SA ammo through it yesterday without any stoppages of any kind.

I don't know if the charging handle was original Olympic or if it was replaced by the previous owner, but I am now happy with it. FWIW

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry raf - But seems to me we ought be blaming the (ahem) a-holes who MAKE ridiculuous laws and unConstitutional edicts, and NOT gun sellers / manufacturers who run afoul of them. My opinion..... (as you know, I've ALWAYS got one  ) No problem, Garandman.  Clearly the ATF is a villain in this matter. My point is that OLY is one as well for making a bad situation much worse, and not lifting a finger to forestall it or fight back when the ATF made their ruling. This abortion had more than one parent.

If thats the case then someone please tell me how in the heck was OlyArms supposed to MAKE the ATF change their ruling ??? I've yet to see a private company change the direction a government entity will take , because if this is possible then please explain why is Microsoft going through what they are !

I Love my OLY. I've only had one problem the bolt broke in two pieces, other than that its a great rifle and the bolt can break in any AR.

Quoted: Quoted: My point is that OLY is one as well for making a bad situation much worse, and not lifting a finger to forestall it or fight back when the ATF made their ruling. This abortion had more than one parent. If thats the case then someone please tell me how in the heck was OlyArms supposed to MAKE the ATF change their ruling ??? I've yet to see a private company change the direction a government entity will take , because if this is possible then please explain why is Microsoft going through what they are !

I tend to agree.

Oly's sin was in making a legal product that a mini-dictator with a Napoleon complex (Magaw) unConstitutionally wanted to ban.

If that's the standard, Tapco and DSA are EQUALLY guilty with their Steyr-copy FAL muzzle brake that ATF wanted to ban (under the 1994 crime bill re: so-called 'evil features.")

Forgive me, but I just don't hold Oly guilty for wanting to make a legal product, and make a profit by FLAUNTING unConstitutional edicts by a dictator like Magaw.

I'd rather hold Ruger and S&W accountable for knuckling under to dictators like Magaw.

You can't have it both ways - blame Ruger for knuckling under, AND blame Oly for refusing to.

My $0.05 (adjusted for inflation)

Quoted: The Answer lies in the article quoted above.  OLY should have sued the ATF.  As was noted in the article, there was industry support for such an action, and the individual who originally wrote the regulation had a track record of being reversed on suit/appeal. OLY did neither, thus screwing thousands of firearms owners.  They also missed a chance to overturn the regulation which, had they filed suit and won, would not be on the books now. .

I don't think anyone is disputing that in a perfect world, Oly would have sued ATF to overturn the ruling, much like DSA and tapco did with their Steyr-copy brake.

So, we ask, WHAT stopped Oly???

Well, same thing that is stopping you and me from suing ATF right now to overturn the ruling - time and money.

One of the ways the antis desire to destroy gun ownership is thru bleeding gun manufacturers to death with legal suits. My dealings with Oly tell me they neither had (have?) the capital or the mental firepower to travel that road. They are essentially a small machine shop.

YES, ideally Oly would have sued to overturn the dictatorial ruling - yet I can understand on some levels the decision not to. Damned if ya do, AND if ya don't.

SO, for now, I'll take Olys / Ruger's / S&W's current actions / products as the deciding factor whther or not I support them with my gun buying dollars. You don't seem to want to hold Rugers old actions against them, and I don't seem to want to hold Oly's old actions against them.

Tweachisown.......

originally by raf: Disagree. Apparently, OLY had the support of other participants in this mess, so the theory of "poor l'il OLY against the ATF" doesn't quite hold up. So which is it? First you talk about "current" actions being the decisive factor, then you speak of ignoring "old" actions.

raf -

I'm REALLY to tired of all the bickering to get into an argument with you. You got your thing, I got mine, which does NOT include holding a major beef against EITHER Ruger or Oly.

Don't like Oly? Don't buy their stuff. That'll show 'em.

Have a nice day.  

Quoted: No problem, Garandman, you have a nice day, too.

BOTH of you have a nice phucking day !!

Another satisfied Oly owner here.

I had one customer service issue.  Tom S. hooked me up with a technician, Steve H. and in three weeks time (including two weeks for shipping) the problem was solved with an extra cost option added (at no charge) to speed turn around time.  This occurred within a couple of weeks of Sept. 11, so I was quite pleased with the turn-a-round time.

As far as the law suit thing goes:  It is not Oly's fight to go up against the BATF on an ammo issue.  They are not ammo importers.  The ammo importers needed to take that one to court.

If memory serves, the the last time I looked at SGN 7.62x39 was listed at about $110/1000, so what's the whining for?

OK so you want armor piercing 7.62x39...  Why?   It was never that good at piercing steel to begin with and most high velocity hunting rounds will out-penetrate 7.62x39.

Kent

I cant figure out Olympic Arms, they are the company you love to hate.  The two rifles I owned were real klunkers, but another soldier in my unit has a real nice one and he loves it.  I dont care what anybody says, I have never seen an Oly rifle with better fit & finish than my pre and post ban Colts.  My opinion is that most of the perceived problems come from Oly's internet personality, Tom Spithaler, and have little to do with reality.  If Olympic Arms has the market share they claim why do'nt they have a presence here? Why do'nt they try to leagally fight some of the ATF crap?  I suggest they Dump Tom, get their foum back here, start treating their customers right, and make good rifles.        

Raf - As for Ruger atoning , have you tried to use an aftermarket mag in one of their new .223 Mini-14 Ranch Rifles . Big surprise ! They don't fit anymore !

I have owned two of Oly's SUM barrels.  They have been excellent.  I have never had a complete Oly rifle.  I agree that the 7.62x39 pistol was a bad idea on their part.  Watch-Six

Quoted: Raf - As for Ruger atoning , have you tried to use an aftermarket mag in one of their new .223 Mini-14 Ranch Rifles . Big surprise ! They don't fit anymore !

Yep, I confirmed that at my friends gunstore over the weekend after hearing about it here.

I currantly own Colt's and Bushy's, I had an Oly and I think the only differance between them are that Oly seems to be 1 step behind in the finish of their rifles and attention to detail, and their finish is not quite as nice. But other than those simple cosmetic details the Oly's shoot and function just as good as them if not better. I guess also that is why they are cheaper in price, I wouldn't hesitate to own another they are great rifles.

Olympic Arms sucks because of their inconcistancies in production.  over the years, i have read about some absurd product defects from Olympic Arms.

They have a procedure for reworking their receivers when customers are unhappy.  There should be no need for such a policy because receivers requiring rework should never leave the plant.

I do believe that Oly has a good market share. But not because their junk is good, just because their junk is cheap.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Raf - As for Ruger atoning , have you tried to use an aftermarket mag in one of their new .223 Mini-14 Ranch Rifles . Big surprise ! They don't fit anymore ! Yep, I confirmed that at my friends gunstore over the weekend after hearing about it here. No kidding? I didn't believe that one when I heard that-how did Ruger do that? Do the old 5 round mags fit the new guns?

We didn't try that combination, so I can't say the old 5 rounders don't fit for certain, but my guess would be that they don't. The 20 round mag wouldn't lock into place and it felt like magazine well had been necked down just enough to make it impossible to insert. Isn't it great when gun makers do their best to drive away their customers with stupid PC crap like this?

Quoted: Quoted: I think its a Ford vs. Chevy thing. It is Add one more to the satisfied list.

Agree on that one. Add me also to the satisfied list.

C-2-6 Out!

Hey RAF

You never responded to my 2nd response on this whole ammo issue.

I really dont want to get into some pissing contest over this, but this article that you posted clearly states that there was another company, Mars manufactureing in Texas, that was actually produceing and selling these pistols to the public well before olympic arms was! Do you not see this fact?

Mars actually placed more of these pistols into the market place then did olympic arms, since olympic arms accounted for all of there pistols "in house".

I think the count would be for pistols actually sold to the civilian market would go something like this:

OLYMPIC ARMS: 0 SOLD IN THE MARKET PLACE
MARS MANUFACTUERING:1 - POSSIBLY THOUSANDS SOLD IN THE MARKET PLACE.

Olmpic arms is not at fault for this whole ammo ban that had happened. I think olympic arms was just the company that the ATF just used as a reason to begin the ordeal and place manufactuers in place, since the political climate changed within the whitehouse at the time of the ammo ban.

Olympic Arms is not at fault for the ammo ban, it is the ATF,Clinton administration, and all the anti-gun puke in this nation that is responsible for the ammo ban.

Within that article that you posted there is not one shread of evidence that supports your opinion that other individuals within the firearms community would have come along side Olympic Arms and fought the ATF on this matter. If there is please quote it from the Article for I might have overlooked that point, and if so then I stand corrected!!!!

Actually it would appear that others within the firearms community kinda tried to keep the issue quiet by trying to say to olympic arms "dont put that pistol on the market, because once you do the ammo ban will go into place", but forgeting that there was another manufacturer already produceing and selling these pistols, pretty easy to put the blame on olympic arms when a good thing was ruined actually by the ATF.

Maybe the ATF decided that they needed to get a handle on the issue because olympic arms was another manufactuer of many, that was introduceing this firearm into the market place, and olympic arms was the straw that broke the camels back?

Does that still make Olympic Arms responsible for the ammo ban?

Or would it be a bunch of manufacturers that raised the eyebrows of the ATF? You can't tell me that the ATF had no knowledge of Mars Manufacturering in Texas actually produceing these pistols and selling to the public?
And useing the phrase" well Mars was a garage type manufacturer" does not work, because even if this is true that they were a garage type manufacturer, Mars introduced more pistols into the market place then Olympic Arms did.

So I stick up for Olympic Arms in saying they were not at fault, and are still being made out to be the scapegoat on this issue! Mainly because alot of people got pissed off because they lost access to cheap ammo, and Olympic Arms was the company to put the blame on, people had to blame someone, even if that blame is not justified.

I think in given that the political climate had changed within the white house, such an ammo ban was going to happen anyway mainly because there was already pistols on the market that used this specific ammo. Olympic Arms was just made out to be the fall guy for such a ban. But to see this, one would need to look at ALL THE FACTS, not just a few.

Quoted: So I stick up for Olympic Arms in saying they were not at fault, and are still being made out to be the scapegoat on this issue! Mainly because alot of people got pissed off because they lost access to cheap ammo, and Olympic Arms was the company to put the blame on, people had to blame someone, even if that blame is not justified.

That's my position.

But raf likes to argue, and I enjoy watching him beat the air.

So everyone is happy.