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Posted: 10/10/2004 3:00:48 PM EST
I'm thinking about picking up a $500 service grade Springfield Amory M1 through the CMP. I'm hoping I might be able to get into some sort of rifle competition with it next summer (never competed in any sort of rifle competition before). What kind of accuracy are these guns capable of (100 yard groups)? Are they decent enough to compete with in high power service rifle competition? Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 3:05:19 PM EST
I suggest getting one while they are available. Accuracy depends on the components and the components depend on what the armorer had available.

If it doesn't function well send it back in with a description of the problems.

The rest is up to you .

MT
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 3:20:56 PM EST
I don't think standard Service Grade M1's will fill the bill for High Power competition...most guys now days are using modified AR's for that. A few still use the M14/M1A platform, though.

The M1's are great for John C. Garand Matches, though...those are fired with "as issued" rifles & ammo, no "Match Grade" modifications allowed. They can be quite fun, I'm told.

Hopefully, someone else can provide you with more details than I can.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 4:19:22 PM EST
I'm not postive if I would use this gun for match or not (probably just get an match upper for my AR) but I'm still curious on what kind of accuracy they are capable of. Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 4:23:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 5:45:53 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
You are probably looking at minute of angle unless the barrel is worn out. I would still shoot it in a Match.

Edit: You don't have to shoot in a Match to beat the other participants...you can shoot to beat your previouse best. There are quite a few 100yrd ranges to start on.

MT
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 4:57:19 PM EST
The stock barrel will not put you in the hunt for HP. The problem is that the military throat lead is too long, and you don't have room in the mag/receiver for longer AOL loading (you can still hand load longer rounds, but is a PITA in the standing position when slung up tight, and the clock ticking).
Note: Reloading dies can be tweaked to deal with the looser chamber dimensions on the G.I barrel (side wall).

On the stock rig with a good barrel, your looking at 4"-6" groups. Tailoring the loads, and correctly fitting parts on the rifle will drop you down in the 2"-3" groups (that just the rifle, you on the other hands may still be at 6" groups)

The solution is to chamber in 308 auto match chamber with a heaver barrel (less likely to overheat during strings), which allows longer AOL loads since the 308 is shorter than the 30-06. This on a full-blown NM build up will put the rifle at under MOA groups (still just what the rifle will do, and not you). On average, you will have dropped at least $1500 in the rifle, but your still in the iron man class of shooter due to recoil.

Now the facts, HP is shoot to 600 yards, and the AR's dominate the class due to less recoil and better performance of the new 223 bullets (tips) being offered. Rifles like the Garand and M-14's are used every once in a while, but seldom find their way into the winner circle.

Now, to keep the Garand alive in the HP shooting circles, CMP introduced the JG matches. Here the rifles parts can be fitted, but still have to have the factory dimensions/ sights that were service issued (read no bull barrels hidden under the DCM float tube, nor NM sights. A stock CMP garand rifle will serve you well until you start to hit the master class (the point that you can now out shoot the rifle, Read at this point you have replaced the barrel a few times).
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:40:03 PM EST
Thanks for the info guys. Regardless if I'm gonna use this rifle for match use I still want to get one. I've always wanted one and think I should try to get one before they run out of them.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:11:36 PM EST
Good plan,
Currently I have a CMP HRA SG that just came back from being parkerized by Warbird sitting next to a New Boyd Lam stock on the bench just waiting for me to get home and complete the build.



Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:13:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dano523:
Good plan,
Currently I have a CMP HRA SG that just came back from being parkerized by Warbird sitting next to a New Boyd Lam stock on the bench just waiting for me to get home and complete the build.



Sweet! Take some pics if you can. I would like to see how it turns out.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:38:18 PM EST
My HRA RACK (barely) grade will hold the 9ring at 200 yards with ease, and I am FAR from being anything other than a mediocre shot.

I completely stink at off-hand, yet my last JCG match I ended up with 423-3x out of 500 poss. points.

My SA service grade I've only shot at 100yards and it will hold about 2" groups when I can do my part.

Tim
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:43:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:44:14 PM EST by georgestrings]
Another idea would be to buy one of the rack grade Greeks, and then have it re-barreled... I picked up a rack grade HRA Greek recently with this idea in mind, and have been shooting it a little bit, before deciding on the barrel... I've only been out with it twice, but it seems to shoot somewhere between 2-3MOA - which, with irons still isn't bad... I'm going to shoot it some more, and if I can get it to consistantly shoot 2MOA or so, I'll keep shooting the barrel it came with 'til it's shot out...

Function has been 100%, BTW - I've shot a few Garands before, but this is my 1st to own... On a good day, I can shoot MOA with my Bushmaster, and my FAL about half the time, or better - just to put things in context...


- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 1:31:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:52:06 AM EST
mh454,

To answer your original question....

USGI Arsenal accuracy spec for the M1 rifle was "8 shots at 100 yds 4 inches or less with M2 ball ammo".

Most of the Service Grade CMP M1's are still capable of this, as long as the action still fits tightly into the stock. Wood compression over 40-50-60 years can loosen things up a wee bit on some of them.

Expect most Service Grade M1's to shoot between 3 and 4 MOA at 100 with M2. There are some jewels that will shoot under 2.0 MOA with M2 but those are rare. Most will do a bit better with Match grade ammo, but don't expect 1.0 MOA from any of them. That would be a VERY rare bird.

In order to be competitive in NRA Service Rifle or in CMP-EIC events an M1 needs a full Match Upgrade. This entails a new commercial barrel, NM sights, full bedding, front end unitizing, and a trigger job. This will bring the old warhorse up into the 1.0-1.5 MOA range at 100 and still under 2.0 MOA out to 600 yds.

The only problem is, and this has already been related, recoil is the big factor in the rapids, and the AR15 takes the cake here. While a full Match job on an M1 will make the RIFLE compeititive Across the Course, the shooter still has to have the Moxie (during rapid fire) to keep'em in the 10 ring under the heavier recoil of the .30 cal loads.

I regularly shoot a .308 M1 Match Grade Across the Course. It is competitive with the AR's in the slow fire events, but in rapids I REALLY have to hold hard to keep up. I will admit that my scores are better with the AR, but for me the M1 is the rifle I love so that's why I keep shooting it.

You can see this rifle and some of my CMP M1 collection at: Swampy's Stuff page

Just my thoughts...

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:01:53 PM EST
Hey guys, do the garand matches allow 03's or for that matter 17's?? Just curious because my dad's looking to get a cmp garand and I got my eye on the 03a3. According to the website they are in good condition. I'd prefer a 1917 and they have a small run right now but, they don't speak very highly of the quality of them. And they say this run of the 03's may be the last. So do they allow the bolt guns in the garand match?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:33:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By JJREA:
Hey guys, do the garand matches allow 03's or for that matter 17's?? Just curious because my dad's looking to get a cmp garand and I got my eye on the 03a3. According to the website they are in good condition. I'd prefer a 1917 and they have a small run right now but, they don't speak very highly of the quality of them. And they say this run of the 03's may be the last. So do they allow the bolt guns in the garand match?



Yes. And carbines and Johnsons as well. I've shot the JCG Match at Perry five of the last six years. First two with a 17. Next two with a carbine. Last one with a Garand. Shot best with the Garand for what its worth.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:51:29 PM EST
Can you shoot in a John C. Garand match with an M-1 rebarreled to .308?

Are there any service rifle competitions that you can shoot at with an M-1 rebarreled to .308?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:08:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 3:12:50 AM EST
natedog asked:


Can you shoot in a John C. Garand match with an M-1 rebarreled to .308?


Simply... NO. Must be in 30-06 chamber as ammo is issued to all competitors from the same supply.


Are there any service rifle competitions that you can shoot at with an M-1 rebarreled to .308?


YES... Any CMP-EIC (aka "Leg Match") or NRA Service Rifle event.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
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