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Posted: 9/9/2009 9:32:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2009 9:35:46 AM EST by mattal21]
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 9:34:30 AM EST
Lahti L39 20mm
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 12:16:46 PM EST
heres anzio iron works version

Link Posted: 9/9/2009 12:17:32 PM EST
From left to right: .223, .338 lapua, 50BMG, 20MM Vulcan

Link Posted: 9/9/2009 1:01:31 PM EST
The Lahti fires a 20x138B (belted cartridge) - not the 20x102mm Vulcan.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 1:24:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2009 1:26:02 PM EST by nmmi9100]
Originally Posted By osprey21:
The Lahti fires a 20x138B (belted cartridge) - not the 20x102mm Vulcan.


+1. But BOTH are very nice...as is a 20mm Solothurn. Both the Solothurn & Lahti are Semi-Auto!!!

-David
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 3:10:16 PM EST
It's been awhile from last time I read U.C. by John Ross. But if I remember correctly the Solothurn was German made, longer and heavier. But then too, it had a quick change barrel, thus could be broken down for easier transporting. It also had what could be called standard bi-pod. Where as the Lahti is made by the Fins and has ski like feet on its bi-pod for use in snow.

Can you just imagine a young boy shooting a monster like that? Per the character in U.C.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 5:30:00 PM EST
That is a beautiful gun! I need to get one!!!!
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 6:43:14 PM EST
Who's got the old assed image from a magazine of the Slothurn's that were imported into the US for something insanely cheap as like 800 dollars back in the 60s?

Image is some place on my hard drive but I'm not sure where. Talk about an insane investment opportunity.
Link Posted: 9/10/2009 7:57:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 10:00:19 AM EST
Solothurn is a city in Switzerland. The 20mm guns of the same name were made there, by the Swiss, and sold to the Germans. Switzerland remained neutral during the war.

There were versions of the Lahti which were converted to FULL AUTO. They also had a "tree mount" that perched the gun on top of a sawn off small tree (think xmas tree) for anti-aircraft use against unsuspecting, slow, low-flying Russian attack planes (I am sure they surprised a few pilots).

Both 20mm guns are considered destructive devices and are controlled, Title II firearms under the NFA (incorporated into the GCA 68).
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 3:35:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 3:36:01 PM EST by Max-Paul]
CBR900, Thanks for the info. Knew it was German, but did not know that the swiss made them and then sold them to Germany. Again thanks for that bit of history.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 4:31:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2009 4:33:03 AM EST by imtheflash]

Originally Posted By KD185:
heres anzio iron works version

http://www.anzioironworks.com/images/20mm022standingatangle-FP.jpg

Oh yes, someday it will be mine



Dave, think they'll let me shoot this at the WC?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:36:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By imtheflash:

Originally Posted By KD185:
heres anzio iron works version

http://www.anzioironworks.com/images/20mm022standingatangle-FP.jpg

Oh yes, someday it will be mine

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/imtheflash/weapons/knob%20creek/STA70500.jpg

Dave, think they'll let me shoot this at the WC?


Bring a DD 20mm and I'll figure out how to MAKE them let you shoot it. Hell, we've got the unofficial "600 yd Practical Class" and the unofficial "Semi-auto Clas". Sure shouldn't be a problem to have Destructive Device Class... Ammo might eat your lunch though... Still, it's legal to hunt wild pigs with in Texas!!!!!!

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 12:23:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
Originally Posted By imtheflash:

Originally Posted By KD185:
heres anzio iron works version

http://www.anzioironworks.com/images/20mm022standingatangle-FP.jpg

Oh yes, someday it will be mine

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/imtheflash/weapons/knob%20creek/STA70500.jpg

Dave, think they'll let me shoot this at the WC?


Bring a DD 20mm and I'll figure out how to MAKE them let you shoot it. Hell, we've got the unofficial "600 yd Practical Class" and the unofficial "Semi-auto Clas". Sure shouldn't be a problem to have Destructive Device Class... Ammo might eat your lunch though... Still, it's legal to hunt wild pigs with in Texas!!!!

-David
Edgewood, NM


Can anyone say pulled pork? I just cant imagine what would be left of the wild pig after getting hit with a 20mm projo. imtheflash, you'll have to post images of your pig shoot once you get your 20mm rifle. There I said it, so it must be true that you'll get one, one day.. Got my finger crossed for you.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 3:16:26 PM EST
I'll keep buying lotto tickets
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:24:46 PM EST
Now that I got my M82 I have been looking at the bigger guns too! They said that the 20mm ammo is only $7-$9 a round .... that's not too bad considering that only amounts to 2 rounds of .50 BMG Barret Ammo. Instead of buying the 10 round Barrett boxes you can buy the 5 round 20mm boxes HAHA. Same price to boot

The real question is does anyone make a reloading press for the 20mm ... I'm sure the Corbin could do it .... I guess the better question is does anyone make dies. You could get someone to turn you some bullets and away you go!!!! Bet those turned projectiles would cost an arm and a leg though!!!

Whats up with the blue tips anyway? Why don't they have traditional bullets loaded in them?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 8:10:22 PM EST
Hollywood Engineering makes presses and dies for 20mm Vulcan.

Where there's a buck, there's a way.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 2:24:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sgt_Cottle:
Now that I got my M82 I have been looking at the bigger guns too! They said that the 20mm ammo is only $7-$9 a round .... that's not too bad considering that only amounts to 2 rounds of .50 BMG Barret Ammo. Instead of buying the 10 round Barrett boxes you can buy the 5 round 20mm boxes HAHA. Same price to boot

The real question is does anyone make a reloading press for the 20mm ... I'm sure the Corbin could do it .... I guess the better question is does anyone make dies. You could get someone to turn you some bullets and away you go!!!! Bet those turned projectiles would cost an arm and a leg though!!!

Whats up with the blue tips anyway? Why don't they have traditional bullets loaded in them?


Sources familiar with the cartridge say that it can be loaded for closer to $2/round.

As for the blue tip, they're inert training rounds. It's far, far cheaper to shoot surplus training projectiles than to try to machine up new ones (and for some odd reason, there just isn't a large supply of surplus'd HE projos lying around...).
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 4:17:39 AM EST
CH4D also makes dies for the 20mm Vulcan. IIRC they cost a little over $400, and the $700+ Corbin will work too. I also joking asked Dave at Lehigh bullets and design a while back if he could make a 20mm projo, but he never answered me back, lol.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:32:58 AM EST
Yep. Blue bullets are training rounds. Any HE rounds (or bullets) are, by themselves, a Destructive Device and would EACH transfer on a $200 tax stamp...one tax stamp PER ROUND or BULLET.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:17:50 PM EST
Why would a regular old bullet be considered a DD? if so why isn't the training round considered a DD then?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:54:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 5:56:09 PM EST by uglygun]
Originally Posted By Sgt_Cottle:
Why would a regular old bullet be considered a DD? if so why isn't the training round considered a DD then?




Consider what was said again, "HE" meaning high explosive. Same as an M203 round.


I would LOVE to get this rifle if it weren't for the fact that I live in California. Something about having maybe 100-200 rounds of that stuff on tap and occasionally going out to lob a piece of small artillery down range would be really fun.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:08:29 PM EST
So if you had some regular ball bullets made up then they wouldn't be considered a DD then? Just curious ....
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 12:48:10 AM EST
i believe anything larger than bmg is considered a DD
doesn't matter if its inert, ball, HE, etc etc
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:35:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 7:41:03 AM EST by jestertoo]
From BATFE:

A DD is:

1) any explosive, incendiary or poison gas
A) bomb
B) grenade
C) rocket having propellant charge of more than four
ounces
D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of
more than one-quarter ounce
E) mine, or
F) similar device
2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or
may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the
action of a explosive or other propellant, the barrel or
barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in
diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the


So, BALL ammo no matter the diameter, as long as it doesn't have more than 1/4oz (435 grains) of incendiary compound are NOT Destructive devices.

J
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:48:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
So, BALL ammo no matter the diameter, as long as it doesn't have more than 1/4oz (435 grains) of incendiary compound are NOT Destructive devices.
J


+1. In cases of ammo, it has to have more than 1/4 oz of explosive to be a DD in it's own right. However, any firearm that discharges a non-muzzleloading projectile bigger than 0.50 inches is a DD...the ammo just isn't.

-David
Edgewood, NM

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:45:13 AM EST
David,

Is some of the larger African hunting guns considered DDs? The 600 Nitro I believe is one of them that is larger than the 50 BMG ... just curious.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:07:30 AM EST
The .600 Nitro rifles as well as other large caliber sporting rifles are not DD's.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:27:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sgt_Cottle:
David,

Is some of the larger African hunting guns considered DDs? The 600 Nitro I believe is one of them that is larger than the 50 BMG ... just curious.



ATF has a "Sporting Use Test" that can administratively determine if a firearm doesn't fall under the NFA...shotguns and big bore African rifles have been exempted in this way. The BS thing is that ATF gets to make the determination. That's how they screwed folks on that assault shotgun..."the Street Sweeper"...they changed it from being a shotgun to a DD via the "Sporting Use Test".

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:46:09 AM EST
How do cannon (like the Civil War reenactors use) fall under that ruling?

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 1:52:02 PM EST
By being muzzle loaders and not having fixed ammo.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:05:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
By being muzzle loaders and not having fixed ammo.


Yep. Blackpowder cannon are replicas of pre-1898 guns which do not used fixed ammunition. That makes them a non DD...not even a firearm by the federal definition.

Now if you use SHELL (the round explosive projectiles full of powder that blow up), that projectile is likely a DD. But for solid shot & cannister, it's not NFA controlled.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 4:35:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sgt_Cottle:
So if you had some regular ball bullets made up then they wouldn't be considered a DD then? Just curious ....

The gun is a DD b/c it's >.5" but regular ball ammo is not regulated

any HE (High Explosive) rounds are considered DDs in and of themselves, because they're explosives.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:49:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By nmmi9100:
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
By being muzzle loaders and not having fixed ammo.


Yep. Blackpowder cannon are replicas of pre-1898 guns which do not used fixed ammunition. That makes them a non DD...not even a firearm by the federal definition.

Now if you use SHELL (the round explosive projectiles full of powder that blow up), that projectile is likely a DD. But for solid shot & cannister, it's not NFA controlled.

-David
Edgewood, NM


I thought that might be the case. I've always wanted a cannon, full size. My first use would be shooting down
the large wolf trees I can't get near witha chainsaw :) I looked at the 20mm rifles and decided that unless
the lottery gods gift me, I'll stick with the .50bmg as it's already hard enough on my ammo budget.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:49:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 5:57:57 AM EST by jestertoo]
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Originally Posted By Sgt_Cottle:
So if you had some regular ball bullets made up then they wouldn't be considered a DD then? Just curious ....

The gun is a DD b/c it's >.5" but regular ball ammo is not regulated

any HE (High Explosive) rounds are considered DDs in and of themselves, because they're explosives.



You can have an HE round with less than 1/4oz of explosive and it's not a destructive device. Now, possession of the materials to make such rounds can be 1) controlled by hazardous materials laws and 2) implied as constructive intent to make DD rounds > .25oz. YMMV.

Also, you can have a breech loading cannon that uses black powder bags. The Cali guys are shooting 20+mm cannons this way.
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