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Posted: 9/11/2005 8:04:31 PM EDT
Click here to check them out.

Odds are everyone has seen them if they are watching Katrina news with the NG general that's wearing them.

The first time I saw them in public was when I was in the PX in Hawaii on vacation.

I think they're pretty sharp looking. The look like they probably put a lot of thought into them. I wouldn't mind picking up a set down the road for he hell of it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:13:43 PM EDT
I like the new pockets (we were never allowed to put anything in them before) but Im not sold on the "digital pattern". Maybe if it were a video game with pixels, but what in nature looks like that? Woodland was better IMO.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:42:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 11:45:13 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Too light/grey. stands out in woodland and urban enviroments.




Only acceptable for desert use. Multicam is a better all in one camo.

Ideally the entire US military would use MARPAT for woodland terrain and 6-color desert for Arid terrain.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:43:56 PM EDT
I thought the whole point was that the "shapes" blend easier to the eye?

Basically, no solid lines (like woodland)...
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:44:42 AM EDT
Not a big fan. Pattern too light, although from some pics in Iraq it blends OK. Velcro sux. Like the pockets and arrangement, but wish they had buttons. Zippers sux.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:44:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CENTCOM_Survivor:
I like the new pockets (we were never allowed to put anything in them before) but Im not sold on the "digital pattern". Maybe if it were a video game with pixels, but what in nature looks like that? Woodland was better IMO.



When you're right up on it, yeah, it looks "digital" but from a distance it's breaks up pretty well. Look into a woodline from a distance, there way light and shadows are. It's not like you can pick out individual leaves, because the light and shadows and overlapping foliage breaks everything up. I think that is the intention with the digi-cam/ACU pattern

I agree that multi-cam is better based on the pics from their web site. Not sure why the .mil didn't opt to go with hat pattern. I'm sure, like every other crappy decision it had more to do with politics than function and design.




Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Too light/grey. stands out in woodland and urban enviroments.
www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic02.jpg



Why they woudl choose that picture to try to illustrate its camoflauge ability is beyond me. That guy stands out like a stripper on a pole in church.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:52:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 5:54:02 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:04:20 AM EDT
THEY SHOULD BE BANNED!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:42:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Can't hold a candle to tacpat

www.actiongear.com/agcatalog/pics/rrl88_rrt88.jpg

"Sharp eyes will find “5.11” embedded in the pattern, verifying its authenticity!"


What? No cowbell?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:56:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Can't hold a candle to tacpat

www.actiongear.com/agcatalog/pics/rrl88_rrt88.jpg

"Sharp eyes will find “5.11” embedded in the pattern, verifying its authenticity!"



I've been staring at it for ten minutes... all I see is a sailboat.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 7:34:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 8:02:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 8:02:40 AM EDT by Gamma762]
I've yet to see ACU (in person, TV or a photograph) in a daytime environment where it looks appropriate or functional as "camouflage".
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:10:14 PM EDT
The only thing that looks kind of weird is the big ass swuare of velcro when you have a small unit patch on it. Partly because the square is probably still a little rigid from being new so it makes the sleeves look weird. But I love how everything is velcro backed now... instant sterile uniform. When I deployed we had all of our crap sewn onto our uniforms. When we arrived we were told to take everything off. A month later we were told to put it back on half the uniforms... for when VIP visitors came.

I'm sure the Korean sewing shops are loving being able to charge more for having to put velcro backing on everything. It's probably costing troops a fortune... or at least 2x as much as what the clothing allowance will cover.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:39:02 PM EDT
my SpecOps Brand THE Pack:

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:04:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:21:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 3:19:51 PM EDT by Zakk_Wylde_470]

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
I really like it. So far it seems to work quite well in lots of environments, taking on the tones of the surroundings. Pictures dont portray it accurately. Remember, its not supposed to make you invisible, just harder to see.

Here is some of my stuff.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/ACU4.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/ACUCB.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/ACUMAV1.jpg




I think people often forget that. Plus, most of the articles I've read say that reducing a soldier's IR signiture was one of the main goals of the pattern.



ETA: What parts from Tacitcal Tailor did you use to make that rig. I think I see the 2-piece MAV Vest and the X-Harness, but which pouches? And where'd the Camelbak come from?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:36:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:28:11 AM EDT
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there an "effective range" for any given camp pattern?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:31:06 AM EDT
I don't like the ACU pattern. I work on a Marine base (civilian contractor) and see the MARPAT every day. When the woods are behind the Marines, it's difficult to see them, even when the Marine is five feet from you and the woods are 50+ yards away!

That's why I bought a set Tom
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:32:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:39:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Too light/grey. stands out in woodland and urban enviroments.

www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic02.jpg


Only acceptable for desert use. Multicam is a better all in one camo.

Ideally the entire US military would use MARPAT for woodland terrain and 6-color desert for Arid terrain.


Six color desert was one of the worst performing patterns ever.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:40:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:41:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:47:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Too light/grey. stands out in woodland and urban enviroments.

www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic02.jpg


Only acceptable for desert use. Multicam is a better all in one camo.

Ideally the entire US military would use MARPAT for woodland terrain and 6-color desert for Arid terrain.


Six color desert was one of the worst performing patterns ever.



No kidding? Why? Too busy?



It was basically designed specifically for Iran in either the late 70s or early 80s. They weren't really multi-purpose. The three color desert were designed specifically using the lessons learned from Desert Storm and the 6 color, and they were designed to be more adaptable to other arid environs rather than a specific location like the 6 color.

Discovery had an excellent show on it a couple of years back. They went into the three color and MARPAT extensively.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:11:51 PM EDT
Looks pretty good in this pic from thebomber, in this thread

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:37:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:
Looks pretty good in this pic from thebomber, in this thread

www.darlynn.com/albums/Blackwater2005/Blackwater_phase_1_044.sized.jpg



For sure. If we can just get our enemies to fight al future battles in a gravel pit consisting of mostly peastone our troops will be very well camoflaged. In fact it looks like we finally found the enviroment ACU was designed for.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:40:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:43:45 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Too light/grey. stands out in woodland and urban enviroments.

www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/acu-pic02.jpg


Only acceptable for desert use. Multicam is a better all in one camo.

Ideally the entire US military would use MARPAT for woodland terrain and 6-color desert for Arid terrain.


Six color desert was one of the worst performing patterns ever.



What makes you think so? I have found it ideally suited the the rocky arid mountains of California and deserts of nevada. It would be very good in camo in Afghanistan. It's also a really good pattern for Corn fields in November, surprisingly.

The only place 3-color desert performs better is in a sand dune.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:45:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomcat1066:
I don't like the ACU pattern. I work on a Marine base (civilian contractor) and see the MARPAT every day. When the woods are behind the Marines, it's difficult to see them, even when the Marine is five feet from you and the woods are 50+ yards away!

That's why I bought a set

Tom



+1 I really like my MARPAT pattern BDUs for the above reason as well.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:49:25 PM EDT
AR15fan,
Read my reply to Aimless' question.

If you can get the discovery show on camo. Very interesting stuff about what went into the development of both the three color and MARPAT. I really can't do it justice here.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:59:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 7:00:39 PM EDT by eaglecp]
Im not sure if the picture above is of the newer color or not. The Army did slightly change the color shading of the ACU. The newer shade has more Foliage green and the Light areas are more Tan than grey as they appear in the top photo. It also may be a bad Pic. I have seen it in person and although I still think it should be a little darker , it is being well recieved. It looks much better in person than in photo's. hawkeyes Camelback is probably the closes to what you actually see in person.
cp
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:22:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 7:23:05 PM EDT by Kisara]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The only place 3-color desert performs better is in a sand dune.


+1

Discovery Channel must have never been in CA before.
www.caldrive.com/desert.html
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:22:59 PM EDT
Don't really care for the design but if its helping save lives in the field then I guess I like them.hug.gif
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:28:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
AR15fan,
Read my reply to Aimless' question.



I have not seen the DC show. I did however wear 6-color desert in Desert Shield/Storm and Restore Hope. I have used it extensively since then in many enviroments. I've given 3-color desert a honest try since then too. IME 3-color desert is great in a sand dune (or soot /mud stained snow), not much else. It's simply too light/pale for most enviroments.

Look at 6-color desert up close and the detail makes it look like the so cal desert floor. Back off and view it at distance and notice is a tan base with large brown swatches that break up the human form. 3-color desert at distance looks like cooks whites. up close it looks like cooks whites you spilled coffee on.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:31:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kisara:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The only place 3-color desert performs better is in a sand dune.


+1

Discovery Channel must have never been in CA before.
www.caldrive.com/desert.html



Some have claimed that 6-color desert was designed specifically for the NTA, which although not much like the rolling open desert of the gulf, is very much like the rocky Afghan landscape.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:39:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 8:50:11 PM EDT by Gamma762]

Originally Posted By dport:
Six color desert was one of the worst performing patterns ever.


I would disagree. While a bit light for many areas, the pattern itself is quite good... I've "overdyed" some 6 color to a darker shade with outstanding results. 6 color is one of the few camo patterns where they actually make the pattern elements large enough to be functional.

ETA: They make a bunch of different color combinations of the woodland pattern... 3 color desert for example is the same basic pattern just with color changes... I wish they would make some alternative color combinations using the 6-color pattern.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:41:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Kisara:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The only place 3-color desert performs better is in a sand dune.


+1

Discovery Channel must have never been in CA before.
www.caldrive.com/desert.html



Some have claimed that 6-color desert was designed specifically for the NTA, which although not much like the rolling open desert of the gulf, is very much like the rocky Afghan landscape.


I think it was actually designed for Iran. Similar idea.

And it wasn't the discovery channel doing the research. It was an Army lab, the same Army lab that tested MARPAT.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:55:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:
.. I wish they would make some alternative color combinations using the 6-color pattern.



Saudi Arabi did. Using a light tan, medium tan, light grey, light blue/grey, medium blue/grey and black in the 6-color desert pattern. The overall tone/color greatly resembles the grey ACU tone.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:45:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:07:23 PM EDT
As a former Marine, I'm a little biased towards the Marpats. I don't think that there will ever be a single pattern or color or whatever that will fit every possibility, and frankly I don't see why having to issue two different types of uniform (desert/jungle) is such a big deal.

I also don't care for all the velcro, either.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:48:36 PM EDT
I'm still not sold on the exclusion of black (or possibly a dark brown). While not a naturally occuring color in nature it is important to simulate depth.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:44:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottinhawaii:
I'm still not sold on the exclusion of black (or possibly a dark brown). While not a naturally occuring color in nature it is important to simulate depth.



Black also supposedly stands out really, really well when viewed through night vision optics, thus the exclusion of it from newer patterns. Quite a few threads here and on Lightfighter have covered the issue with black if you do some searching.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:16:14 AM EDT
Good thread, guys

Found this response from another source. What are your takes on it?

"ACU works great under movement and in CQC. Whens the last time we fought a true battle in a green lush area? Vetinam.

Its door to door, street to street fighting now. what colors rules the streets? soft light colors. such as tans and greys"
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 6:20:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:

Originally Posted By scottinhawaii:
I'm still not sold on the exclusion of black (or possibly a dark brown). While not a naturally occuring color in nature it is important to simulate depth.



Black also supposedly stands out really, really well when viewed through night vision optics, thus the exclusion of it from newer patterns. Quite a few threads here and on Lightfighter have covered the issue with black if you do some searching.



I can attest to this. Even through Gen I and II night vision optics it is easy to see the black in BDU cammies
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 11:55:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ajm1911:

Originally Posted By Dawg180:

Originally Posted By scottinhawaii:
I'm still not sold on the exclusion of black (or possibly a dark brown). While not a naturally occuring color in nature it is important to simulate depth.



Black also supposedly stands out really, really well when viewed through night vision optics, thus the exclusion of it from newer patterns. Quite a few threads here and on Lightfighter have covered the issue with black if you do some searching.



I can attest to this. Even through Gen I and II night vision optics it is easy to see the black in BDU cammies



Thus the current popoularirty of Crye Multicam- basically Woodland with no black...
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 1:04:58 PM EDT
I've used both the ACU and 3 color desert in Iraq and I like both. I do happen to like the setup on the ACU better with the velcro and pockets. The cut of the uniform in the shoulder area is much more comfortable especially with armor on. I also like how the pants cargo pockets can be fully opened instead of one end of the flap sewn down. The calf pockets I use to stash a powerbar or two for long nights. However I think that they went a bit overboard by making the nametape and US ARMY tape velcro. Very few troopers need this capability. Originally I read it was to reduce cost by not having to buy several tapes for each uniform. Ok I see a bit of that i suppose. But we also have to wear pin on badges which I detest for the same reason. As a paratrooper what a pain in the ass it is to have to take all that stuff off for every jump, and have to put it back on after every wash. I don't wear any of my badges here because it's too much hassle. Also in the long run it will cost more to replace metal badges multiple times that to buy and sew on once. Not sure what some pentagon idiot came up with that one but hopefully it will change unlike the black beret nightmare. I had a couple sets of DCUs modified to be similar to the ACU. The ACU pattern seems to work well here in town especially at night. Under NVGs it's hard to distinguish a trooper standing still. Just my .02
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:44:38 AM EDT
it is good to go,

no it will not blend into every envirernment, but it is much better than woodland for everything but the jungle
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:39:37 AM EDT
I like the Marpat better but I have seen the ACU's and they seem to almost turn into the color they are around. I think the lighter shade "reflets" the colors in a given environment and thus blends in
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:46:58 PM EDT
Video link for ACU

http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/2004/06/newacu.wmv
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:39:38 AM EDT
cool vid

I cant wait to get issued my set

I think its better than marpat, as marpat has black and is overall too dark for most envirernments IMHO
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:23:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 3:26:20 PM EDT by Dawg180]

Originally Posted By Tongo:
Video link for ACU

http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/2004/06/newacu.wmv



Very interesting. All the features seem to make a lot of sense, although woe to the first guy whose velcro starts to wear out and has a patch fall off before inspection!

I know a lot of people think buttons would have been better than zipper and velcro, but it seems to makes sense with the body armor. And you have a "belt and suspenders" with both velcro and a zipper for the front.

It would not suprise me if someone comes up with a clever way to replace the zipper with buttons...heck, they should run a strip of velcro on each side down the interior and make a zipper and a button "panel" that attaches to it for securing it however someone wants- plus it would make it a lot easier to replace the zipper when it breaks (which it will, and I bet that will always be the first thing to go on the blouse...)

One funny thing to note is how much the patches stick out on the ACU set he is wearing- both in color and in the weird profiles it causes from the stiffness of the velcro. Once again, I bet quite a few guys will lose patches as they bump and brush into things. Also note how much the Colonel contrasts against the background versus all the soldiers in woodland cammies- kind of ironic if you ask me. I still bet that within 5 years you will see a "temperate" and a "desert" coloration for the ACU's in replacement of the current color.

The ankle "mag pocket" is a real neat idea, although i wonder how much it will actually get used for a mag. Pen slots in the left sleeve is a nifty idea too....

Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:50:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I've heard people claim that at longer ranges camouflage patterns are no more effective than a grey or green set of bdus, depending on the background.


Some info: www.whitetail.com/camo1.html
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