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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/31/2005 10:56:51 AM EDT
The police model may make this a moot point but what have armorers done to improve dependability for service shotguns in terms of operation and internals?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:05:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:08:00 PM EDT by dfariswheel]
In the case of the 870......nothing.
The Remington 870 is the closest thing made to a "bullet proof" pump gun.
This is the reason why 95% of all American Law Enforcement use the 870.

There are things people do to the gun to enhance "reliability or durability", but in truth, most of this is nothing more than an urge to customize a gun.

Some people rush to replace the plastic magazine follower, "so it won't break, and jam the gun", but research has failed to turn up any verifiable cases of the follower breaking in the gun.
Since the follower isn't under any strain while in the gun, it doesn't break.

The "cheap plastic" magazine follower has been used in Remington Police guns for MANY years, with absolutely no problems.
If several hundred thousand street cops over 30 years can't break something, it's not an issue.

The best thing that can be done to an 870 is to shoot the gun. This will break it in, and the action will smooth up as it's used.

The simple fact is, unless you have a rough or defective 870, there isn't anything that can be done to it that will REALLY increase reliability or durability.

The rest, sights, stocks, extensions, slings, etc are personal preference or attempts to build Hollywood Range Toys.

There is no more reliable or durable a gun right out of the box than a Remington 870 Police.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:24:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:30:20 PM EDT by wildearp]
My plastic follower failed in my 870. It expanded and made my gun into a single shot a couple times. Now, it is documented, here on the Arfcom. When I called Remington, they recommended the one Scattergun Technology (now Wilson) sells. It is now in all three of my 870s, along with my 1100. I would call it a necessary change, unless you have an older (or perhaps newer) 870 with a metal follower. Remington did not offer one when mine failed.

Many safe queens or police cruiser queens will never see a failure. However, if you shoot your gun, get it hot, on a hot day, that plastic, hollow, thin piece of shit called a follower on many 870s will make your gun a single shot, or a club.

Second recommendation is the Wilson/scattergun safety. Not necessary, but it makes a hell of a difference, particularly with gloves.

The Wilson follower is a solid piece of glass impregnated plastic that will not expand, or jam in the tube. As much as I have tried to make it fail, it just keeps on ticking.

The Wilson kit for the follower comes with a Wolf spring and is very cheap. What is YOUR life worth?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 8:52:30 PM EDT
I have to say, that after 30 years, that's the first time I heard of the plastic follower failing that way, and for that reason.

Live and learn.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:03:29 AM EDT
Glad I have the wilson follower and spring. And mag extension

Here's a question, my stock stock is a bit too long and has no provision to attach a sling? What to do?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:47:29 AM EDT
Interesting - a few years ago I got my dad a choate (similar to the wilson design) follower for his 870 Express - when we dissembled it we found that the plastic follower had broken inside the tube!

I have an express and a police - one has a choate, the other, a wilson.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:34:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 11:35:01 AM EDT by dfariswheel]
drew5337

Over long stocks can be either cut down or replaced with a shorter stock as made by Speedfeed, Hogue, and others.

Adding sling swivels to shotguns is fairly easy.

Uncle Mike's sell a wide range of different types, for both extended magazine guns and non-extended.

www.unclemikes.com/
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:31:26 PM EDT
I've been a armorer for my department fro several years and we have 870's that have been in service here since the 1970's. The only thing I had to replace or repair is the D-springs for the trigger pins and some stocks that were bustred. It's a tough shotgun!!!!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:38:07 PM EDT
Bubba541:
That sounds odd that you have had to replace the springs. Can you give any reasons for that?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:51:47 PM EDT
I had a good friend that was an armorer for a large police agency.

He used to joke that his 870 spare parts inventory "Would fit into a shoe box, with enough room left over for a burger and fries".

He more seriously told me that over 95% of his repairs to the 870 involved replacing splintered wood, knocked off sights, bent or squashed barrels, cleaning rusty guns, and repairing guns that had been altered or damaged by officers screwing around with them on the off hours when they were bored.

In other words, MOST of the repairs were to fix guns damaged by the users.

He said cops WOULD use shotgun barrels as pry bars and to prevent doors from being slammed, stocks were used as battering rams, and guns used as clubs.

He also said the the 870 was a great gun, but they don't take too well to being run over by patrol cars, and left in wet trunks for months at a time and allowed to rust.

He said that to find an 870 that Honest to God just plain BROKE was so rare as to be almost unheard of.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:59:58 PM EDT
The only critical mods to a stock 870 are a mag extension (ammo is ALWAYS at a premium in shotguns) and, for older guns, the FlexTab shell lifter. The aftermarket mag follower and mag spring are also cheap insurance. Otherwise, leave it stock.

Only other mod I would consider: a $200 tax stamp and a hacksaw .
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:04:24 PM EDT
You might do well to surf some of the three gun shooter websites and see what they are using to keep them running at high speed. I am too lazy to look myself............
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:02:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:04:44 AM EDT by Bubba541]
TO Wetterman -----THe D-spring is the one that hold the trigger pins in the receiver. If you pull out the trigger group and look on the left and right sides where the pins go through you should see them. If you have a trigger pin that that won't stay in you've lost the D-spring.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:16:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:17:28 AM EDT by glenn_r]
The only problems we've had are from cheap aftermarket magazine extensions the previous armorer put on some guns. I've taken them off. The factory Remington tube has been fine, but we've since cut down half the guns to 14".

I had two DuraCoated because they were rusting despite scheduled cleanings.

Otherwise, the things just keep ticking along. Unlike the Sigmas and Olympic Arms AR's the previous armorer also purchased
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:12:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubba541:
TO Wetterman -----THe D-spring is the one that hold the trigger pins in the receiver. If you pull out the trigger group and look on the left and right sides where the pins go through you should see them. If you have a trigger pin that that won't stay in you've lost the D-spring.



I know what they are. I was just wondering how one could lose them.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:30:38 AM EDT
I believe they just wear out with age and loose tension. More likely Deputy's have been removing them and wearing them out in doing so. I have seen some that as soon as the trigger assembly is removed the springs fall out.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 6:59:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drew5337:
Glad I have the wilson follower and spring. And mag extension

Here's a question, my stock stock is a bit too long and has no provision to attach a sling? What to do?



Get a "Speed Feed" youth model. Its length of pull is 1" shorter than standard. I believe it's 13".

Everyone who has ever tried the shorter stock loves it. Even the taller guys. Quicker to the shoulder, less cahnce of hanging up, easier to use with a vest etc.

Tack
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 11:30:03 AM EDT
If you end up going with the budget express or marine magnum, replace the lock in the safety--it can twist and lock up without the key and the stamped metal keys are easy to bend/break.

-Chad
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 11:40:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By moorerwc:
If you end up going with the budget express or marine magnum, replace the lock in the safety--it can twist and lock up without the key and the stamped metal keys are easy to bend/break.

-Chad



Where can I replace the lock and the stamped metal keys?

thanks!
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 12:03:45 PM EDT
You have to buy a new "Old style" non-locking safety button.
These can be bought from:

www.e-gunparts.com

And a number of other sources.

There's some uncertainty about just what has to be done to do a replacement.

Some people are saying that all you have to do is remove the locking safety and replace it with a non-locking safety button.

Some people say you have to buy a different spring and possibly do a slight mod to the gun.

Since I retired before the locking safety introduction, I simply don't know which it it.

However, Remington has discontinued the locking safety, and new guns are leaving the factory with the old style non-locking safety.

So, just make SURE you get a factory-fresh gun, and it'll have the old style safety.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:34:13 PM EDT

No BS on followers that can jam.

I had a defective magazine follower too! It was silver plastic. Can't remember if it was my 870 or my 11-87 special purpose. A local remingtion authorized shop replaced it. He said he's seen a few of those. They can wedge out and seize leaving you w/o a reload.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:20:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
You have to buy a new "Old style" non-locking safety button.
These can be bought from:

www.e-gunparts.com

And a number of other sources.

There's some uncertainty about just what has to be done to do a replacement.

Some people are saying that all you have to do is remove the locking safety and replace it with a non-locking safety button.

Some people say you have to buy a different spring and possibly do a slight mod to the gun.

Since I retired before the locking safety introduction, I simply don't know which it it.

However, Remington has discontinued the locking safety, and new guns are leaving the factory with the old style non-locking safety.

So, just make SURE you get a factory-fresh gun, and it'll have the old style safety.



I emailed Remington and they said that although they are discontinuing the locking safety on their rifles, they are NOT discontinuing them on their shotguns.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:39:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wildearp:
My plastic follower failed in my 870. It expanded and made my gun into a single shot a couple times. Now, it is documented, here on the Arfcom. When I called Remington, they recommended the one Scattergun Technology (now Wilson) sells. It is now in all three of my 870s, along with my 1100. I would call it a necessary change, unless you have an older (or perhaps newer) 870 with a metal follower. Remington did not offer one when mine failed.

Many safe queens or police cruiser queens will never see a failure. However, if you shoot your gun, get it hot, on a hot day, that plastic, hollow, thin piece of shit called a follower on many 870s will make your gun a single shot, or a club.

Second recommendation is the Wilson/scattergun safety. Not necessary, but it makes a hell of a difference, particularly with gloves.

The Wilson follower is a solid piece of glass impregnated plastic that will not expand, or jam in the tube. As much as I have tried to make it fail, it just keeps on ticking.

The Wilson kit for the follower comes with a Wolf spring and is very cheap. What is YOUR life worth?



+1 on the follower sticking. I am an avid duck hunter and hunted with the 870 hard for about 3 seasons when I lived in MS. Couple a three cases of shells a season in nasty weather and conditions. I replaced it with the Scattergun Tech mag follower, but soon after switched to the NOVA for waterfowl, so I can't give a fair 1st hand account of the Scattergun one.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:05:22 PM EDT
I'm our department's 870 armorer and we have about 40 guns in service. They are pretty old/abused and the breakage I've seen over the years were a weakened ejector spring, a few loose shell latches, a chipped extractor, and some broken rear sight leafs. These are pretty easy fixes if you have the proper tools and a little training. Otherwise, they just need a good thorough cleaning once a year if they are otherwise unused. If one of the guys brings a problem to my attention the gun comes out of service for a checkup.

I rotate the guns through a cleaning/maintenance shcedule where they are detail-stripped, cleaned in an ultra-sonic, and given a good coat of Rem-oil and FP-10 in the necessary places. For the most part, these guns have been about as reliable as you could ask for.

I have taken no additional measures to increase reliability and have never had a plastic follower fail in any way.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:37:32 AM EDT
It's not necessarily a "necessity", but I replaced the locking safety button on my 870HD with a larger safety from Wilson. It is a simple remove and replace and it allows me to push off the safety with the side of my trigger finger rather than having to use the tip. That and the magazine follower are about it. If you want to reduce the possibility of rust, get it coated. Speedfeed makes great stocks. I can't comment on the ones with shell holders as I've always been suspicious of them. I have tried the short youth stock, which is certainly better than the full size, and the pistol gripped tactical stock. That is nice if you can't keep from wrapping your thumb around the stock and keep banging yourself in the lip during recoil!

I don't like the feel of the pistol grip on the IV stock, but I haven't found a solution yet. Too flat on the front.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:25:16 PM EDT
I'm happy to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks the SF IV's pistol grip feels funky. I'm getting used to it, but I sure wish they'd have rounded it off a bit more. I was thinking about taking a rasp to it, but I'm afraid it will weaken it too much.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:15:44 PM EDT
I recomend replacing the locking safety with the Vang Big Head Safety. I really like mine. The only other things I have done so far to my Marine Magnum is the Vang follower and a Wilson Scattergun front sling mount. the factory mounted on the barrel/mag clamp allows the sling to get twisted up because it turns completely around. I have never understood why they think that it is a good idea.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:15:19 PM EDT
We used to run factory remington top folding stocks on our 870s but the plastic pistol grips seem to get brittle with age and most have shattered in the users hands. Replaced them with ATI top folders (wasn't my choice!) but they don't last long either. The butt ends up folding forward when firing and the pointy rear end of the stock slams into the shoulder. Believe me it hurts!!!

Another one not mentioned here is broken firing pin springs. Seen a few of them; the gun will still fire......sometimes. Confuses the hell out of the operators.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 1:59:01 AM EDT
BA/UU/R
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:20:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wildearp:
The Wilson follower is a solid piece of glass impregnated plastic that will not expand, or jam in the tube. As much as I have tried to make it fail, it just keeps on ticking.worth?



Hans Vang at Vang Comp Systems makes one out of stainless steel.
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