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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/2/2010 4:40:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 7:24:20 PM EDT by danpass]
UPDATE

Well here it is. A little pressure and it would almost contact the case mouth.

I'll just have to have a gentle touch to make sure ogive distance matches from round to round

Fortunately I only got this to set up the seater die to have as-close-to-same ogive to case head lengths from batch to batch


Click to zoom





I'm going to use it like this for now

Just for seater die setup.

For the curious, in this direction, it is 1.888 for a 77SMK in a .223 case







=========================================

ORIGINAL post

Considering even match bullets have differing tip finishes resulting in different bullet lengths I'd like something that works similar to a case bump gauge.

I know this would give the option to jump bullets, etc but I'm just after consistency in ogive-case head length vs COAL.


Nothing popped up with an ogive title search and I didn't really see anything on the Sinclair site.

thanks



eta: this? http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33236/Product/Davidson_Seating_Depth_Checkers
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:02:02 PM EDT
This is what I use.

RCBS Precision Mic
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:13:29 PM EDT
I bought this and it works great.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34014/Product/Sinclair_Insert_Style_Bullet_Comparator

I also have the shoulder bump inserts for the body.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:40:37 PM EDT
This is what your looking for bullet comparator

Tip: If you already have the Hornady head space gauge set then they boh use the same insert body so you only need to buy the insert sizes for the bullets you plan on using it on, also the Hornady comparator body is the same size as the Sinclair and you can buy the Sinclair inserts instead of the Hornady if you wish and they will work just the same as with the Sinclair comparator body. I have and use both the Hornady and Sinclair shoulder bump and bullet comparator inserts in the Hornady comparator bodies(I have a body for each insert I use, 6 of them) that way all I have to do is screw it on the caliper real fast and after a quick zero I'm ready to go.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:44:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 5:45:16 PM EDT by kingston_fisher]
I use the Hornady case gauge and bullet comparator. I've been very pleased with it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:16:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 6:22:51 PM EDT by danpass]
Originally Posted By Scalce:
I bought this and it works great.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34014/Product/Sinclair_Insert_Style_Bullet_Comparator

I also have the shoulder bump inserts for the body.


but that says "These inserts are not intended to measure rounds seated to magazine length or shorter"

not sure what they measure in that instance lol (bullet length alone?)


eta: I do have body (and shoulder gauge insert) already
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:54:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danpass:

but that says "These inserts are not intended to measure rounds seated to magazine length or shorter"

not sure what they measure in that instance lol (bullet length alone?)

eta: I do have body (and shoulder gauge insert) already


Yeah, I don't really get that statement either.

I did use the inserts to show how bad some pulled 175 bullets I had varied in ogive to bullet base though.

The Sierra's I measured were all pretty damn close.

I use them in my 300 Whisper rounds which can jam in the lands even when seated to mag length.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:02:08 PM EDT
what do you guys think of the item in the op?


I'm setting to mag length with the first few bullets but then I get one that's over, I readjust the seater, then I have to press down the prior rounds. This way they all have the same ogive distance even though COAL may vary between 2.252 - 2.258 (for example)
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:39:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:58:27 PM EDT
newb question


OAL is set in the charts but how do you compare that with the length given off the ogive?

base to tip is X length., but measured from the ogive. where do you get measurements for that?
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 8:16:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
newb question


OAL is set in the charts but how do you compare that with the length given off the ogive?

base to tip is X length., but measured from the ogive. where do you get measurements for that?


I try to find the longest bullet, seat it to mag length, and the rest go from that setting. I'd like to get this ogive thing to measure that particular round and then set my subsequent loading session off that measurement (instead of from COAL).


I did find this before:

Link Posted: 9/2/2010 8:38:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By Scalce:
I bought this and it works great.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34014/Product/Sinclair_Insert_Style_Bullet_Comparator

I also have the shoulder bump inserts for the body.


but that says "These inserts are not intended to measure rounds seated to magazine length or shorter"

not sure what they measure in that instance lol (bullet length alone?)


eta: I do have body (and shoulder gauge insert) already


This is because the inserts are intended to be used with an OAL & modified case tool to find where your bullet contacts the lands at, once you have your measurement from base to lands you use the bullet comparator to measure that distance and how much you are backing the ogive of the bullet off the lands, basically the whole setup is for bolt rifles or long range shooters that seat off the lands and since we base our COL off mag restrictions the whole point of the system is useless for rounds seated to mag length or shorter like they said.

We are using it just as a comparison tool to see how consistent out seating depth is based off the ogive and it works great for that, that's just not what it was designed for and in their eyes it's a waste of time because it's gonna be what it's gonna be no matter what as long as it fits your mags or the longest bullet is at the intended COL. Where just OCD and wont to know if our seating die is more consistent than it seems measuring from the tip of the bullet when "they" could really care less since they are using the best you can get anyway and there is no way to improve on this so why bother even checking, that's their thinking on seating to mag length or less.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:30:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scalce:
I bought this and it works great.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34014/Product/Sinclair_Insert_Style_Bullet_Comparator

I also have the shoulder bump inserts for the body.


Ok, I ordered one of the inserts (22 cal) from this link
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:48:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EWP:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By Scalce:
I bought this and it works great.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34014/Product/Sinclair_Insert_Style_Bullet_Comparator

I also have the shoulder bump inserts for the body.


but that says "These inserts are not intended to measure rounds seated to magazine length or shorter"

not sure what they measure in that instance lol (bullet length alone?)


eta: I do have body (and shoulder gauge insert) already


This is because the inserts are intended to be used with an OAL & modified case tool to find where your bullet contacts the lands at, once you have your measurement from base to lands you use the bullet comparator to measure that distance and how much you are backing the ogive of the bullet off the lands, basically the whole setup is for bolt rifles or long range shooters that seat off the lands and since we base our COL off mag restrictions the whole point of the system is useless for rounds seated to mag length or shorter like they said.

We are using it just as a comparison tool to see how consistent out seating depth is based off the ogive and it works great for that, that's just not what it was designed for and in their eyes it's a waste of time because it's gonna be what it's gonna be no matter what as long as it fits your mags or the longest bullet is at the intended COL. Where just OCD and wont to know if our seating die is more consistent than it seems measuring from the tip of the bullet when "they" could really care less since they are using the best you can get anyway and there is no way to improve on this so why bother even checking, that's their thinking on seating to mag length or less.


EWP is correct on all counts.

The other thing you should know is that most and perhaps all bullet seating dies (definitely true for the Lee 223 die set) seat the bullet via the ogive and not the tip, so even when “match bullets have different tip finishes resulting in different bullet lengths”, if you measure those completed rounds using a bullet comparator which measures its length from the ogive (instead of a regular caliper which measures OAL), all the rounds should be the same length. So if you are not seating the bullet ogive out to the lands (i.e. you can only do this with a big 77 grain + round), there is really no purpose in using a bullet comparator.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:24:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 1:25:41 PM EDT by danpass]
Originally Posted By jlow:
Originally Posted By EWP:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By Scalce:
I bought this and it works great.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34014/Product/Sinclair_Insert_Style_Bullet_Comparator

I also have the shoulder bump inserts for the body.


but that says "These inserts are not intended to measure rounds seated to magazine length or shorter"

not sure what they measure in that instance lol (bullet length alone?)


eta: I do have body (and shoulder gauge insert) already


This is because the inserts are intended to be used with an OAL & modified case tool to find where your bullet contacts the lands at, once you have your measurement from base to lands you use the bullet comparator to measure that distance and how much you are backing the ogive of the bullet off the lands, basically the whole setup is for bolt rifles or long range shooters that seat off the lands and since we base our COL off mag restrictions the whole point of the system is useless for rounds seated to mag length or shorter like they said.

We are using it just as a comparison tool to see how consistent out seating depth is based off the ogive and it works great for that, that's just not what it was designed for and in their eyes it's a waste of time because it's gonna be what it's gonna be no matter what as long as it fits your mags or the longest bullet is at the intended COL. Where just OCD and wont to know if our seating die is more consistent than it seems measuring from the tip of the bullet when "they" could really care less since they are using the best you can get anyway and there is no way to improve on this so why bother even checking, that's their thinking on seating to mag length or less.


EWP is correct on all counts.

The other thing you should know is that most and perhaps all bullet seating dies (definitely true for the Lee 223 die set) seat the bullet via the ogive and not the tip, so even when “match bullets have different tip finishes resulting in different bullet lengths”, if you measure those completed rounds using a bullet comparator which measures its length from the ogive (instead of a regular caliper which measures OAL), all the rounds should be the same length. So if you are not seating the bullet ogive out to the lands (i.e. you can only do this with a big 77 grain + round), there is really no purpose in using a bullet comparator.


the differing tip finish will result in differing COALs.

That is why I'm now going to be measuring off the ogive. I already knew the Lee bullet seater seats off 'somewhere' on the bullet but purposely not off the tip, which is great.

This tool will tell me where the ogive ends up for mag length rounds (COAL based on the longest bullet) and I can set all my subsequent batches off that measurement and forget COAL. All my ogives will be in the same place cartridge to cartridge even if they have differeing COALs.


There, I've said it twice in this thread now
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:44:30 PM EDT
+1 on Hornady and Sinclair works great
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 2:44:27 PM EDT
[This tool will tell me where the ogive ends up for mag length rounds (COAL based on the longest bullet) and I can set all my subsequent batches off that measurement and forget COAL. All my ogives will be in the same place cartridge to cartridge even if they have differeing COALs.[/img]


The tool will certainly help you do this, but I guess I am not sure what real advantage it will give you? As you correctly pointed out, the bullets do vary in actual length due to the tip length differences, but generally if one follow published COAL lengths, you don't run into problems with mag loading. So assuming that is not the problem you are trying to avoid (since it is OK already), then the only potential effect you might be looking for is increase in accuracy. If that is the case, seating the bullets consistently between batches (I assume that they will be consistent within batches already since this is set by the die), will that actually have any significant effect on batch to batch consistency?

It would be nice if it does, but seeing how far I was off the lands in my own case i.e. 0.134”, I am a bit skeptical that the slight differences you will be able to avoid will make any difference. Not trying to discourage you, just trying to help work through this and get some understanding of the pluses and minues.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 3:07:11 PM EDT
Match ammo.

Making one load, 77SMK, for highpower usage across the course. Everywhere from 200-600 yards.

Needs to be the same because there are no sighters in CMP matches.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 4:18:01 PM EDT
Sorry, I was somehow under the impression that you were talking about lighter weight bullets. Now it all makes sense to me.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 3:52:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 3:53:40 PM EDT by danpass]
op updated
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:36:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 7:23:49 PM EDT by danpass]
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:13:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:18:30 PM EDT
I figured it would seat above the 'cannelure'.

It is labeled a bullet comparator and bullets don't simply go thru to the other side so its ok for that but I was hoping it would 'seat' further up.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 5:52:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 5:58:39 PM EDT by rn22723]
I would concentrate on consistentcy of my process of loading, rather nit picking....
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 5:52:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 5:56:23 PM EDT by rn22723]
You will have variances when seating to mag length. The bullets OAL varies........
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:51:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rn22723:
You will have variances when seating to mag length. The bullets OAL varies........


That's why they are using bullet comparators instead of just calipers, the (OAL) they are checking is from the base/case head to bullet ogive, not from the base to the tip of the bullet(COAL), the bullet varies much less at the ogive if any with good match bullets. It doesn't matter what the measurement to the tip of the bullet is as long as the first one(longest one) is shorter than mag length(if your using mag length rounds). The ogive is what comes in contact with the lands/rifling first and this measurement when making match rounds is more important than the COAL that just means they all fit the mag, but if you vary your seating depth to make the COAL(to the tip) the same you just made the OAL to the ogive vary from round to round and each bullet will contact the lands at different times when fired making the rounds slightly less accurate than it could be.

Maybe that makes some sense.
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